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  This is one of the worst feelings i ever had  (Read 2359 times)
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Offline matheus23

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« Reply #30 - Posted 2014-06-16 20:41:41 »

Nobody will really arrest you watching these, unless you are really heavily consuming them or in an important position.
Man.  Think again.  The vast majority of the world's prison population is "small fish".  And a fair number probably thought they were safe because of that.

The internet provides free flow of information: You can come accross such sites just by clicking accidentally on a troll link, getting computer viruses, etc.
So you're telling me that if my grandparents would get a virus that would bomb thier PC with such sites then the police would just appear one day in front of their house and arrest them? Drenius is right, so man, think again. Wink

So there is that thread named "This is one of the worst feelings i ever had" in my recent unread posts. So I click on it and find a link to or a video of something... not named in this thread, but pretty bad, so bad it could get me into jail.

So, Riven, did you destroy your harddrive?

I agree with Panda, I don't think this is getting you into trouble in any way, unless you do something that makes some politicians not like you Wink

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Offline Riven
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« Reply #31 - Posted 2014-06-17 04:33:53 »

@matheus23: your reconstruction of events is inaccurate.

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Offline Roquen
« Reply #32 - Posted 2014-06-17 05:40:56 »

You can come accross such sites just by clicking accidentally on a troll link, getting computer viruses, etc.
So you're telling me that if my grandparents would get a virus that would bomb thier PC with such sites then the police would just appear one day in front of their house and arrest them? Drenius is right, so man, think again. Wink
Doesn't compare.  You wouldn't get an "adware" program for this kind of material by accident.  I'd be shocked if an adware for this kind of stuff exists because that would be idiotic. Statistically 100% of adware is installed when a user is looking for illegal content, so if it does exist then grandma or grandpa is looking for some really f**ked up shit.  And yes if they would be legally responsible in most countries if this situation occurred and they did not inform the proper authorities.  Minimally non-reporting witness up to part of a conspiracy.  Conspiracy laws are typically become very wide in recent years.

I agree with Panda, I don't think this is getting you into trouble in any way, unless you do something that makes some politicians not like you Wink

WTF?  Given the popularity of semi-realistic legal procedure being placed in series and such, you'd think you kids might have a reasonable-ish understand of law basics.

Quote
..troubles because of these things, thank you but it can't happened, like it literally can't, beside that my country doesn't have any strict internet law .... i am 100% sure that none of these content is in my hard disk now,
I'm 100% sure there are still traces.  Even if you don't think you've done anything illegal...run a 35-pass Gutmann on all of the empty space.  It'll only cost you some electricity.

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Offline matheus23

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« Reply #33 - Posted 2014-06-17 08:53:09 »

@matheus23: your reconstruction of events is inaccurate.
Yeah, well, my thought was that you must have seen it / have it on your harddrive (cache) because you clicked on this topic without the media being cut off at that time.

I agree with Panda, I don't think this is getting you into trouble in any way, unless you do something that makes some politicians not like you Wink

WTF?  Given the popularity of semi-realistic legal procedure being placed in series and such, you'd think you kids might have a reasonable-ish understand of law basics.

What do you mean by semi-realistic legal procedure?

I just find it hard to believe, that (hypothetically) someone, who clicked on a link from a friend that shows such media, is arrested, even though he didn't even know what was behind that link and it was not his intention to watch something like that at all.

I don't think that possession alone makes you guilty.

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Offline Herjan
« Reply #34 - Posted 2014-06-17 09:21:03 »

What do you mean by semi-realistic legal procedure?

He meant theater (simulated lawsuits)

Offline Roquen
« Reply #35 - Posted 2014-06-17 09:23:58 »

Said hypothetically person comes upon evidence of a crime.  Most modernish legal systems will require that a citizen that comes on such must report it the to proper authorities.  This is reasonable.  To not do so will committing a crime.  Depending on the legal system in question such person can be consider to be part of a conspiracy by their act.  Thus can be guilty of aiding on on-going criminal enterprise and therefore can have legal liability of all actions the original authors perform afterwards.  Again reasonably since they knew of the original act and by non-action allow for future actions.  It would be hard to argue:  I didn't think they'd do anything like that again!  How shocking!!??

Let's change topics.  Let's say I bought a lotto ticket and won a modest amount of 10K (USD or Euros).  I'm approached by someone who wants to buy the ticket off of me for 11K.  Hey I don't have to pay taxes and get more!  I'm in!!  They're buying it as a present for <fill-in-the-blank> so they <some-excuse>.  If I do, I'm committing an illegal act.  Most likely the purpose is money laundering.  Now let's say that the really business behind was drugs and the group in question has committed at least one murder.  I'm legally liable (again in most modernish systems) for acts performed by this enterprise:  selling drugs, murder, tax evasion.  Even though I had no way of know any of these events have occurred or are on-going.  By commit my illegal act I become part on an ongoing criminal conspiracy.

Ok.  You kids are saying the probability isn't very high that the hypothetically person(s) will be arrested and tried.  You are correct.  So the question becomes:  what's your risk tolerance?  Ignore the potential for a very long time in a very bad place because the probabilities are low?  My risk tolerance here is about zero.  Low probability events happen all the time.  I've no interest in being a side-bar article in a newspaper or the subject of some short documentary.  Thanks all the same.
Offline matheus23

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« Reply #36 - Posted 2014-06-17 09:37:10 »

Okay thanks Roquen for clearing some things up for me.

And no, I know that semi-realistic simulated lawsuits are semi-realistic.
Also, I only know one of them off the top of my head right now and it's years ago that I saw that one.
(Though I'm not sure we're talking about the same trash Cheesy )

So yeah your examples make sense, and yep, I'm by no means a lawyer and definitely not educated in that way.

Said hypothetically person comes upon evidence of a crime.  Most modernish legal systems will require that a citizen that comes on such must report it the to proper authorities.  This is reasonable.  To not do so will committing a crime.  Depending on the legal system in question such person can be consider to be part of a conspiracy by their act.  Thus can be guilty of aiding on on-going criminal enterprise and therefore can have legal liability of all actions the original authors perform afterwards.  Again reasonably since they knew of the original act and by non-action allow for future actions.  It would be hard to argue:  I didn't think they'd do anything like that again!  How shocking!!??

So why is your advice to "destroy the harddrive", instead of "destroy the harddrive and report it to proper authorities"?

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Offline Roquen
« Reply #37 - Posted 2014-06-17 09:51:32 »

Since OP had no trouble finding the material in question it's highly likely that some policing authority is aware of it's existence.  So I'm not too worried about the "doing the right thing" side of it.  Contacting the authorities might lead to nothing or a series of very long and not-too-fun interviews.  So my view is be an egoist and protect yourself.
Offline Grunnt

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« Reply #38 - Posted 2014-06-17 11:03:53 »

Things like this show the dark side of privacy that hardly ever comes up in discussions about the topic. Yeah, privacy is good and important in many ways, allowing you to experiment, develop intimate relationships and protecting you from surveillance by government entities. However, privacy is also bad in some ways, when it is protection for domestic violence, all forms of abuse and crime.

I have mixed feelings about things like the Tor project. Yeah it enables activists and journalists to escape surveillance by opressive regimes. But it also enables criminals and people who are sick in the head to communicate, coordinate, exchange materials etcetera through the dark net. There was a time in which I wished that the internet was all like the (theoretically optimal) Tor network: 100% anonimity for everyone. However, these days I think that in many ways anonimity is not such a great thing. See e.g. dark net, anonymous comments on many sites, haters, trolls, etcetera. Maybe the solution for the privacy issue is not a technical one (like Tor) but a political and legal one: we need a government that strikes a good balance between respecting and protecting privacy, and limiting privacy where it is needed.

My 2c...

Offline alaslipknot
« Reply #39 - Posted 2014-06-17 11:55:03 »

==> Visiting this may put you in dangers Vs no it wont

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/moSFlvxnbgk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/moSFlvxnbgk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>



Maybe the solution for the privacy issue is not a technical one (like Tor) but a political and legal one: we need a government that strikes a good balance between respecting and protecting privacy, and limiting privacy where it is needed.

but then  there is  :
Quote
Since OP had no trouble finding the material in question it's highly likely that some policing authority is aware of it's existence.

My guess is that "the powerful" are aware of everything there (that is for sure) but i believe that they have all the means to stop these things from happening but they don't cause they want to give their enemies the illusion of being 100% protected and stop them when they need to, i really don't believe that this "Tor project" is made by "the people".   

"It's not at all important to get it right the first time. It's vitally important to get it right the last time."
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