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  The hunt for the lost rainbow jewels  (Read 26971 times)
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Offline Varkas
« Reply #60 - Posted 2014-02-23 23:20:18 »

I've actually managed to spend some hours on the project again ... not much progress, but still. I've managed to give magic items color hues. So far I've defined:

add life - yellowish green
add mana - blue

add damage - orange
add defense - brown

resist fire - red
resist ice - cyan
resist lightning - yellow
resist poison - blueish green
resist fear - white
resist confusion - purple

Also I've been adding some environmental stats. Part of the values is natural for the place, but they can be altered by spells (eg. cold + humid + fireball -> hot + dry)

Ground status: solid dry, solid moist, swamp, water, ice, lava ...
Static: Uncharged, Charged, Highly charged, Sparking ...
Air: Dry, humid, dusty, steamy ...

The exact conditions may change. This is just a design sketch so far, somewhat matching the elemtal magic effect of fire, ice, lightning.

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #61 - Posted 2014-02-24 15:17:20 »

The item hues make the inventory colorful, but I'm not sure if it actually looks good. On the other hand the hue and saturation give some immediate information about the magic effect and the strength of the effect (you'll learn that quickly while playing):

But I've got a question about item prefixes and postfixes.

Would you like to have different names for weaker and stronger mods for the same effect, e.g. blade weapon prefixes:

"sharp" +1..15% damage to blades
"slicing" +16..30% damage to blades
"vorpal" +31..45% damage to blades

or rather one prefix "vorpal" with a range of 1..45% risen damage? The item color saturation will give a hint of the effect power anyways.

I don't think it add much to have a lot of different affixes, but maybe I'm missing something.

PS: Yet another question - at the moment there is poison damge included, but that is just another damage type to the PC. I wonder if I should replace this by acid, which also harms the equipment. Do you think damage to the equipment is a good feature for an RPG, or is it just annoying to need repairs or even replacements of items after a fight with acid-based enemies? Different materials will have different natural acid resistances, e.g. noble metals resist more, iron less.

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Offline Drenius
« Reply #62 - Posted 2014-02-24 16:21:30 »

Second: Would Give it a try.
First: No idea.
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Offline Varkas
« Reply #63 - Posted 2014-02-26 11:17:59 »

I'm still feeling uncertain about the acid and item corrosion idea. It adds some variety, but I imagine that mosters with acid attacks or acidic monsters (corrodable weapons will ge damaged if you strike them) will be among the most disliked in the game.

I've worked some more on the item mods. There will be a bigger variety of mods eventually, I'm just starting:

What do you think about the mods display?

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Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #64 - Posted 2014-02-26 15:56:04 »

In Arcanum there were many things that damaged weapons and armor. Fire Elementals would damage just about everything so you needed to be careful when fighting one. Hitting doors and stuff with your sword would damage it. I think  that the idea is fine but one would need to make sure that the items could take a slight beating before breaking.

Offline Varkas
« Reply #65 - Posted 2014-02-26 21:06:35 »

Strangely I don't remember a lot of details from Arcanum although I played it through twice. A thing that got stuck though is that item repairs lowered the max durability so the item would eventually break, unless you had a master repair skill.

It was a fine mechanic in Arcanum, so let's try it Smiley Adjusting the durability and item damage shouldn't be too difficult, but I guess I'll have to raise all durability numbers by a factor of 5 or even 10 to allow tracking of many small item damages.

There's still a lot of code to write ...

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #66 - Posted 2014-02-27 22:00:45 »

I've got the graphics for a first player race done, the Conians. To go with the "rainbow color" theme, I gave them rainbow colors. I'm still not quite happy with the result, it seems to lack expression, but it allows to test if movement correctly shows all 8 directions.

As said before, I'm quite bad at player and monster graphics, so I need to cheat a bit and use what I actually can make. At least the style fits the imps which I made some time ago, so it will be consistent in the game.

Also it means I've now got one player race and one monster race and so I can work on combat next, because there are actually some opponents in the game Grin

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #67 - Posted 2014-02-28 21:40:54 »

Once again, a question: Would you prefer a simple currency like "520 gold" or something structured like "1 silver and 50 copper coins" ?

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Offline Drenius
« Reply #68 - Posted 2014-02-28 21:48:31 »

Simple. Simple is good.
Online LiquidNitrogen
« Reply #69 - Posted 2014-02-28 21:53:48 »

if you have different values of coins, its not really more complicated (the computer does all the counting) and it could make you be more protective of your gold coins than of your silver coins as theyre harder to get. youd happily spend silver coins on junk and food, but youd think twice before paying with gold.
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Offline Varkas
« Reply #70 - Posted 2014-03-01 21:21:25 »

An old roguelike which I used to play for a while had different coins fro treasures, copper, silver, gold, mithril, and adamant. They were converted to gold coins automatically when picked up, and the smallest unit of currency was 1 gold coin.

Maybe I've been sidetracked a bit by the idea to have different sorts of treasure, and at least for the start I should go with one coin sort and see if that is good enough. Maybe I'll use silver for a change, gold coins used to be a real big value.

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Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #71 - Posted 2014-03-01 23:51:54 »

One thing that always bothered me about games when it comes to currency is that it has not physical weight. Maybe have 3 major coins, gold silver, copper or what ever. Thing is, you could have 50 gold worth 500 silver but 500 silver is 30 lbs and 50 gold is say 5lbs. This would make the whole multiple currency system actually useful instead of a hassle.

Offline Varkas
« Reply #72 - Posted 2014-03-02 22:10:44 »

This is a very interesting suggestion, thanks a lot Smiley In town one might be able to exchange coins for lighter coins at a merchant, but in the dungeon one must take what's there.

It's kind a cool to imagine an adventurer, dirty and in ragged clothes, to enter a shop, carrying big bags and a big smile. The shopkeeper already knows what's coming, and tries not to facepalm, "Oh noes, we'll be counting copper coins for hours again!"

I feel tempted to go with copper, silver and gold coins, and one magic metal, which is required as payment in very special locations or situations.

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Offline BurntPizza

« JGO Bitwise Duke »

Medals: 482
Exp: 7 years

« Reply #73 - Posted 2014-03-02 22:27:14 »

and one magic metal, which is required as payment in very special locations or situations.

"That would be platinum.

Or Unobtainium, your pick."

Seems like most games do this.  Emo
Offline Varkas
« Reply #74 - Posted 2014-03-02 22:44:44 »

Well it's just another option for quests, but I'm not sure why you think it's bad. I'm still designing, so if there are reasons against, I can easily change the plan. Later when 120 game mechanics depend on it, it will be more difficult to change something.

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Offline BurntPizza

« JGO Bitwise Duke »

Medals: 482
Exp: 7 years

« Reply #75 - Posted 2014-03-02 22:51:09 »

I guess what I was saying was it seems like too many simply add another tier of money (or anything for that matter) for certain edge cases, or they tack on a completely different and entirely foreign approach that doesn't sit cohesively with the rest of the mechanics.

Sorry, I'm a bit tired right now, probably not making as much sense as I could.

To quote Drenius: "Simple. Simple is good."
Offline Varkas
« Reply #76 - Posted 2014-03-02 23:03:26 »

In case of software the KISS principle sure is a good idea. In case of games, simple sometimes means boring, that's the sort of simple to avoid.

In the games where the "magic metal" idea came from there was also armor and weapons made from it. So it wasn't super-special just for a quest, but a superior metal/alloy that was unknown to humans how to create, but found now and then.

But 3 is a good number, 3 tiers of coins should be fine. Quests work with quest items as well, you know the dreaded "fetch this item for me" quests - if that is a coin of unobtainium or the trinket of neverfoundness doesn't matter much from a technical view.

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #77 - Posted 2014-03-03 10:29:29 »

Now I've already got a question again. What sort of weight (mass) unit would you prefer?

Pounds? Kilograms? With fractional digits or rounded to the nearest integer?

Or rather a made up unit?

Internally mass will be measured in grams, and converted for display. I think that should be precise enough.

And, if coins will have a weight, should coins become item stacks in the inventory? Diablo I had that, but at the time it didn't feel very convincing. From a designer point of view, if coins have weights, can be picked up and dropped, and if there are several sorts of coins, they should be item stacks (like arrows, bolts, or other stackabale items).

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Online LiquidNitrogen
« Reply #78 - Posted 2014-03-03 10:47:26 »

just make them all weigh 5 grams, then gold is an advantage and copper fills your pockets quickly. though copper coins might be an advantage when you are somewhere where you are at risk of being killed or robbed.
Offline Varkas
« Reply #79 - Posted 2014-03-03 10:50:44 »

I think if you are being killed, the loss of coins is your least problem Cheesy

The questions about the weight units referred to all items, though, not just coins.

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Online LiquidNitrogen
« Reply #80 - Posted 2014-03-03 11:01:09 »

hmm.. yes, i see.

if you made it so that the player could select whether they prefer to use pounds or kilograms, that would give them a reference frame to work with to compare the items that they know the weight of in real life. then they can quickly do some calculations in their head if they need to. i think that would make the most sense. currency and places can have weird names, but measurements should go with what the player knows.
Offline Varkas
« Reply #81 - Posted 2014-03-03 21:12:25 »

I've made coins items now. Coins can stack, so you can have many coins in one inventory slot. Coins have a weight, the exact weight is still to be defined. Along with this, all other items also got a weight. The smallest weight unit in the game is 1g, display is in grams and kilograms so far.

Max. carrying capacity of a character is 50 + <str> kilograms, the base str of a character is 20, so the default capacity is 70kg. This might need adjustments, but it works for a start.

I've also worked on a small "town" map. I'm missing a lot of props and decorations graphics, this will look prettier once the tileset got more choices:

At the moment there is sort of a tavern, where the PC can rest and stash items, a smith to sell and repair metal items, and the farmer is also running a general store.

More to come ...

Edit: Village screenshot updated.

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Online LiquidNitrogen
« Reply #82 - Posted 2014-03-03 22:00:58 »

its a hard job to carry 40 kilograms for any distance, let alone 70 Tongue
after ive carried 40 liters of water along the 100 meter path through the forest to my house i have to sit down for half an hour.
Offline Varkas
« Reply #83 - Posted 2014-03-03 22:13:07 »

Well, but in RPGs those PCs are heroes Grin

Soldiers seem to carry about 30-40kg regularly on their missions. It's a game, and the problem with well-known units is, that people will start to compare it with reality. So either one can carry unusually much 8in weight) or unusually little (in items, compared to other RPGs).

I hope that the 70kg will be a compromise that works.

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #84 - Posted 2014-03-04 21:49:36 »

I've published a new walkaround demo. Most work since the last release went into the inventory UI and the items, particularly the generation of magically enhanced items.

It's still mostly proof of concept code, and no game yet. All you can do is to walk around, pick up items and drop them elsewhere again. Well, and play with the inventory screen - in this release the PC gets a whole lot of items right at start to play around with.

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #85 - Posted 2014-03-05 10:26:23 »

I've started to work on the most important building for the game, the rainbow temple. At the moment I'm a bit stuck, there should be more details, but I want to publish the current state anyways, since I think it's looking rather nice already:

Let me know what you think Smiley

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Offline Drenius
« Reply #86 - Posted 2014-03-05 17:03:18 »

Just some senseless, noiselike or whatever details are always good...
The inventory is a little bit annoying, would be nice to see where a dragged item goes before you drop it. Also, personally some keyboard movement feels sometimes a little bit better to me, especially to reach regions out of screen.
Offline Varkas
« Reply #87 - Posted 2014-03-05 21:04:44 »

I noticed the item drop problem too. I think I got the position math in the inventory view a bit off (found it: was off by 16 pixels in both y and x directions). It should be easy enough to color the area where the item will drop, I'll do that. Thanks for the suggestion Smiley

I haven't spend much work on the controls yet, I assume there will be a need for a "continuous run" mode, with both keyboard and mouse controls.

I'll take a little break from the temple graphics and come back in a while with a fresh head.

Thanks for the feedback Smiley

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Offline Varkas
« Reply #88 - Posted 2014-03-06 13:49:33 »

Once again, I've got a question. I have no real idea how to set the item prices. So far all items cost 1 currency unit, but I'll have to give them real prices once I have merchants.

Given that the smallest currency unit is a 6 gram copper coin, any ideas how to figure out reasonable prices?

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Offline ctomni231

JGO Wizard

Medals: 99
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« Reply #89 - Posted 2014-03-06 21:29:18 »

Most games just base the price according to the number of stats you get from an item. Usually, there is an equation that will just say that...

1 copper = 20 stat points

and you distribute the points within the item.

For health potions (I dunno if you'll have them), usually it is a good idea to keep them cheap. If healing is ever used in the game, then those items become dead weight quick. For me, I always wished that potions could have a better usage that worked alongside healing spells, but I haven't found a game that incorporated both yet without one being statistically better than the other.

Anyway, back to the stats, have a certain number of points per item, and bound the cost system to those points. The stronger the item, the more it'll cost. If you have to grind, make sure that back-tracking is kept to a minimum. Nothing is more annoying than drawing out a game longer than it has to be.

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