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  Introducing MERCury: A Simple 2D Game Library | -> Beta coming soon <-  (Read 24930 times)
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Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #240 - Posted 2014-05-05 22:20:37 »

If you want to be taken seriously you're going to have to answer questions like what jonjava asked. Why is it rude to ask what the objective of a library is?
Offline opiop65

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« Reply #241 - Posted 2014-05-05 22:44:36 »

It was rude, that's why. The way he asked. I don't mind if people ask what the goal of the library is, but he came off as very aggressive and negative. While that may not have been his intention, I still was offended and I have the right to be offended, just like he had the right to voice his opinion.

Offline wessles

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« Reply #242 - Posted 2014-05-05 22:51:28 »

@saucymeatman:
Yeah, it would be nice to have physics! Probably not in beta, however. Later on, perhaps.

- Wes

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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline kpars

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« Reply #243 - Posted 2014-05-05 22:54:31 »

About what @JonJava said... It's the internet, you can interpret text in just about any way.

However, I do feel that he should've read the first post of this thread though. It explains the purpose of this library, which is mainly to create something useful with the LWJGL.

- Jev

Offline HeroesGraveDev

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« Reply #244 - Posted 2014-05-06 04:25:00 »

The issue is that this thread just feels like the three of you (wessles, opiop65, kpars) in a circlejerk with the occasional outsider throwing in a comment to push you into working on something. (And then Swordsminer doing whatever)

If you don't believe me, just read through all your posts in this thread, and then split each sentence into useful stuff, and not useful stuff (that includes textthatgoeslikethis because it's unreadable).

The signal to noise ratio on this project is just too low to be taken seriously. Keep that stuff on your IRC channel (*shudders*).

Offline opiop65

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« Reply #245 - Posted 2014-05-06 06:12:36 »

I'm honestly offended right now. We have been posting updates about the project when we can, but whatever. Doesn't matter anymore. 9 months of life wasted because no one has said a single time that hey, this project is kind of cool, keep it up or hey, I've noticed how hard you have three have been working, its ok if you occasionally joke around and have fun.

Is it forbidden to have fun on here?

Go ahead, feed me to the chitchat monster. I'm done with this site.

Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #246 - Posted 2014-05-06 06:51:00 »

HeroesGraveDev is right though. There's basically only 3 people posting, and 2 others that occasionally pop in (remember gouessej? or was that too long ago). Obviously the problem is that you could just have these discussions on irc or somewhere else, no need to have everything public. Not that you shouldn't post updates, but there's a lot of small posts that are pretty much unneeded. Also, you can't blame forum members for not posting on this thread. You don't get to decide what other people do. No one's restricting joking around, but realize you have 9 pages of pretty the same kind of back-and-forth.
Offline jonjava
« Reply #247 - Posted 2014-05-06 07:23:19 »

*snip* 9 months of life wasted *snip*

I don't think so. You've probably learned a whole bunch including how to work in teams with other people.

If you weren't being surly, then I can only draw from this that you want a mission statement of some sort?

My intention was to discourage reinventing the wheel unnecessarily.

We are mostly working on this for the experience, and to hopefully help out a newbie into the world of game programming, should s/he desire to use it.

This is absolutely fine. I've reinvented the wheel multiple (too many) times to figure or try something out. I would suggest, however, that instead you would take a look at some of the Open Source game libraries that already exist out there for a few simple reasons:

1. They're done by absolute experts and have (usually) highly informative documentation. This means they are a great way to learn how to do things well and efficient for real.
2. There's a lot of help, documentation and a large community already. You can get help and advice easily.
3. You can learn from their highly professional code and code structure and even help contribute to the project and be part of the developers of the library.

Offline Gibbo3771
« Reply #248 - Posted 2014-05-06 07:28:31 »

This is about the 3rd time I have came in here to see the new posts to only see another argument break out.

I have been checking here for updates, I do not use the library but it is inspiring seeing small time developers take on such a challenge just because they can.

The last useful post was letting us know that you documented everything, before that was the nice logo change.

Anything else is just spam, i'll probably block this thread from appearing on my posts because really it seems pointless shifting through a dozen comments to find something constructive.

"This code works flawlessly first time and exactly how I wanted it"
Said no programmer ever
Offline kpars

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« Reply #249 - Posted 2014-05-06 11:42:03 »

Asking 'Why are you making this library?' when there are tons of others out there is just like asking 'Why do we make games?' when there are many other AAA titles out there to play.

We do it for fun. The same reason why everybody here does what they do.

- Jev

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Offline saucymeatman
« Reply #250 - Posted 2014-05-06 11:45:47 »

Although I don't think people should have to defend a threads existence (it ruins the thread), I come to check out this topic very often. Not sure how much I would come to this site really if it wasn't for this thread. Its interesting to me to watch this library develop. Why would it matter if others have already created better libraries? Better programmers than myself have made games of every genre before me, and it would be outrageous if I hoped to be more successful than them. And yet, we all still program games. And if anyone posted something discouraging the creation of a game because someone before them has done it better, people would be very upset. I don't see why its necessary to discourage creativity when people are going to make a tool for game development, its a very sad thing.

EDIT :
Dammit Kpars, you posted the same thing right before me XD
Offline atombrot

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« Reply #251 - Posted 2014-05-06 15:08:07 »

Don't want to spill more oil in the fire, but I have some thoughts that I'd like to leave here.

I often just go to the "Recent posts since epoch" page and check out most of the updated threads. Because of this I have also followed your thread a bit.

It's nice that you have found something to do and that you find the motivation to keep working on it. That is something many people fail at (I have started enough projects myself, that I have abbondened after a while).

But I have to agree with HeroesGraveDev.

The signal to noise ratio on this project is just too low to be taken seriously. Keep that stuff on your IRC channel (*shudders*).

People might be interested in your project, but the amount of noise in this thread is quite high. You use this thread as a chat (or at least it seems to me to be like that). If I'm interested in this project, I have to go through 8 pages of spam to find some relevant bits.
If you want to appeal to people and provoke more (positive) reactions, maybe you should act a bit more professional. Update your opening post and add more information to it, so a potential user does not have to go through 9 pages to find out what all is about. write some more about where you are coming from (why do you do this) and where you want to go (what you want to achieve). Also most importantly, what can you already do? I look at the opening post and I cannot really say, were this project stands. what features are planned and what features are already there. put a changelog in there, so users see when new releases of your project are ready (at some point a homepage or wiki for this stuff might be a good place).

then also, you make a game library and currently the only image in the opening post is your logo. nobody cares about your logo at this stage. it's nice that you have one, but please, show some screenshots of your product in action Wink

What would also help enormously would be to keep the development and offtopic chatter out of this thread. Have a forum, setup an irc channel, use an issue tracker, make new threads if you have a technical problem, but don't spam this thread. Others might not be interested in theese things. Keep the thread for posting new updates or for answering questions (like the one from jonjava). I tend to remember noisy posts and don't really look all too often into them, when I see there is an update.
 
And don't be easily offended on the internet Wink Even if jonjava did not have any bad intentions with asking his question (I don't think he had), there are other people on the internet who just want to watch the world burn Wink if you go on a public forum with your project, you're gonna be critizized. learn to deal with it. his question would have been a nice queue to drop some words about your motivation and wessles has given a nice answer to it, but the other responses were quite immature (and this reflects on your project).

So I for my part would like the see you take off with your library, make good progress and play some nice games made with it, but if you don't change your posting behavior here, I don't think I will be seeing it between all the noise Wink

I hope no offense is taken, as this are just my thoughts about the visibility of this project. I don't want to discourage you, but I hope this helps you to reflect and improve.
Offline SHC
« Reply #252 - Posted 2014-05-06 15:44:49 »

@atombrot

What you said is absolutely right, I appreciate you. But if I'm in your place, I would have sent them a personal message rather than posting it here. I think that will make great difference - nobody likes these helping notices given to them to be visible to the public, isn't it? Just a word of my thought and not as an offence.

Offline atombrot

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« Reply #253 - Posted 2014-05-06 17:25:49 »

@SHC: No offense taken. You might be right with your concern, but given the latest discussion in this thread, I felt the need to post this here. Then again, I think some other users might also benefit of my thoughts and reflect a bit on their visibility, and so now there is at least a chance those users might see my post (in contrast to a PM).

My suggestion would be anyways to abandon the ship (not the project, but make a new clean thread, ask riven to remove most of the replies or make a good homepage/wiki for the project). With this my nasty post would also dissappear *har har har* Wink
Offline wessles

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« Reply #254 - Posted 2014-05-06 20:46:01 »

Darnit, why am I always at school when these things happen?

Don't want to spill more oil in the fire, but I have some thoughts that I'd like to leave here.

The signal to noise ratio on this project is just too low to be taken seriously. Keep that stuff on your IRC channel (*shudders*).

People might be interested in your project, but the amount of noise in this thread is quite high. You use this thread as a chat (or at least it seems to me to be like that). If I'm interested in this project, I have to go through 8 pages of spam to find some relevant bits.

...

What would also help enormously would be to keep the development and offtopic chatter out of this thread. Have a forum, setup an irc channel, use an issue tracker, make new threads if you have a technical problem, but don't spam this thread. Others might not be interested in theese things. Keep the thread for posting new updates or for answering questions (like the one from jonjava).

...

I hope no offense is taken, as this are just my thoughts about the visibility of this project. I don't want to discourage you, but I hope this helps you to reflect and improve.

Hello atombrot!

This, I think, was the most constructive response on here. It highlighted exactly what the issues were, and exactly what had to be done. I like it.

I must admit that this thread has been under a big stream of abuse since its creation. As heroesgravedev put it, we have too much 'noise.' Such as the whole 'Floatbuffers killed my OS' situation, or all the 'check your email posts,' and mostly just our random chitchat that has, on numerous occations, almost fed the thread to the chitchat monster. As has been stated, the main problem here is that we are using this small, single thread for something that would possibly require a whole forum, website, and IRC chat. We are getting suggestions, criticisms, updates, and offtopic-ness all in the same cramped space!

Funny thing is, we have been planning to make a big website with a forum, and IRC page for a while now, but never have gotten to it. In a way, I am actually quite glad this whole argument happened. It now gives us a reason to really haul ourselves toward making space for all of our topics, and organize ourselves. I think that once we have a proper website done, this thread may be just an updating thread, like it is supposed to be!

Thanks guys for the conversation, I will now have a big planning conversation with the team!
-wes  Smiley

EDIT:
I look at the opening post and I cannot really say, were this project stands. what features are planned and what features are already there. put a changelog in there, so users see when new releases of your project are ready (at some point a homepage or wiki for this stuff might be a good place).

then also, you make a game library and currently the only image in the opening post is your logo. nobody cares about your logo at this stage. it's nice that you have one, but please, show some screenshots of your product in action Wink

Forgot to mention that this is amazing advice! I will definitely modify the first post with more about what it can do!

Offline Agro
« Reply #255 - Posted 2014-05-06 20:57:02 »

I'm honestly offended right now. We have been posting updates about the project when we can, but whatever. Doesn't matter anymore. 9 months of life wasted because no one has said a single time that hey, this project is kind of cool, keep it up or hey, I've noticed how hard you have three have been working, its ok if you occasionally joke around and have fun.

Is it forbidden to have fun on here?

Go ahead, feed me to the chitchat monster. I'm done with this site.

not really a good thing if you get offended so ezpzily. you cant make everyone like something so fast(lol 9 months), especially when you guys treat it like a meme (imo anyway). the project looks neat, its just the way you guys treat it that depreciates its significance.

point is that the joking around and having fun part is way more occasional than occasional, so ya kthx

Offline ctomni231

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« Reply #256 - Posted 2014-05-07 07:46:42 »

Honestly, it is kind of hard for me to blame anyone.

 It is obvious that this team is a group of young folks looking to write a game engine. Noise aside, there is an innocent energy that this project has that a lot of projects lack. It is fun, new, and exciting while trying to be competitive. Regardless of how much I shudder at the lack of organization, I would hate for this project to turn into another "business like usual" library. You guys may actually be onto something with such a relaxed structure.

Yeah, you can have a front page and try to organize it a little bit. But, making a library seem like a fun activity is no easy task, and I am feeling that vibe from this group. Try not to lose that flavor as you move on. It is very refreshing to see young teams get things done just by their whims alone. Keep it up! Wink

Offline Riven
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« Reply #257 - Posted 2014-05-07 07:58:45 »

This meta discussion has got to stop at some point, so why not right now?

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Offline wessles

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« Reply #258 - Posted 2014-06-08 18:52:51 »

We have been pretty busy within the last month or so. Here is a little sneak peak at the GUI system so far!

Click to Play


Jev completely hates working on this, so I decided to just do it myself. We now have some typing input, and some WAY better support for Texturing and stuffs.

This is, by the way, not committed yet, but I am confident that when it is committed, it will be the time that MERCury is released! Expect a few posts in the future showing off some of the small features of MERCury that I've been working on lately. I just do not have the time to make a mega-post on all the things we have been doing.

On a side note, the website is pretty close to completion; Jev has estimated about 3 days. Jev had better deliver.

And on a rather larger side-note, Jev has told me that he intends to stop working on the coding aspects of MERCury, due to him wanting to pursue other projects. From now on, he will be a public relations-sort guy for MERCury, paying for the domain, maintaining the website, etc. He will still be coding for Radirius, but he states that there is not much keeping him on MERCury.
all alone again persecutioncomplex

Have a great day,
-wes

Offline Drenius
« Reply #259 - Posted 2014-06-08 18:59:14 »

Quote
On a side note, the website is pretty close to completion; Jev has estimated about 3 days.
We will see Wink (sorry Jev)

Nice too see that you can still keep your motivation on this. The only way to create a good library is to keep refactoring it.
Offline wessles

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« Reply #260 - Posted 2014-06-09 02:36:53 »

Worked a bit more on line-rendering today. It was in pretty bad shape, but I'd say it looks pretty nice for now.

Click to Play


Even got some button support in!

Signing off for today; very tired.
-wes  Tongue

Offline wessles

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« Reply #261 - Posted 2014-06-12 02:32:56 »

Some more work with geometry today and yesterday!

Click to Play


Took quite a bit of research to find these algorithms, so I hope it is well appreciated!

-wes

Online ags1

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« Reply #262 - Posted 2014-06-12 10:23:57 »

Do you have a link to the main source file for this intersection checking in (presumably) Git?

Offline wessles

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« Reply #263 - Posted 2014-06-12 20:04:49 »

There is no single class, as checking for collision with one method and one method only is extremely inefficient. For two circles, would you rather check for every line and see if there is a collision, or simply check the radii? So there is one method that most shapes share, but there are a few shortcuts that I took.

I really should give some credit to the slick2D geometry, which I took the idea from for this main-collision thingy. I modified it slightly, as I think that the original slick2D code was wrong in saying that this:



is not a collision, because the outer lines do not intersect. I disagree completely, which is why I just added in a little smaller-object's-center-is-inside-the-bigger-one check, which eliminated this issue.

Without further ado, the general collision code:
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    /** @return Whether s intersects with this shape. */
    public boolean intersects(Shape s) {
        // This method is VERY inefficient! You are supposed to use this as a
       // base, and then make specific-cases that save processing time where
       // you can.
       //
       // Let's go over the key points of what this method does: it will loop
       // through all vertices of this object, make lines between them, and
       // test that line against the lines of the other shape. This is a great
       // idea, included even in Slick2D's code[1]. There is one flaw to it
       // though: if a smaller object is inside of a bigger object, and none of
       // the lines are touching, then it is not colliding by this algorithm.
       //
       // To (roughly) fix this, we will test to see that the center of the
       // smaller shape does not contain the center point of the larger shape.
       
        // Loop through all of the vertices!
       for (int v_ = 0; v_ < vertices.length; v_++) {
            // The amount we have to step to get to the second vertex on a line.
           // The reason this can't be just '1' is since the last vertex needs
           // to connect to the bottom! In that case, v_+1 will not cut it.
           int step1 = v_ != vertices.length - 1 ? 1 : -(vertices.length - 1);
            // The 'line1vertex1' and 'line1vertex2'
           Vec2 l1v1 = vertices[v_], l1v2 = vertices[v_ + step1];
           
            // Now, for each line in this shape, we need to test all lines in
           // the other shape.
           for (int v2_ = 0; v2_ < s.vertices.length; v2_++) {
                int step2 = v2_ != s.vertices.length - 1 ? 1 : -(s.vertices.length - 1);
                Vec2 l2v1 = s.vertices[v2_], l2v2 = s.vertices[v2_ + step2];
               
                // Now we test!
               if (linesIntersect(l1v1, l1v2, l2v1, l2v2))
                    return true;
            }
        }
       
        // Now to do the center test!
       
        if (getArea() > s.getArea())
            return contains(new Vec2(s.getX() + s.getWidth() / 2, s.getY() + s.getHeight() / 2));
        else
            return s.contains(new Vec2(getX() + getWidth() / 2, getY() + getHeight() / 2));
    }


All Other Codes

Still pretty messy, will clean it up a bit more soon, and hopefully add in a line class.

-wes

Offline Danny02
« Reply #264 - Posted 2014-06-12 20:45:24 »

how about:

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int v = 0;
while( v < vertices.length)
{
    Vec2 l1v1 = vertices[v], l1v2 = vertices[++v % vertices.length];
    //...
}
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« Reply #265 - Posted 2014-06-12 21:36:00 »

You do handle triangle-circle collisions, or rectangle-circle?

Offline wessles

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« Reply #266 - Posted 2014-06-12 21:45:12 »

@Danny02:
Thanks for that!

@ags1:
No, not specific cases for those. Will probably do it soon though.

Just got maven working, so the version system is going to be a lot better now. Smiley

- Wes

Offline wessles

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« Reply #267 - Posted 2014-06-13 02:44:24 »

I just finished the Introduction section of the wiki. It isn't much, but I have my hopes that it will serve users well Smiley.

I also have decided, along with Jev, to change the way we allow people to contribute to the library. Instead of simply importing an eclipse project, we will have the source and libraries in the MERCury folder. Outside of this folder is another folder called 'projects,' which will contain all different project files to drag in for Eclipse, Intellij, and Netbeans. So far, only Eclipse files are done, but I am confident that I should be able to get the other two working in no time!
Here is a link so you can see it.

The website is almost done, we just need to add some finishing touches, and bug a friend of Jev's to host it.

Also, we are going to be releasing an experimental release for 1.0.0 where we will test the library out and see what we can fix/add. We need to catch as many errors, bugs, etc. as we can! You guys can help too, if you want. Either way, we are getting excited for the results Smiley.

Getting psyched for 1.0.0-experimental!
-wes

Offline Danny02
« Reply #268 - Posted 2014-06-13 06:52:59 »

If you are using maven, which is a great choice. You shoul get rid of any project folders from any IDE, configurate everything in maven.
If you need help with a proper .gitignore file, go to: gitignore.io
Offline wessles

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« Reply #269 - Posted 2014-06-16 23:36:51 »

A quick daily update
Added in some more geometric fixes and cleanups today.

I also did something a bit more big. You see, before, I had a limit to the amount of vertices that can be rendered before it just flushes the data to OGL and restarts. That was at 50,000. The issue was, every time a vertex was called from the spritebatcher, it checked if this vertex overflowed the buffer. This would lead to a bunch of shapes being drawn, then on the last one that is drawn before a flush, it would be cut off in the middle. This would mean that the rest of the shape's vertices would be rendered separate to the first half, resulting in some wacky looking things...

So I just fixed the bug by making each shape do a flushIfOverflow() call at the end of their drawing. This would mean that the spritebatcher only flushes when the shape is done. I also added in some wiggle room so that the shape could go only 1000 vertices above the limit, and then call a flushIfOverflow().

Fun stuffs!

I ran into this issue when I was doing a stress test, and now the stress test is ready! This is rendering 427,890 vertices. The frame rate stayed around 55-60 throughout the test. It is rendering a huge Texture and about 71314 rectangles sized at 0.5x0.5 at 1.5 away from each other (the graphics are scaled up 2x, of course; otherwise you could not see the blips).



Of course, the image is not that pretty. But the numbers are!
I don't think that people will be rendering more than 427,890 vertices for a 2D game though. Thus, I think that MERCury will do just fine for rendering!  Roll Eyes

On the topic of an actual release
I am proud to say that we are getting close to 1.0.0e! I mean, really close. So close that it might as well just be a release now...

That is actually my idea here. I am going to change the way I do updates now. Here is how updates will work now:

  • A new version is put into experimental. This is an unstable version, and will likely contain some bugs. You would only get this release if, A) you want to try out some new features, or B) you want to use it and find some bugs for me to fix.

    Experimental is for two purposes. First and foremost, to get new features out quickly to the user, but in an environment where bugs are expected. It is also to refine the code. By giving it out, people can look through, critique it, and help the library towards its next stable release.
  • The experimental has been out for a while, and people have critiqued it a bit. The amount of bugs found has lowered significantly, and it looks like it has been greatly purified. It is now that we release the stable release, in which it is considered ready for public use, and appears to have very few bugs.

    This is not to say that bugs cannot be still reported, but this is just a release to let people know that you shouldn't run into any MAJOR issues.

So that is how I am structuring things in the future! This now means that, technically, you can use the library now!

I am actually asking you now. If you want to use the library, go ahead and try it out. For now, however, just realize that you will indefinitely find some bugs. Actually, probably a lot of bugs. But realize with every issue you report that you are helping this to become a better library, and I, a better programmer!

And as for the website
Jev still needs to contact his friend for server-hosting, but it is pretty much done. Soon after, the forums should be done!

Have fun with the library; I am excited to hear all of your input!
-wes

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