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  Is anyone sad about slick2d?  (Read 3049 times)
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Offline wessles

JGO Wizard


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Radirius Games


« Posted 2013-06-16 01:20:56 »

I don't mean any harm, but I just want to know. As most know, slick2d used to be great, a port for all n00bs of java game programming. I would have quit java had I not found it. Tons of people use it still! But now it seems it has been completely abandon. Come the day when the current code does not work, where will we get more supporters of java games, which is dwindling due to bias go? I just think that kevglass should consider working more on it, for the n00bs to learn! Anyone else?

EDIT: I am by no means saying that slick is better that libgdx. It is a better n00b friendly library to learn from, but once you are done with the basics, I say LEAVE NOW!!!

Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2013-06-16 01:27:48 »

Eh...no.
Find a legitimate reason why slick is better than libgdx.
And to put this in perspective, kevglass uses libgdx now. Wink
Offline sproingie

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Medals: 202



« Reply #2 - Posted 2013-06-16 01:28:49 »

It was abandoned for a reason.  Let it go.  Kevglass uses libgdx instead, and so should you.

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Offline Longarmx
« Reply #3 - Posted 2013-06-16 01:39:16 »

I think it is easy enough for newbies to learn to use LibGDx over Slick. Also, it uses modern OpenGl techniques and comes with a bunch of utility classes. I feel that slick has been dead for years and that people should stop trying to hold onto it. Just let it die!

Offline wessles

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« Reply #4 - Posted 2013-06-16 01:44:27 »

Not the point. I am saying it is a good start of programming. I know, I even am using libgdx, but but I praise slick2d for its simplicity. It is easy to get started on!
For those who do not want to read, here is a chart:
Slick2d --> noobs
Libgdx --> novices and pros

Offline wessles

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Medals: 77
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« Reply #5 - Posted 2013-06-16 01:50:03 »

Eh...no.
Find a legitimate reason why slick is better than libgdx.
And to put this in perspective, kevglass uses libgdx now. Wink
I never said that slick is better. It is easier.

Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #6 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:12:56 »

Easier or not, if you think libgdx is better, why aren't you using it? There may be some parts of slick you like better than libgdx, but if you still think libgdx is better overall why wouldn't you use it?
Offline opiop65

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« Reply #7 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:13:15 »

Easier is not always better. One thing I always tell myself when I'm coding is that nothing in life is worth doing that's not hard. You may be able to find some exceptions, but for the most part that's the truth. When I was teaching myself pure LWJGL, I hated it. I never understood it, things just didn't work. But I kept reminding myself of that motto and I eventually got over the learning curve hump and now feel like I can program at least decently in OpenGL. Slick2D may be easier, but it's old and outdated, so it's worthless to learn in the long run. Stop trying to take the easy path and just learn LibGDX or even straight up LWJGL.

Offline ReBirth
« Reply #8 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:21:16 »

I never use slick2d before, but I'm mad a little Java games loses one of its finest library.

Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #9 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:22:37 »

Also, who said slick is only for noobs? Everyone used to use it...
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Offline wessles

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Medals: 77
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« Reply #10 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:23:08 »

Easier or not, if you think libgdx is better, why aren't you using it? There may be some parts of slick you like better than libgdx, but if you still think libgdx is better overall why wouldn't you use it?
I do use it. I just am stuck on a project that I cannot port. After horde, I will use libgdx full time.

Easier is not always better. One thing I always tell myself when I'm coding is that nothing in life is worth doing that's not hard. You may be able to find some exceptions, but for the most part that's the truth. When I was teaching myself pure LWJGL, I hated it. I never understood it, things just didn't work. But I kept reminding myself of that motto and I eventually got over the learning curve hump and now feel like I can program at least decently in OpenGL. Slick2D may be easier, but it's old and outdated, so it's worthless to learn in the long run. Stop trying to take the easy path and just learn LibGDX or even straight up LWJGL.
I am saying by 'easy,' that anyone who wants to get into programming could pick this up in a week, and start programming. Then they can use libgdx or lwjgl. And again, I do use libgdx, just that I am busy on a project that Is in slick.

Offline wessles

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:24:14 »

Also, who said slick is only for noobs? Everyone used to use it...
If you mean that everyone was a noob. The pros used to use lwjgl straight up... Now it is the norm to use libgdx.

Offline wessles

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« Reply #12 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:25:06 »

I never use slick2d before, but I'm mad a little Java games loses one of its finest library.
THANK YOU!

Offline opiop65

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« Reply #13 - Posted 2013-06-16 02:26:37 »

Yes, but what I'm saying is that its pointless to learn in the first place. If its no longer being developed and is using extremely old code, your game will turn out slow and possibly buggy. What I'm saying is that back when it was being developed, it was a great tool. Now its not. I do not recommend any new programmers learn it.

Also, I used to love Slick2D. So I'm not hating on it.

Offline aldacron

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« Reply #14 - Posted 2013-06-16 07:47:36 »

I just think that kevglass should consider working more on it, for the n00bs to learn! Anyone else?

When someone makes freely available something they've been working on in their spare time, there are never any guarantees. kevglass has no obligation to anyone regarding Slick. He did a good deed, kept it up for quite a while, and now he's moved on. So should you. For anyone to get "mad" about it is just silly.
Offline cylab

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2013-06-16 08:32:45 »

He did a good deed, kept it up for quite a while, and now he's moved on. So should you.

Either that or take over and maintain the code yourself  Shocked

Better - make something you think libGDX is missing, call it slickGDX and you'll be fine. I would start with a simple tutorial how to set up a desktop-only project without using libGDXs project GUI, since it seems to be the biggest hurdle for noobs to handle multiplatform development and they do not notice, that they just can use libGDX like any other library in Eclipse/Netbeans/IntelliJ as long as they target desktop only...

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline mrdeathjockey

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Trying to be a good programmer, step by step


« Reply #16 - Posted 2013-06-16 08:56:09 »

I still love Slick, despite doing game dev for over a year now but sometimes if you really just want to get a quick, mini-game done, I reckon slick is much easier to setup and use.

Just personal opinion... Tongue One of my main projects still use slick, I don't find it to be too bad. If it has to die then it might be a bit of a loss for the Java community because there's one less option to choose from.

Offline relminator
« Reply #17 - Posted 2013-06-16 10:14:22 »

How could you be mad about something given to you for free?

Kevglass has done a great but thankless job.  No one can and should force him to do something he does not want.
Online kappa
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★★★★★


« Reply #18 - Posted 2013-06-16 10:43:10 »

No reason to be mad about Slick2D, its still available and open source. IMO as an API the project is pretty much feature complete and doesn't really need any new major features for 2d desktop games. Plus open source projects don't die, they just become inactive until someone decides to run with them again (in the case of Slick2D the community has been maintaining it for a while, last pull request merge was 2 weeks ago).

The Slick code is still some of the most well written java code i've seen and very easy to reuse in your own projects as its just a collection of a few small utility classes (sound, fonts, images, etc) and classes that wrap the LWJGL API into a higher level one. The project is still very useful for quick prototyping and basic game making.

Its greatest advantage over LibGDX is that its api mirrors that of Java2D (which in itself is a really nice API) and hence easy to pick up for most Java programmers (as they are usually familiar with Java2D).

Many still find the project very useful and continue to use it, so whats the problem?
Offline Cero
« Reply #19 - Posted 2013-06-16 11:17:31 »

Right. Slick is easier than libgdx and I used it after Java2D and before Libgdx.
So if you are a beginner and just want to learn, yeah go check it out.
You dont need support or updates - it works for simple stuff.
When you run into bugs or problems you are probably at a point where you might as well move on to libgdx.

Offline ReBirth
« Reply #20 - Posted 2013-06-17 04:34:56 »

Turning it into OSS can give advantage. People can contribute and Kev just hit "accept" Tongue

Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #21 - Posted 2013-06-17 05:39:42 »

It already is open source.  There still have to be pull requests actually worth hitting "accept" on, and that doesn't magically happen by itself.
Offline __iCode__

Senior Newbie





« Reply #22 - Posted 2013-06-17 09:07:28 »

Mate I've seen some of your other posts, I know that you are 13, stop acting like you know everything about programming, what people used to use and what people use now. Yes people used to use slick, yes some people still do, yes it may have been easier, but easier things are generally not as good, things that are harder normally are better, great motto as a few have said. Slick is dead, move on...
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #23 - Posted 2013-06-17 09:15:34 »

Mate I've seen some of your other posts, I know that you are 13, stop acting like you know everything about programming

He perfectly got his answer, why going on showing him up?

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline __iCode__

Senior Newbie





« Reply #24 - Posted 2013-06-17 09:20:59 »

Because no one had raised some the points that I did?
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #25 - Posted 2013-06-17 10:01:40 »

That's unnecessary Smiley

Offline wessles

JGO Wizard


Medals: 77
Projects: 4
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Radirius Games


« Reply #26 - Posted 2013-06-17 20:28:41 »

This is getting annoying. Everyone thinks that I said that slick is a good library. I am not saying that. I am saying that slick was good for beginners. It is easy, but I am not by any means saying that it is better. I am merely asking if anyone is sad to see it go. I am sorry that I phrased my question wrong. I will edit the title and stuff now.

How could you be mad about something given to you for free?

Kevglass has done a great but thankless job.  No one can and should force him to do something he does not want.

I have now rephrased the title and stuff.

Mate I've seen some of your other posts, I know that you are 13, stop acting like you know everything about programming

I'm sorry you feel that way. I would love to hear what posts you thought were 'full of it,' as some advice.
P.S. was that necessary?

Yes people used to use slick, yes some people still do, yes it may have been easier, but easier things are generally not as good, things that are harder normally are better, great motto as a few have said. Slick is dead, move on...

I agree with most of the above, except how slick is dead. It is by no means dead. Yes, it is on life support, only kept alive by the few who use it not to learn, but you still miss my point. I am saying that it was a good learning resource, and gives valuable experience. You can experiment in game mechanics, and graphics easier, without the hassle of other libraries. It is simpler, but not better. I even recommend that people use libgdx instead, as everyone else does. But if you are just starting out, do you need a more modern version, which is a big jump, or would you use an easier version, that met your graphical needs, and let you make a simple game to learn basics? I, as many, would choose slick2d. But libgdx is still better, just harder, and less noob friendly.

In summary:
BABY STEPS!!!
Slick2d --> Libgdx --> Something better in the future

Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #27 - Posted 2013-06-17 20:55:53 »

Are there any specific areas where you found Slick to be more "noob friendly" or is this just going to forever remain in "gut feeling" territory?
Offline NegativeZero

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Zero but not.


« Reply #28 - Posted 2013-06-17 21:13:21 »

I really enjoyed using the StateBasedGame with Slick, I found it easy to get started with. It was great for Ludum Dare, as I could a menu operational within minutes, not having to worry about much else.

That said, I haven't used LIBgdx, so I don't know if it has it's equivalent.
Offline ctomni231

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« Reply #29 - Posted 2013-06-17 21:14:10 »

Slick2D has been one of my favorite gateways into OpenGL, still is. However, programs still have a life-cycle and it all depends on how many people want to work to keep it updated. I hate to point this out, but being "mad" or "sad" about Slick2D isn't going to fix Slick2D.

All Slick2D needs to become relevant again is a group of programmers to update it using the new LWJGL drivers and to also finish the bridge that was started with Slick2D and LibGDX. I'd even go so far to say that if the two were merged, you can "Have your cake and eat it too."

It is very hard to be "sad" at Slick2D, because it only takes a programmer with a little bit of time to keep it relevant. Don't  underestimate the power of open source. Once your project is out there, then you don't know who will end up picking it up to make it better than what it is now.

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