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  Moving to Linux...  (Read 5444 times)
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Online ags1

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« Reply #60 - Posted 2013-05-31 18:41:44 »

Don't say that! Ubuntu is all I know... I thought I was a proper nerd, using Ubuntu and all, now you tell me it isn't real Linux  Grin

Offline petergood

Innocent Bystander





« Reply #61 - Posted 2013-05-31 20:15:18 »

I must say, I use Linux because it is much safer than Windows. What do I mean? Well, there are no antiviruses for Linux. Linux just doesn`t need them, baceuse it work on a different level of security than Windows. That is why, Linux is used for game servers, and not only, because big companies like Google, Facebook and Wikipedia, all use Linux for their servers. I prefer Linux, because of the terminal and the ease of installing net programs with sudo apt-get install. The best distro in my opinion is Ubuntu. I have been using Windows for a long time, but most recently I have switched to Ubuntu, which is much better for my needs.

Programming guy, minecraft fanatic.
Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #62 - Posted 2013-05-31 20:32:59 »

Yeah the security and ease of installation with Linux are definitely big factors in why I use it.  I like that on Linux I can use the administrator account all the time whereas on Windows I use a normal user account due to the likelihood of getting viruses.  Also, I find typing "yum install texlive" as a much easier method of installing TeXLive than on Windows where you have to click buttons.  Usually with Windows installers you have to press a lot more buttons than the typing it takes on Linux.
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Offline gouessej
« Reply #63 - Posted 2013-05-31 20:35:48 »

I don't advise you to use Steam. GNU Linux is about freedom, not DRMs and there are tons of nice free and open source games for this family of operating system.

By saying not to get games with DRM because Linux is about freedom, you yourself are trying to restrict freedom. Tongue
Ok I'm not a native speaker but I know what my previous sentence means. I wrote "I don't advise you", it was a suggestion. DRMs restrict freedom but I didn't demand anybody to stop using it. I think that it's a bit a shame to use GNU Linux with Steam but I don't prevent anybody from doing it, it was just an advice, please can you avoid misquoting me? Am I allowed to express my opinion, to make a constructive remark even though some people disagree with me here?

don't listen to these people who say "don't use X because it's proprietary". If the proprietary version is better (not necessarily saying it is) use it. you probably don't care about the source code anyways, especially for a graphics driver.
In my humble opinion, it only works on the very short term. I don't read the source code of graphics drivers but it is helpful to go on supporting drivers despite the mercantile decisions of capitalists. Using open source drivers is better on the long term especially if you report bugs and even though you don't care about the source code for your own daily use. My computer wouldn't work any more if I chose to use a proprietary driver as ATI stopped maintaining the driver of the ATI Radeon 9250 Pro some years ago.

Steam on Linux is about freedom too - it's about trying to keep a channel open for delivering games that is not controlled by Microsoft, Google or Apple.
My favourite "application store" is Internet. In my humble opinion, Steam is not the kind of channel that I would like to defend. There are still private corporations behind it, maybe they are less "bad" than Google, Microsoft and Apple but you ask me to choose between the plague and the cholera. I still defend political alternatives, especially the collectivist cooperative global patronage.

As the proprietary OSes get locked down, people are trying to move their business models to Linux, and I think that will ultimately strengthen Linux.
I hope you're right but corporations follow their own interests, they can kill GNU Linux too. Just think about the Palladium project. Microsoft's partners agreed with him about the absolute control of each file and each application on a computer. GNU Linux should rely on better partners on the long term even though some corporations have some interests in this competitor of Windows.

Online ags1

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Make code not war!


« Reply #64 - Posted 2013-05-31 20:57:34 »

Yeah the security and ease of installation with Linux are definitely big factors in why I use it.  I like that on Linux I can use the administrator account all the time whereas on Windows I use a normal user account due to the likelihood of getting viruses.  Also, I find typing "yum install texlive" as a much easier method of installing TeXLive than on Windows where you have to click buttons.  Usually with Windows installers you have to press a lot more buttons than the typing it takes on Linux.

I've always understood that you should not use the root account on linux if not needed.

Offline HeroesGraveDev

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« Reply #65 - Posted 2013-05-31 21:53:31 »

@gouessej: Sorry, I didn't mean to misquote you or anything, I just thought it was funny that someone could say not to do something because of freedom, and decided to point it out. I was not trying to make it seem as if you were against freedom etc. I apologise if it came across that way.
Personally I would have wrote "I don't think it feels right to use Steam", but then again, that may just be me.

@Security on Linux: All the security of Linux is wasted if you put an idiot between the chair and the keyboard. Remember that humans are still the most insecure part of computers (but Windows is catching up Grin)

@Steam discussion: Personally, I only use Steam if there are no other (trustworthy) alternatives to get the game. Result: My only Steam games are Terraria and Portal (which I was gifted). Anything else I got from other distribution platforms or direct from the developers, even if I found the game on Steam.

Offline kpars

JGO Wizard


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Radirius Software Developer


« Reply #66 - Posted 2013-06-01 10:35:14 »

I have a great feeling this will end up in the chit chat area soon or later.

Has anyone tried Mageia Linux? It's a new distro I am in the middle of installing right now.

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Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #67 - Posted 2013-06-01 15:41:34 »

@ags1:  I actually can't use root as the default user account, so I basically do the same think on Windows except my normal account is an administrator so I have two passwords available to access root.  It's less secure than Windows, but with less viruses I feel like it's okay.

@kpars:  I have no belief that this will end up in chit chat, because it hasn't left the topic of Linux.

@ALL:  On Linux, do you guys normally use OpenJDK or actually use Sun's JVM?  I remember when downloading Minecraft for Linux (which runs way faster on Linux, by the way) Mojang asked all to use Sun's JVM, but I paid no attention to that.  Does anybody use Sun's JVM on Linux?
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #68 - Posted 2013-06-01 15:45:44 »

Maybe you mean OpenJDK or Oracle's. I have a messy installation here (have both). The java -version gave me
1  
2  
3  
java version "1.7.0_21"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-0ubuntu0.12.10.1)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)

So yeah OpenJDK. Guess I failed to export Oracle's PATH.

Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #69 - Posted 2013-06-01 15:59:20 »

Yeah, I did.  I just said Sun because that's what Mojang said.  I guess Oracle bought Sun so it is now Oracle's, though I really don't know the history of that at all.
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Offline philfrei
« Reply #70 - Posted 2013-06-02 05:22:38 »

Yes, am using Oracle's JDK, not Open JDK. I can't recall what prompted me to do this. I do recall it was tricky making it the default, getting it to work with Apache Tomcat and Ant, etc., but not all the steps involved. There was the setting of environment variables, but also replacing some path links to OpenJDK with links to Oracle's JDK, and adding ways to find the "javac" command as well. Being a Linux novice, I was just happy to get it all operational. Am hoping someone will be discussing the "right" way to do this, if there is one.

OpenJDK, I could see being more in the "spirit" of Linux. I wish I could remember what motivated me to switch.  Clueless
Am using Ubuntu Desktop.

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Offline nsigma
« Reply #71 - Posted 2013-06-03 12:55:56 »

I hope you're right but corporations follow their own interests, they can kill GNU Linux too.

Everyone follows their own interests!  The benefit of open-source / Linux is that no one interest has control.  Don't equate that freedom with being anti-commercial / anti-capitalist - that's evidently untrue anyway, just look at the contributors to the Linux kernel (Red Hat, Intel, IBM, Microsoft!).  We have quite different political views, but quite similar views around Linux / FLOSS - that is its key strength.  You do a disservice to Linux by narrowing its field-of-view!  Wink

Yes, am using Oracle's JDK, not Open JDK. I can't recall what prompted me to do this. I do recall it was tricky making it the default, getting it to work with Apache Tomcat and Ant, etc., ...
OpenJDK, I could see being more in the "spirit" of Linux.

OpenJDK 7 is the reference version of Java 7, and almost all the code in Oracle's JDK is the same as OpenJDK - there's not much reason to use Oracle's JDK if you're using Java 7.  This is one of the reasons Oracle withdrew the license that allowed Linux distros to ship their version.

If you do want to install Oracle's JDK and you're on a Debian based distro you should use the update-alternatives method of switching between them - see http://alexander.holbreich.org/2011/11/java-7-on-debian/  If you don't want to use the command line to switch between them, you can use Galternatives.  I use the same thing to switch back-and-forth between OpenJDK 6 & 7 for testing purposes at the moment.


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Offline princec

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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #72 - Posted 2013-06-03 13:56:51 »

We exclusively use OpenJDK 7 on Linux.

Cas Smiley

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #73 - Posted 2013-06-03 14:36:54 »

Yeah, I did.  I just said Sun because that's what Mojang said.  I guess Oracle bought Sun so it is now Oracle's, though I really don't know the history of that at all.

Well... that's it. Oracle bought Sun, Oracle now owns the Java brand and the reference implementation. So now its Oracle Java, not Sun Java.

Sun Java was better IMO, Oracle doesn't give one hoot about backwards compatibility.
Offline nsigma
« Reply #74 - Posted 2013-06-03 14:56:01 »

Sun Java was better IMO, Oracle doesn't give one hoot about backwards compatibility.

I thought Sun's approach to backwards compatibility was not to bother developing anything at all?!  Grin

Seriously, you want to back up that statement with anything?  IMO, Java is doing much better than the last few years under Sun.

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Offline princec

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« Reply #75 - Posted 2013-06-03 15:27:18 »

Indeed, they're beginning to take security more seriously, and the roadmap for Java 8 and beyond is more ambitious than anything we've seen for a decade.

Cas Smiley

Offline gimbal

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Medals: 25



« Reply #76 - Posted 2013-06-03 17:37:10 »

Sun Java was better IMO, Oracle doesn't give one hoot about backwards compatibility.

Seriously, you want to back up that statement with anything?  IMO, Java is doing much better than the last few years under Sun.

He, I guess I'm the only one that regularly haunts the OTN forums Wink I try to find the relevant posts, but so far I'm not having any luck using the shitty search function of that soon to be replaced forum... One of the latest ones that pretty much made me believe that Oracle is capable of changing anything without even mentioning it is that in Java 7 certain methods in Swing which were documented to be thread safe no longer are. A good example is JTextComponent.setText().

Java 6 version: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/javax/swing/text/JTextComponent.html#setText%28java.lang.String%29
Java 7 version: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/swing/text/JTextComponent.html#setText%28java.lang.String%29

Note how in the java 6 version the javadoc explicitly mentions that the method is thread safe, while in the Java 7 version this has disappeared. Rightfully so - the method really is no longer thread safe.
Offline nsigma
« Reply #77 - Posted 2013-06-03 17:54:49 »

Rightfully so - the method really is no longer thread safe.

Well this and this would suggest they were never thread safe, and the documentation was fixed leaving the behaviour still backwards compatible!  It would also suggest the bug and resolution were in Sun's time.  I'm not suggesting either Sun or Oracle capable of writing code without bugs, or that Java is always 100% backwards compatible (though pretty darn good!), just that I don't believe there's been any major change in attitude towards the importance of backwards compatibility.  I'm still standing by the assertion that your comment is unjustified!  Wink

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Offline Oskuro

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Coding in Style


« Reply #78 - Posted 2013-06-03 19:58:12 »

Well, there are no antiviruses for Linux.

False, and the whole "you don't need an antivirus on Linux" attitude is rather naive.

Yes, a Linux system is harder for a virus to infiltrate, and yes, there are fewer Linux-specific viruses out there (mostly due to platform popularity). But:

  a) That could very well change in the future

  b) It depends on what you are using your Linux box for.

As an example of b), if I set up, say, a Linux web server hosting user submitted content, I'd want to have an antivirus checking the uploads, if only to prevent spreading infections to whoever connects to the server.


In any case, relying on dogma is hardly a good position. Being inflexible is what eventually leads to the very bad mistakes. If with the advent of Steam on Linux some crafty crafter releases a batch of Linux-specific viruses capable of infiltrating the OS's defenses, all those "Linux does not need an antivirus" types will be the first to suffer the consequences, not because of the virus, but because their dogmatic mindset will prevent them from adapting once someone warns them of the impending virspocalypse.


Man, I'm grumpy today.

Offline deepthought
« Reply #79 - Posted 2013-06-03 21:09:13 »

well at least for linux we have the whole open source community to fix vulnerabilities Grin

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Offline Oskuro

JGO Knight


Medals: 39
Exp: 6 years


Coding in Style


« Reply #80 - Posted 2013-06-04 01:33:43 »

 Truly the update manager is the most frequently used program! (not that I'm complaining Wink )

Offline Agro
« Reply #81 - Posted 2013-06-04 05:27:15 »

The best thing about linux is its vast use of terminal. it practically lets you do anything, whereas command prompt on windows limits you and its commands are bloated.

I switched back to windows 7 for a brief amount of time. After this im going to arch or something.

Offline kpars

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Medals: 75
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Radirius Software Developer


« Reply #82 - Posted 2013-06-04 05:44:51 »

The biggest reason I started using Linux (I got really into it about a year ago) is customization and the fact it's free.
You get Linux and you can do anything with it, that's what I love. "Do-It-Yourself" distributions like Arch Linux make that feeling even stronger Smiley

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Offline ReBirth
« Reply #83 - Posted 2013-06-04 06:17:59 »

Linux may kick virus away but it really depends on the user itself. For example this

Offline gimbal

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Medals: 25



« Reply #84 - Posted 2013-06-04 10:34:28 »

Rightfully so - the method really is no longer thread safe.

Well this and this would suggest they were never thread safe
Ouch, counter-proof. That hurts a lot.

Quote
I'm still standing by the assertion that your comment is unjustified!  Wink

Perhaps it is. Perhaps in time I will collect enough examples that convinces you Wink Who cares anyway, so far the cases I've seen people run into were all in parts that relate to security in some way or another.
Offline nsigma
« Reply #85 - Posted 2013-06-04 11:03:08 »

Perhaps in time I will collect enough examples that convinces you Wink Who cares anyway ...

LOL.  Everyone should care about backwards compatibility, but I can probably counter as many examples you give with earlier ones under Sun!  Wink  It's just too damn fashionable to sling mud at Oracle.  Some of it is justified (Google court case?) but a lot isn't.  As @princec said earlier, Java development is healthier and more ambitious than it's been in years, and IMO Oracle has shown far more community engagement and support for open (source) development of and around the Java platform than Sun was doing in its death throws.

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Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #86 - Posted 2013-06-04 11:38:08 »

Perhaps in time I will collect enough examples that convinces you Wink Who cares anyway ...

It's just too damn fashionable to sling mud at Oracle.

Actually I've made the same statement at one time or another :/ I'll retreat into a shadowy corner and rethink my actions for a bit.
Offline Oskuro

JGO Knight


Medals: 39
Exp: 6 years


Coding in Style


« Reply #87 - Posted 2013-06-04 12:44:52 »

One reason I use Linux: I don't want to use Windows.

And not because of performance or software availability, but out of principle. I don't agree with the direction they are going for (forcing all software through their App Store and all that Apple-style pro-captive market crap).

My current Windows installation is the pre-installed one on my laptop, which I didn't get an option not to have.

I'm not even willing to pirate Windows.

Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #88 - Posted 2013-06-04 15:49:23 »

I assume you could go so far as to nuke your computer then install Linux.  I believe that would work.  I just keep Windows because I still play games every now and then and most of my favorites are Windows-only.  If I can setup Wine to run Steam and use my Windows drive for my games, that would work great, but I have no idea if I can do that.

Also because I have quite a bit of software that is Windows, and I like Windows right now.  I assume once they bug me constantly to switch to Windows 8 or software is made incompatible with Windows 7 I'm done with Windows.
Offline Oskuro

JGO Knight


Medals: 39
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Coding in Style


« Reply #89 - Posted 2013-06-04 16:10:33 »

Since I already own that copy of windows, i'm OK using it, I just don't want to further support the OS by buying more of it.

Of course they'll force it down my throat once I buy a new laptop.

In any case, I wanted to offer a reason to switch OS that has nothing to do with functionality.

It could also apply to people wanting to stop using MacOS, or Linux, or Android.


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