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  XBox One  (Read 15158 times)
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Offline Cero
« Posted 2013-05-23 19:51:57 »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KbWgUO-Rqcw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/KbWgUO-Rqcw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

Needless to say, I was not impressed.

Offline wreed12345

JGO Knight


Medals: 25
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2013-05-23 19:55:02 »

it seems all these next gen consoles are "entertainment" based

Offline Longor1996
« Reply #2 - Posted 2013-05-23 20:03:46 »

The XBoxOne has 3 operating systems running at the same time.
One of them uses a slightly modified Windows-NT kernel.
Doesn't that mean one could run a JVM on it?

- Longor1996

Sorry for my bad English! That's because i am from Germany.
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Offline Mike

JGO Wizard


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« Reply #3 - Posted 2013-05-23 20:24:22 »

Currently they plan to require an internet access once every 24 hours, but that might change.

As for indies... every single game will require a publisher.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline Cero
« Reply #4 - Posted 2013-05-23 20:47:24 »

Currently they plan to require an internet access once every 24 hours, but that might change.

As for indies... every single game will require a publisher.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

Mike
Well considering they killed XNA, not that surprising.

Also 8 core cpu ? why make the same mistake ps3 already did ?
And I love how they were like "yeah USB 3... aaaand wifi already inside the box!" wow... every ps3 and even every wii had that, but yeah I forgot MS sold those seperatly for the XBox 360 at an extreme price... then you buy it and your Xbox360 got a RROD  :D
I have yet to find a single aspect of the XBox One that seems remotely cooler than PS4. Please tell me one D:

Edit: I do like dogs... :D

Offline cheatsguy

Junior Duke


Medals: 3


Gamer turned Pixel Artist turned Programmer


« Reply #5 - Posted 2013-05-23 20:51:58 »

It would seem they're forgetting and/or ignoring/screwing over a large portion of gamers, in favor of "tv, tv, tv, watch sports, tv."

Busy between school, work, life, games, programming and general screwing around.
If you'd like some pixel art for your game, send me a PM, i'll see what I can do.
Current project: http://elementalwarblog.wordpress.com/
Offline pitbuller
« Reply #6 - Posted 2013-05-23 20:59:26 »

Currently they plan to require an internet access once every 24 hours, but that might change.

As for indies... every single game will require a publisher.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

Mike
Well considering they killed XNA, not that surprising.

Also 8 core cpu ? why make the same mistake ps3 already did ?
And I love how they were like "yeah USB 3... aaaand wifi already inside the box!" wow... every ps3 and even every wii had that, but yeah I forgot MS sold those seperatly for the XBox 360 at an extreme price... then you buy it and your Xbox360 got a RROD  Cheesy
I have yet to find a single aspect of the XBox One that seems remotely cooler than PS4. Please tell me one D:

Edit: I do like dogs... Cheesy

Using 8 normal cores isn't problem. Using myrid Cell architecture is. Heck there are even mobile devices with 8 cores.
Also Os and kinect might use one or two those cores so maybe you have only 6 for yourself.
Offline Cero
« Reply #7 - Posted 2013-05-23 21:08:37 »

Currently they plan to require an internet access once every 24 hours, but that might change.

As for indies... every single game will require a publisher.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

Mike
Well considering they killed XNA, not that surprising.

Also 8 core cpu ? why make the same mistake ps3 already did ?
And I love how they were like "yeah USB 3... aaaand wifi already inside the box!" wow... every ps3 and even every wii had that, but yeah I forgot MS sold those seperatly for the XBox 360 at an extreme price... then you buy it and your Xbox360 got a RROD  Cheesy
I have yet to find a single aspect of the XBox One that seems remotely cooler than PS4. Please tell me one D:

Edit: I do like dogs... Cheesy

Using 8 normal cores isn't problem. Using myrid Cell architecture is. Heck there are even mobile devices with 8 cores.
Also Os and kinect might use one or two those cores so maybe you have only 6 for yourself.

Yeah it wasn't clear; it's all about the architecture, but even XBox360 wasn't as good as the PS4 wants to be since they used PowerPC
but yeah, I guess it won't be an issue

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


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« Reply #8 - Posted 2013-05-23 22:09:15 »

I've been following the Xbox One since the live presentation on Tuesday and I was also not impressed. Also the almost-always online connection with the temporary allowed offline gameplay, the murdering of the used game market (games are now tied to your account and you have to pay a fee to use on another account), the lack of focus on games but TV TV TV sports sports SPAAWWTS TV TV, etc....

Offline Agro
« Reply #9 - Posted 2013-05-23 22:50:08 »

I think they're trying to make some everyday application thing, not some legit console.

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Offline tberthel
« Reply #10 - Posted 2013-05-23 23:25:58 »

I think the Xbox One has some nice features.  They put the focus on TV since that is probably the market they think will pay for the console.  Pushing the small developers away will destroy any long term growth regardless of how great the device might be.

Offline Kerai

Junior Duke


Medals: 4



« Reply #11 - Posted 2013-05-23 23:27:25 »

As far as I remember, long time ago Steve Ballmer said he likes idea of world, where people have no privacy... or something like that, anyway he was into surveillance.

Now looking at Xbox One, the device that is 24/7 on in your living room, with camera and microphone always on, always watching you... That guy wasn't joking, I bet Microsoft has some secret agreement with the government, so they can monitor all xbox users without their knowledge.
Offline pitbuller
« Reply #12 - Posted 2013-05-23 23:36:16 »

As far as I remember, long time ago Steve Ballmer said he likes idea of world, where people have no privacy... or something like that, anyway he was into surveillance.


Source(for Ballmers saying) or it's not true.
Offline Zhon

Junior Duke


Medals: 4



« Reply #13 - Posted 2013-05-23 23:44:59 »

Not really interested in that. I personally don't see why would they give taht attention to a feature like ...TV.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

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Hand over your head.


« Reply #14 - Posted 2013-05-23 23:49:35 »

They want to own your living room / bed room, they want all entertainment to be tied to their device. Besides playing games, that includes tv, watching movies, playing music, handling your video Skype conversations.

Once they own your sense of entertainment, they can sell things to you that they know you like.


Oh, and don't forget to login to all your social networks, so they know even better how to part you from your money. Trust me, you'll love it and pay up proudly, because they know how to press your buttons.

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Offline theagentd
« Reply #15 - Posted 2013-05-24 00:41:30 »

Been reading here and in a lot of other places, and to be honest it's a piece of sh*t when it comes to hardware.



Let's start with the least worst of the three: the CPU. Just like the PS4 the Xbox One (not to be confused with the first Xbox -_-) features an 8-core Jaguar CPU rumored to run at around 1.6 GHz. Sounds low? Not really. Theoretical performance should be around a mid-end quad core at 3GHz. The fact that both consoles use x86 CPUs will be a huge advantage though. Hopefully the much more familiar architecture will bring much better threading to PC games, and considering that most games only use 2 cores (Battlefield 3 being a notable exception) we clearly need that. Lots of new games have suffered from ridiculous CPU bottlenecks lately, but I digress. The CPU is decent and much easier to code for thanks to the x86 architecture, but remember that it's supposed to last 10 years at least...

On to the GPU! The PS4 had a pretty decent GPU pretty much matching the performance of the just released $149 AMD HD7790 (more cores but lower clock speed, almost identical theoretical performance). Needless to say, a $149 low-mid-end GPU is going to be shit in ten years, but at least we'll get more widespread use of tessellation and other "new" hardware features. The new Xbox killed all my hopes of meaningful graphics advancements in games for the near future considering it's around 2/3 as fast as the PS4 GPU. As a comparison, the high-end $379.99 AMD HD7970 is more than 3x faster than the new Xbox's GPU and more than 2x as fast as the PS4's GPU. Yes, it's a lot more expensive, but this GPU is supposed to last for 10 years. 10. Horrible. Years for game graphics. But the sh*t storm doesn't end there. No, no, no...

And here we have the winner: The memory! Oh, god, did they mess this one up. So for the PS4 they smacked in 8GBs of GDDR5 memory with a 176GB/sec bus which is shared between the CPU and the GPU. This is a GREAT idea. The huge amount of bandwidth is high-end PC quality to say the least, and the unified memory architecture is brilliant for consoles since it allows for some excellent optimizations to cram out the most of both the CPU and the GPU. The only thing that may work against them slightly is using high-latency GDDR5 memory for the CPU (commonly used for graphics memory), but I'd definitely say that it's better to use GDDR5 than normal DDR3 memory which would completely kill GPU bandwidth. The Xbox however got it all wrong. First of all they went for DDR3 memory for their 8GBs of shared memory. This memory has a massive bandwidth of... 34.132GB/sec which is supposed to be shared by both the CPU and the GPU. How bad is that? Consider this: At 60 FPS and a bandwidth of 176GB/sec you can read (and write?) almost 3GBs per frame of data assuming you never read the same data twice (uncached). So wait, you can't actually even use those 8GBs of memory each frame?! Well, fair enough, not all parts of all textures are needed all the time, large chunks aren't being read or written to all the time, etc, so 176GB/sec decent. 34.132GB/sec however is not. That's around 568MBs per frame. Seriously, look at that number. They do seem to have some kind of local memory for both the CPU and the GPU with higher bandwidth, but that memory still has to be copied to and from the uber-slow system RAM.

They do have one final ace up their sleeves though: eSRAM! The GPU has direct access to a 166GB/sec memory, which is a very similar setup to the Xbox 360 (if you know what that means, you scream "F*CK!"). Now 166GB/sec isn't bad at all! This memory is supposed to used for render targets to facilitate high-speed depth testing, blending, etc. So why is this such a horrible idea? It's 32MB large. Re-read that. 32 megabytes large. This is the part where you scream "F*CK!". So you have 32 megabytes of fast GPU memory for render targets. Even a minimal G-buffer requires at least 2 fullscreen RGBA16F plus a depth buffer. That's (8+8+4) bytes per pixel. That makes a 1920x1080 G-buffer 39.55078125MBs large, meaning that it has to be rendered in two passes which is impossible with the dead slow GPU. Want shadow mapping too? You'll have to fit the shadow map in that memory too. The "solution" is to use fake HDR (which they will do) and use lower resolutions (which they will do). Anti-aliasing? Haha, very funny.

This eSRAM crap was probably the biggest complaint from Xbox 360 developers and Microsoft completely ignored them. On the other hand, Sony listened to the complaints about the complexity of the PS3's Cell processor and the lack of unified memory and did pretty much everything right with the PS4.



TL;DR: Will it be possible to port PS4 games to the Xbox One? Yes. Will the graphics look horrible compared to the PS4? Without a doubt. Will the architecture be a hell to program for? Definitely. Will the hardware suck in 4/6/8/10 years? It already sucks before it's been released. Will Microsoft ruin gaming? They already are.

Shame on you, Microsoft. I don't know why I expected more of you. So, does anyone know any good Linux distros and tutorials for setting up Steam? (I'm serious.)

PS: I apologize for breaking the record of the number of cuss words in a single post.

Myomyomyo.
Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #16 - Posted 2013-05-24 00:51:29 »

Normal Steam or a SteamBox setup (computer devoted to Steam)?
Offline theagentd
« Reply #17 - Posted 2013-05-24 00:53:13 »

Normal Steam.

Myomyomyo.
Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #18 - Posted 2013-05-24 01:49:18 »

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux looks helpful.  I got it working on Ubuntu earlier (don't remember exactly how) and I'm looking to switch to Fedora this weekend and will inform you how that works if you'd like.

EDIT:  I didn't really look at the link while finding it, but after looking at it it indeed looks very helpful!  I will definitely look at it when installing Steam on Fedora this weekend.
Offline heisenbergman

JGO Coder


Medals: 14


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« Reply #19 - Posted 2013-05-24 01:54:38 »

I was never a console person after the SNES, so I don't really have much vested interest in this new gen of consoles, but I hate how this Xbox One thing is seemingly trying to cripple the used games market by charging an installation fee on each succeeding install of the game after the first. At least that's how it's going to work afaik.

If that's true, I think it's horrible.

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

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Hand over your head.


« Reply #20 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:02:38 »

I hate how this Xbox One thing is seemingly trying to cripple the used games market by charging an installation fee on each succeeding install of the game after the first. At least that's how it's going to work afaik.

If that's true, I think it's horrible.
Much less 'horrible' than Steam then - they don't allow reselling used games at all.

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Offline heisenbergman

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Medals: 14


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« Reply #21 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:05:37 »

Okay Steam, you are horrible as well... persecutioncomplex

Offline ReBirth
« Reply #22 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:09:43 »

Glad I didn't invest time to learn XBLIG

And wow no new Halo game!

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #23 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:10:15 »

What are you talking about, Steam is amazing - only major game center for pc. Steam doesn't allow used games because 99% of the game purchases are virtual, and because you can always logon to your account on any computer running Steam. Compared to consoles - still majority of sales through disks, and xboxes are much less common than pcs.
Offline heisenbergman

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« Reply #24 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:14:01 »

What are you talking about, Steam is amazing...
*points finger at Riven* Pointing

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #25 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:17:12 »

Riven didn't say Steam was bad, he just said Steam didn't allow used games.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 816
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #26 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:17:27 »

Disks will disappear within a few years. Mark my words... or not, your choice really, who am I to tell you to mark words, go outside, smell a tree hugger.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Agro
« Reply #27 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:18:56 »

I don't think used games matter that much on PC games. I think the lack of it will affect steambox somehow.

Offline heisenbergman

JGO Coder


Medals: 14


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« Reply #28 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:22:24 »

Riven didn't say Steam was bad, he just said Steam didn't allow used games.
omg why so serious Tongue

Offline relminator
« Reply #29 - Posted 2013-05-24 02:47:30 »

I'm a guy who likes to play games on the console but these last gen consoles are just ridiculous!

The wii u is floundering due to lack of games and outdated hardware.

The ps4 when it gets released would make my wallet cry.

The xbox one needing net at least once a day and they killed xblig thereby killing doujin shmups.

Offline gaming where art though?
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