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  Steam Questions  (Read 4163 times)
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Offline gene9

Senior Member


Medals: 10



« Posted 2013-03-31 04:23:32 »

How much control do they take in pricing?

If you also sell your game through other channels, are you allowed to set the Steam price to reflecte the revenue share taken by Steam?

Are you allowed to openly discuss the terms of the contract? Are you even allowed to answer these questions?

What other rights do you need to sign away to participate?
Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2013-03-31 10:47:06 »

I know that there are NDAs.

However there are plenty of posts around were people strongly sugest what the terms are. At least the companies i know who have products on steam are under non exclusive. ie they are allowed to sell it else where. They never wanted to sell it cheaper than steam. Also steam IIRC can do promotions and sell your game cheaper at times. Since you get advertising these guys didn't complain much since it increased their total income quite a bit. Their next game they are going to use steam exclusively since its just easier and really quite a good rate (30% was whispered under a table somewhere). Compare to traditional distributors, where they can often take 50% or more *and* then take advertising and promotion out of your cut!

Cas will probably chime in. But again most of us do take our NDA's seriously. Even more so with companies where we feel they are at least being honest. Which is certainly steams reputation to a point.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline cheatsguy

Junior Member


Medals: 3


Gamer turned Pixel Artist turned Programmer


« Reply #2 - Posted 2013-03-31 14:00:06 »

Steam is not exclusive, but remember all the benefits you (and your users!) are getting through steam. I would say sell it at the same price, since their cut isn't absolutely huge (or so I've heard).

Busy between school, work, life, games, programming and general screwing around.
If you'd like some pixel art for your game, send me a PM, i'll see what I can do.
Current project: http://elementalwarblog.wordpress.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #3 - Posted 2013-04-02 19:06:40 »

Steam is the very definition of "exclusive" in that they only allow games on their that they feel like allowing on there. Don't be fooled by Greenlight.

Technically we cannot tell you anything about Steam or Valve or how they operate but I can probably get away with saying that a lot depends on just how much clout you have in the world at large. To put this in to perspective, Puppygames jumps when they say jump, and we grovellingly accept whatever crumbs they throw us.

Cas Smiley

Online Cero
« Reply #4 - Posted 2013-04-02 22:35:18 »

Yeah Greenlight is great in the sense that the submitting process is actually well defined now.
But it didn't make it easier.
Basically to get onto Steam, you already have to be "quite successful/popular".
But hey, Steam said they may be making it even more easy - but you know, its of course also a good thing: if anyone could just have their games on Steam, it would be flooded and one would hardly benefit from being on Steam. Kinda like Google Play...

Offline gene9

Senior Member


Medals: 10



« Reply #5 - Posted 2013-04-08 17:14:41 »

Steam is the very definition of "exclusive" in that they only allow games on their that they feel like allowing on there. Don't be fooled by Greenlight.

Technically we cannot tell you anything about Steam or Valve or how they operate but I can probably get away with saying that a lot depends on just how much clout you have in the world at large. To put this in to perspective, Puppygames jumps when they say jump, and we grovellingly accept whatever crumbs they throw us.

Cas Smiley

It is outrageous that Valve is making demands of an indie developer and collecting a share of the revenue on a completely externally developed game.

Why, do you support this service? Why grovel to them for crumbs? This is an outrage!
Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #6 - Posted 2013-04-09 10:38:19 »

It is outrageous that Valve is making demands of an indie developer and collecting a share of the revenue on a completely externally developed game.

Why, do you support this service? Why grovel to them for crumbs? This is an outrage!

I guess princec likes to be able to eat and heat his house.
Online Cero
« Reply #7 - Posted 2013-04-09 15:44:19 »

its the standard price for portals like these and steam is THE portal

if anything criticize the standard market place... but then again that comes from basic economy...

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2013-04-09 18:46:30 »

Steam make us 10x more money than we make on our lonesome. They've captured a fairly significant % of the mainstream PC gamer market, and by captured, I mean that customers are generally increasingly unwilling to shop anywhere else and finding the ones that do is very very hard and expensive.

Cas Smiley

Offline pitbuller
« Reply #9 - Posted 2013-04-09 18:56:34 »

It's quite good deal that you can sell game by your own and give steam code to customers. See how games at Humble Bundle does. Steam benefit from that by gaining new users. Portals are all about users and Steam have plenty those.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 66
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #10 - Posted 2013-04-09 19:14:31 »

Steam does a great job of giving gamers a place where they can easily find awesome new games, find good deals on those games, and make installing and managing these games pretty much painless (they Just Work... most of the time). Part of the value that Steam offers is exactly in making developers work really, really hard to get their game on Steam. When I'm looking around in the Steam store, I see games that pretty much all have some value, are worth at least a little bit of my attention and I'm not overwhelmed with the gazillionth tetris clone. That does make it worth 30% of the games I buy as far as I'm concerned.

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #11 - Posted 2013-04-10 12:11:23 »

Steam make us 10x more money than we make on our lonesome. They've captured a fairly significant % of the mainstream PC gamer market, and by captured, I mean that customers are generally increasingly unwilling to shop anywhere else and finding the ones that do is very very hard and expensive.

Cas Smiley

Guilty.

Steam has some annoyances (slow connecting, odd way of pagination that is NOT REMEMBERED WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE PAGINATED LIST grmbl grmbl grmbl), but I love not having to have all the games not physically lying around or installed, auto-patching, steam workshop, easy play with friends and I'm not too ashamed to say: I like all the commercialism. Give me the offers, recommend me the stuff based on previous purchases, show me what friends are buying and playing. 99/100 times, it is actually prudent information as apposed to other similar services (Google, for example). I figured out that the remake of Another World was available on steam because a friend bought it; I added it to my wishlist to easily buy it later (I buy in bulk) and promptly got it as a gift from someone. I love this shit.
Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #12 - Posted 2013-04-10 12:21:35 »

I'll admit, if I can't get a game as a physical box or through Steam(And I'd like to be able to add my physical boxed game to Steam too), then odds are I wont be buying it.

(Plus, I think Steam has made it less viable to download pirated games, because it's just that much easier to get them through Steam, instead of having to deal with loads of cracks, and what not.)
Online Cero
« Reply #13 - Posted 2013-04-10 13:46:06 »

(Plus, I think Steam has made it less viable to download pirated games, because it's just that much easier to get them through Steam, instead of having to deal with loads of cracks, and what not.)

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I have been saying.
The only way to really fight piracy is making the legal way more easy , comfortable and enjoyable.

Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #14 - Posted 2013-04-10 14:16:52 »

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I have been saying.
The only way to really fight piracy is making the legal way more easy , comfortable and enjoyable.

I couldn't agree more, and that's what Steam has gotten exactly right.
Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 66
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #15 - Posted 2013-04-10 16:37:26 »

Yup, and I'm waiting for the same to happen to the movie rental market in Holland. The legal offerings are still a pile of crap.

Offline gene9

Senior Member


Medals: 10



« Reply #16 - Posted 2013-04-11 19:13:18 »

Steam make us 10x more money than we make on our lonesome. They've captured a fairly significant % of the mainstream PC gamer market, and by captured, I mean that customers are generally increasingly unwilling to shop anywhere else and finding the ones that do is very very hard and expensive.

Wow.

I see Steam has gotten several things right:

1) Central service to manage licenses for all your games
2) Central service to browse your game collection and launch a game
3) Central automated patching
4) Ability to redownload on to any PC
5) Central sales and promotions
6) Auto recommendation of similar games.
7) Central Achievement/Trophy type system for all games
Cool See what friends have purchased.

Is that a comprehensive list?

Almost all of these features are standard on smartphone/tablet/console marketplaces but have been absent from PCs.

Traditional *nix app repos has a few of these, but is non-game centric, and is for free, non-licensed software only.

It seems like the effort in building/maintaining a service like this is relatively low to the amount of money they are raking in. This seems ripe for a good competitor.
Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #17 - Posted 2013-04-11 19:32:11 »

Well, Steam has been out longer than more or less all smartphones(Steam was released in ~2003), soooo... ^_^

But yeah, they've gotten a heck of a lot of things right.
Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #18 - Posted 2013-04-12 13:59:26 »

4) Ability to redownload on to any PC

With any OS supported by the game.

Quote
Central Achievement/Trophy type system for all games

The games all use the same system, but not ALL games actually have achievements of course. some of them, like Borderlands 2, have Steam achievements AND still maintain an internal achievement system on top of it. Something like global achievements and local (example: per character) achievements.

9) ability to manage (categorize and run) non-steam games inside the Steam interface anyway
10) The overlay is a really nice feature, which is even available in non-steam games (most anyway)
11) built in voice chat function
12) localized payment methods (Ex. in the Netherlands you can pay with the NL specific "iDeal", which is the bane of my existence since buying games is almost literally 3 clicks for me)

...
Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #19 - Posted 2013-04-12 18:33:00 »

10) The overlay is a really nice feature, which is even available in non-steam games (most anyway)
11) built in voice chat function

I actually very rarely use the overlay, and I've never ever in my life used their voice chat function. Tongue Didn't think anyone used their voice chat, to be honest. With Skype, Mumble, etc. etc. etc.
Offline gene9

Senior Member


Medals: 10



« Reply #20 - Posted 2013-04-15 02:47:39 »

But yeah, they've gotten a heck of a lot of things right.

These are all very simple features relatively easy to implement.

Ideally, some awesome group of programmers would build a free or nearly-free Amazon/Google cloud hosted alternative and liberate game developers from having to beg for crumbs, sign over rights, and hand over large cuts of revenue Smiley
Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #21 - Posted 2013-04-15 05:13:18 »

People forget sometimes its not just what you can get on the service, but also what you can't get. That is if its on steam its probably of at least a particular standard, or at the least will "mostly work". While any free or almost free implies no curation (that costs time and money) which means any old piece of crap, and malware gets on.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #22 - Posted 2013-04-15 08:35:16 »

That's not really the case; there is some surprising dross released on Steam.

Steam's greatest value now is in the value-added community features.

Cas Smiley

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #23 - Posted 2013-04-15 16:15:57 »

10) The overlay is a really nice feature, which is even available in non-steam games (most anyway)
11) built in voice chat function

I actually very rarely use the overlay

Aha, a good reason to use the overlay since very recently:

13) ability for users to upload guides, videos and maps for games, which you can access directly from within the overlay while playing
Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #24 - Posted 2013-04-16 07:01:48 »

Aha, a good reason to use the overlay since very recently:

13) ability for users to upload guides, videos and maps for games, which you can access directly from within the overlay while playing

Arh, but I don't use the guides, videos or maps either. xD Though admittedly it's cool that it's available within easy reach. Smiley
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #25 - Posted 2013-04-16 07:48:46 »

It's worth pointing out that all the Steam value-add stuff is actually of great benefit to us developers as well - they've got global scoreboards, achievements, stats on achievements (you don't realise how important that is until you, er, realise), forums, in-app-purchase stuff, DRM, custom executable generation, etc. It's all good. There is of course the massive fear that they are now "the gatekeeper" and they can literally choose whatever % they should choose to and that's the end of it. You know that we make <10% of all our money through direct sales? And that figure is falling monthly. Steam have completely won, and it would be fair to say that Puppygames is no longer an indie developer; we are fundamentally dependent on Steam for our survival now, which sucks on so many levels I don't even want to think about it.

Make hay while the sun shines.

Cas Smiley

Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #26 - Posted 2013-04-16 08:52:05 »

You know for most people the distributor they sign with becomes the master of their destiny. It is highly unlikely that you can get another deal if the first deal turns sour.

As for a gatekeeper. Yea they are a bit. And its a concern. If they really stuff it up and do something stupid. I think you will see different services popping up. And lets face it, its better than amazon being the gate keeper. At least for now.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #27 - Posted 2013-04-16 09:52:35 »

Valve are entirely non-exclusive and hands-off in their approach. It's actually the "wisdom of the crowds" which is perpetuating their market dominance. There are competitors but honestly, they're nowhere, just microbes in Steam's pond.

Cas Smiley

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #28 - Posted 2013-04-17 15:07:10 »

Funny how Valve was once praised into the heavens because they created Half-Life (and HL2, epicness) and now they are automatically turning into an evil organization because Steam has exploded in popularity Smiley
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #29 - Posted 2013-04-17 18:44:22 »

There's some saying about things turning evil by default whether they realise it or not... a bit like how we, no matter how angelic and good we think we are, can't help but tread on ants and kill them just walking along.

Cas Smiley

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