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  Java on PS4!  (Read 35387 times)
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Offline erikd

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Maximumisness


« Reply #150 - Posted 2013-07-25 20:17:11 »

Not much point for a section regarding java gamedev on consoles until it's actually supported on a console

You're at the wrong end of the chicken-egg argument. The point here is to get java working on PS4 and putting an effort in.

Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #151 - Posted 2013-07-25 20:19:17 »

Not much point for a section regarding java gamedev on consoles until it's actually supported on a console

You're at the wrong end of the chicken-egg argument. The point here is to get java working on PS4 and putting an effort in.

Exactly! So Erik, would you post on the suggestions thread about this? If they say no, pm me or i pm you.. I have a plan B.
Offline princec

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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #152 - Posted 2013-07-25 21:01:27 »

I'm a bit disappointed that Cas isn't the least bit interested (or even frustrated about the whole console thing). I'm sure he has his reasons, but I think his games could be great 'poster-boy' games in this context. At least one good game as a proof-of-concept is really necessary in this project, in my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to, but I'm keeping a roof over my head now with games dev so I can't devote time to fun or hobbies any more, ironically. And I really don't know that many people here know just was assholes Microsoft and Sony are to work with. You really have no idea at all. It's mind boggling. Viva la desktop!

If you really want to get in on console development... consider making something worthy of Valve's attention, and make something for the Steambox.

Cas Smiley

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #153 - Posted 2013-07-25 21:30:12 »

Ok erikd but where do we start? If the console needs to be "jailbroken" to run a JVM, it will be only useful for homebrew projects. If we think about the JVM as a library, we can use AvianVM or RoboVM but we have no PS4 to give it a try  Clueless

Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #154 - Posted 2013-07-25 21:41:31 »

Ok erikd but where do we start? If the console needs to be "jailbroken" to run a JVM, it will be only useful for homebrew projects. If we think about the JVM as a library, we can use AvianVM or RoboVM but we have no PS4 to give it a try  Clueless

We start with our own forum section.
Then we  research and find the best method. It wont need to be jailbroken.
Offline HeroesGraveDev

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┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


« Reply #155 - Posted 2013-07-25 21:59:35 »

For some reason, I don't see this going anywhere... Emo

(EDIT: Sorry for being the pessimist, but that's usually where these ideas go.)

Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #156 - Posted 2013-07-26 00:45:44 »

I don't think you need a whole forum section.  Probably just a thread (this one could do) and an IRC channel, then a GitHub repository when you decide what to do would suffice.  A whole forum section would be a bit too much.

Also, I'm kind of with HeroesGraveDev.  It seems too ambitious to me.  I don't trust that it will get Sony's attention at all.
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #157 - Posted 2013-07-26 02:12:30 »

Here's a wild thought: maybe wait for the PS4 to actually be out before demanding a forum section for it.

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #158 - Posted 2013-07-26 02:41:25 »

I don't think you need a whole forum section.  Probably just a thread (this one could do) and an IRC channel, then a GitHub repository when you decide what to do would suffice.  A whole forum section would be a bit too much.

Also, I'm kind of with HeroesGraveDev.  It seems too ambitious to me.  I don't trust that it will get Sony's attention at all.
Thank you, that's what I was trying to say.
Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #159 - Posted 2013-07-26 02:57:49 »

I think we should all give up.
In Life too, because our lifes wont call sony attention. Or Microsoft.
So we just should give up on life, start using drugs. Get solar rays and get a cancer.


Plus, why dont we give up on java and try C or C++ ?

THIS IDEA TOTALLY SUCKS, IT WILL GO NOWHERE! SERIOUSLY, WHOEVER HAD THIS IDEA IS DUMB.

/IRONY OFF.

================
You get my point.
If you think it wont work, well....

//
Ok, so we make an IRC Channel, its fine by me. and a topic.



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Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 139
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #160 - Posted 2013-07-26 03:13:24 »

I think we should all give up.
In Life too, because our lifes wont call sony attention. Or Microsoft.
So we just should give up on life, start using drugs. Get solar rays and get a cancer.


Plus, why dont we give up on java and try C or C++ ?

THIS IDEA TOTALLY SUCKS, IT WILL GO NOWHERE! SERIOUSLY, WHOEVER HAD THIS IDEA IS DUMB.

/IRONY OFF.

================
You get my point.
If you think it wont work, well....

//
Ok, so we make an IRC Channel, its fine by me. and a topic.




The irony is both not funny and not appreciated. If you're a programmer you want to think pragmatically - why do you think no one makes a 3d MMORPG as their first project?
Offline HeroesGraveDev

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« Reply #161 - Posted 2013-07-26 03:36:48 »

I think we should all give up.
In Life too, because our lifes wont call sony attention. Or Microsoft.
So we just should give up on life, start using drugs. Get solar rays and get a cancer.


Plus, why dont we give up on java and try C or C++ ?

THIS IDEA TOTALLY SUCKS, IT WILL GO NOWHERE! SERIOUSLY, WHOEVER HAD THIS IDEA IS DUMB.

I stopped reading here and lol'd. Roll Eyes

Offline Cero
« Reply #162 - Posted 2013-07-26 12:09:51 »

all it needs is one person with jdk/vm knowledge and c++ and opengl knowledge, or maybe a small group and they need a PS4 devkit.

After some weeks or fiddling around and porting any great lwjgl game to this. It should be considered working.
Then you can either pitch it to Sony or keep absolutely quiet about it because you may as well simply submit games like that and Sony may not look that deeply into it and so they won't specifically disallow it.

So yeah a "JDK & LWJGL @ PS4 Task Force" and a devkit.

I already tried for one, but they wont give one to someone completely unknown - I could either register as a developer @ SONY, which I only want to do when my bigger projects are more mature; Or by convincing a professor at my university to apply for one - which is possible but I don't know if I will be doing that... I'm kinda done with those kinda projects already.
But the same applies for all of you who are either students or have enough fame / quality to register.

Then when there is devkit available we would form the "task force" and then we should know if it may work or not.

Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #163 - Posted 2013-07-26 14:15:34 »

I think we should all give up.
In Life too, because our lifes wont call sony attention. Or Microsoft.
So we just should give up on life, start using drugs. Get solar rays and get a cancer.


Plus, why dont we give up on java and try C or C++ ?

THIS IDEA TOTALLY SUCKS, IT WILL GO NOWHERE! SERIOUSLY, WHOEVER HAD THIS IDEA IS DUMB.

I stopped reading here and lol'd. Roll Eyes


Well, i tried to make a point haha.
But Cero is right. Well, if you need me, i will be in my basement writing a book of ironies.

Cheesy
Offline Zhon

Junior Devvie


Medals: 4



« Reply #164 - Posted 2013-07-26 14:24:36 »

[...]
by convincing a professor at my university to apply for one - which is possible but I don't know if I will be doing that... I'm kinda done with those kinda projects already.
But the same applies for all of you who are either students or have enough fame / quality to register.

Then when there is devkit available we would form the "task force" and then we should know if it may work or not.

This got my attention, any student of any university (related to computer programming) can get a free DevKit if a professor applies for it? In any country?
I should just google for it  persecutioncomplex
Offline Cero
« Reply #165 - Posted 2013-07-26 20:09:14 »

This got my attention, any student of any university (related to computer programming) can get a free DevKit if a professor applies for it? In any country?
I should just google for it  persecutioncomplex

Let me quote from the email I have received from SCEE after asking them:
Quote
legally registered institutions are eligible to apply, and will have to demonstrate the use of PlayStation technologies as a critical part of the teaching curriculum.

Please do approach your teaching staff to contact us though.  And they can find more information via our online application page -  www.companyregistration.playstation.com

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #166 - Posted 2013-07-26 21:00:01 »

Or by convincing a professor at my university to apply for one - which is possible but I don't know if I will be doing that... I'm kinda done with those kinda projects already.

Why is that?
I've been working with a professor the last few years to get some old (but very interesting) scripting language to work nice with Java. He had students working on it too.
Sometimes a University project just needs to be a worthwhile and interesting learning experience. If you're interested in this, why not just go for it and try to leverage whatever you can?

Offline ags1

JGO Wizard


Medals: 75
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


Make code not war!


« Reply #167 - Posted 2013-07-26 21:29:53 »

Don't knock university projects... after all, Sun Microsystems stood originally for Stanford University Network. And don't forget Facebook.

Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
Projects: 3
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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #168 - Posted 2013-07-26 22:01:51 »

This is all definitely a worthwhile endeavour, but there remains the fly in the ointment of Sony just being... useless f**kwits.

Cas Smiley

Offline deepthought
« Reply #169 - Posted 2013-07-26 22:08:16 »

Theoretically, wouldn't the Oracle java binary work on the PS4 if x-windows was installed?

jocks rule the highschools. GEEKS RULE THE WORLD MWAHAHAHA!!
captain failure test game
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #170 - Posted 2013-07-26 22:30:25 »

Theoretically, wouldn't the Oracle java binary work on the PS4 if x-windows was installed?

As far as I'm concerned, a PS4 JVM would be a 'headless' JVM, so (as far as I'm aware of) not depend on x-windows. We just want OpenGL through LWJGL & libgdx.

Offline deepthought
« Reply #171 - Posted 2013-07-27 01:05:57 »

Theoretically, wouldn't the Oracle java binary work on the PS4 if x-windows was installed?

As far as I'm concerned, a PS4 JVM would be a 'headless' JVM, so (as far as I'm aware of) not depend on x-windows. We just want OpenGL through LWJGL & libgdx.

If using package_add to install xwin and java works then: we WIN. If you want a headless JVM you can write it after you're sure it'll work.

jocks rule the highschools. GEEKS RULE THE WORLD MWAHAHAHA!!
captain failure test game
Offline Cero
« Reply #172 - Posted 2013-07-27 12:39:29 »

Or by convincing a professor at my university to apply for one - which is possible but I don't know if I will be doing that... I'm kinda done with those kinda projects already.

Why is that?

Sometimes a University project just needs to be a worthwhile and interesting learning experience.

Don't knock university projects... after all, Sun Microsystems stood originally for Stanford University Network. And don't forget Facebook.

I didn't mean it like IM DONE WITH THAT ;D
I meant Im literally finished, I only need a couple more classes and my thesis.
Projects are indeed the best thing about university, and 2 of our games were created during those.
But as far as the PS4 devkit would go: I am really not that type of programmer anyway. I dont know much C++, never done anything with it and stuff. I would be completely useless in the PS4 java task force ^^

Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #173 - Posted 2013-07-27 13:59:57 »

I say , start a new Topic, build  PS4 Task Force and lets do this. LEEEEROY
JENKINS
Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #174 - Posted 2013-07-29 15:51:30 »

Ok, so what we will do guys? Im really up to not let this die!
Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 139
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #175 - Posted 2013-07-29 17:50:06 »

Ok, so what we will do guys? Im really up to not let this die!
Instead of saying you're going to start a new topic, why don't you just start it Roll Eyes
Offline Andre Lopes
« Reply #176 - Posted 2013-07-29 19:18:11 »

Ok, so what we will do guys? Im really up to not let this die!
Instead of saying you're going to start a new topic, why don't you just start it Roll Eyes

Because im not the leader of the project. Most likely erick is Tongue
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #177 - Posted 2013-07-29 20:49:00 »

heh, by all means don't wait for me to get anything started Smiley

I'd like to contribute where I can whenever I can, but I don't think it would be wise to think of me as 'the leader' of this and lean back waiting until something happens.
People who know me here know that I'm often not here for months, and that's simply because there are times when I have too many other things that keep me busy.
And besides, those people probably also know that I'm an untalented hack anyways  Grin

If you're interested, just go for it and see how far we can take this!

Offline Jeremy
« Reply #178 - Posted 2013-08-03 02:08:22 »

Its already confirmed that C# (source & mirror) and DirectX 11 will be on PS4. However not seen any concrete information yet that OpenGL or OpenGL ES will be on PS4.

Technically OpenJDK looks very possible to port onto PS4, probably need to rewrite the OS specific bits though unless the PS4 OS is Linux or Windows NT Kernel (considering the DirectX).

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Gaikai tech (was written in Java on some clients and was Java serverside) will be a big part of PS4, so for all we know they might already have some sort of JVM for it, in addition to the Blu-Ray JVM (Interestingly the Xbox Next will also have a Blu-Ray drive, so also a JVM?).

Speaking of the Xbox Next, rumour has it that it'll use a modified version of Windows 8 and also be x86 based, so OpenJDK on there also shouldn't be impossible, although you'll probably have to have a binding to DirectX for it.

Direct3D layer != DirectX library implementation. My understanding is that it is an abstraction layer that closely models Direct3D (a sub component of DirectX - which consists of tons of libraries for game development, not just D3D) - there is no way Microsoft would license DirectX on the PS4, especially because it defeats the entire purpose of the DirectXBox One

If you want your game on a major platform and you want it in Java, the closest you're going to get is .Net on the Xbox One (and maybe Java on the PS4 if some indie developers implement a JVM) Depending on how open the Xbox One platform is to indie developers (with the introduction of isolated OS components via Virtual Machine on the Xbox One, we're likely to see indie developers trusted with more function) you might see a JVM there too (but Microsoft has always been trying to push people away from Java and onto .Net)

C# on the PS4 is definitely possible, but I am sure they will hit some legal constraints in some small areas of the implementation - or technical constraints - which can be worked around as Mono had.

That said, your C# .Net support on the PS4 will be poorer than that on the Xbox One.

I don't see how target platform being x86 makes it any more possible than before. There have been PPC implementations of the JRE as well.

JevaEngine, Latest Playthrough (This demo is networked with a centralized server model)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWA8bajpVXg
Offline erikd

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Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #179 - Posted 2013-08-05 19:45:28 »

C# on the PS4 is definitely possible, but I am sure they will hit some legal constraints in some small areas of the implementation - or technical constraints - which can be worked around as Mono had.
There is already C# on PlayStation Vita (and Android) in the form of PlayStation Mobile, so I guess legal constraints are a bit of a non-issue there.

Quote
I don't see how target platform being x86 makes it any more possible than before. There have been PPC implementations of the JRE as well.
True, but the Cell BBE wasn't as suitable for Java as we initially thought (seeing the Cell SPUs were not these symmetrical cores that we could potentially easily leverage using java threads).
The more PC-like nature of PS4 with a traditional x86 CPU makes it look that much more viable to use java.

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