Java on PS4!

[princec]

well, regarding OpenJDK - which files have incompatible licenses? Anyone know?

Cas

[nsigma]

well, regarding OpenJDK - which files have incompatible licenses? Anyone know?

(Should be) None!  The IcedTea project helped create a fully open version of OpenJDK.  There may be files in the OpenJDK build that have open-source licenses that are theoretically incompatible with the GPLv2 (eg. Apache) - haven't checked.  However, as well as the classpath exception there is the assembly exception http://openjdk.java.net/legal/exception-modules-2007-05-08.html.  That should cover both your and Roquen's concern.  Unless Roquen is talking about adding in his own GPL incompatible code to the OpenJDK build itself (as opposed to included stuff by assembly exception or additional libraries covered by classpath exception)?

Incidentally, while reading the OpenJDK FAQ to refresh my memory I noticed this

Are there any restrictions on what I can do with it?

OpenJDK is released under an well-known open-source licensing model, that places no restrictions on your ability to run OpenJDK.

Emphasis mine.  Grammar not! 

[delt0r]

How long is a piece of string? How much money does a lawyer need?

When working in the big Teleco's we went to quite a few legal meetings, some specifically about java, others the GPL (I was contributing to the kernel at the time so i was often asked about the "spirit" of GPL). This was the sun days of course. Long story short. Even on retainer lawyers like hourly rates and take a long time to do anything and for the most part guarantee *nothing*. They are not real professionals IMO. ie have no liability. 

But anyway, its quite clear that generally you can't be permissive then hold back on a detail. At least in most countries. To take that to court is lots or badness. Mostly because you don't have good odds of winning. But the final decision is made by a judge. So what is allowed and not allowed can *only* be worked out in court.

Patents are a different matter at least for software. For the most part if you are not in the US you really shouldn't care. Lawyers here (EU) have said be careful. But its generally accepted that no court will take the case. At this stage anyway (well about 2 years ago.. yes it was real lawyer advice).

It should also be pointed out that Stallman interpretation of derived work is also unlikely to stand up in court. This has been reiterated many times by many lawyers. However most stick to it for PR reasons.

These lawyers are not your lawyers so you know, whatever. But as small time devs you really don't need to worry. By the time you make enough for anyone to care, you will be pretty rich. Also most courts of the world require that they inform you first and give you a chance to remedy the situation for anything copyright related before proceeding with litigation. Even Patents require pre litigation negations that are fair and reasonable (ie no extortion). 

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Roquen]

Unless Roquen is talking about adding in his own GPL incompatible code to the OpenJDK build itself (as opposed to included stuff by assembly exception or additional libraries covered by classpath exception)?

No, I'm talking about the source you'd get from a pull.  And again, I'm probably just being paranoid.  Really I don't think it would be unreasonable to spend the time writing a shell script to inspect all files and spew out filenames of any that don't contain the GPL header and manually inspecting them...as well as a manual review all plain text files before thinking about walking down this path.

OpenJDK is released under an well-known open-source licensing model, that places no restrictions on your ability to run OpenJDK.

Notice the operative word: ...on your ability to run...  I've never claimed that it was possible that it would be illegal for you to "run" the executable you generate.  Distribution is my concern.

[nsigma]

No, I'm talking about the source you'd get from a pull. 

Then covered by the assembly exception.

Notice the operative word: ...on your ability to run...  I've never claimed that it was possible that it would be illegal for you to "run" the executable you generate.  Distribution is my concern.

No, but that's what (I read) the page Julien linked to appears to be claiming, specifically around patents.  The GPL covers distribution and use.

[princec]

I'm pretty certain the GPL specifically allows you to distribute and use binaries absolutely gratis. I think that was one of the fundamental reasons for its existence.

Anyway, I've hacked on OpenJDK, and even been congratulated on my efforts by Oracle, so bleh.

Cas

[Cero]

Just some numbers..
The PS3 devkit originally cost $10,250. The price was then cut to $2000 in may 2009 so that more developers would come along.
for most poor indie developers it would have to be much lower than that, but we will see... I was just interested in how much money we are talking about. I figured something like $5000 and up, so $2000 isnt all THAT BAD in comparison... well not that I have $2000 to spend on a devkit.

On a related note, the Ouya devkit was like $800, which is freaking crazy. Also considering: Why do you even need it ? Ouya is Android, why do I need such a devkit just for Ouya and then at that price... just give me the Ouya API lib or whatever and there you go

[Andre Lopes]

I can see this topic is very populated. I think we should foward it to Oracle to show that we care.

I dont think will help, but,. they should know about us.

[Cero]

we rather thought that the best way is to go for openjdk here

[princec]

Oracle are fully aware of the contents of this thread.

Cas

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[gouessej]

Oracle are fully aware of the contents of this thread.

Cas

Really? Does Oracle know that several organizations would like to publish fully functional builds of OpenJDK with Java Web Start support this time (by porting NetX/IcedTea-web to Windows and Mac) especially since it started bundling Java with the crappy Ask malware?

[princec]

What's that got to do with the price of fish...?

So far as I know Oracle are aware of most of the things going on. Hats off to OpenJDK builders but there's more to it than meets the eye.

Cas

[Connor]

Wow, that'd be awesome.

[deepthought]

You didn't hear this from me and you don't know. It's Linux, with OpenGL4.3. <edit>OpenAL is available.

Cas

If it's linux, what would Sony have to release to satisfy the GPL?

[princec]

Who knows. Remember not all of Linux is GNU or GPL so it depends how much of Linux they've used. All will be revealed I'm sure.

Cas

[Cero]

Developing for the PS Vita & PS Mobile is now completely free: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/sony-waives-99-mobile-development-fee-in-play-for-indies/

Things are looking good.

[deepthought]

does anyone else get the feeling this is just a lead-up to a big giant letdown and sony's just going to show a nettop with "PS4 " spraypainted on it ?

[Cero]

btw PS Mobile is android... does libgdx stuff work there ?

[badlogicgames]

citation needed...

[deepthought]

"PlayStation®Mobile." PlayStation®Mobile. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 May 2013.

[erikd]

btw PS Mobile is android... does libgdx stuff work there ?

PS Mobile isn't exclusive to Android and is based on Mono/C# as far as I know. So libgdx probably doesn't work.