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  New feature: crackdown on senseless posts  (Read 14766 times)
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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Posted 2012-12-16 16:07:49 »

The past few weeks average post quality has dropped significantly, after some new members joined, dragging other members into their annoying habbits. In order to break this horrible trend, posts that are grossly offtopic in serious threads and post that are offensive to the intelligence will be moved into the 'Facepalm thread', which has been locked to prevent even more meaningless chattery. This is a forum people, not a chatbox. Everything you post here is meant to be viewed by more than two or three people. Keep that in mind when you create a 'lolololol' post, because it will be moderated.

I'm only going to interfere with the extremes. The vast majority shouldn't even bother with this new 'rule'. Meaningless remarks are allowed, just as usual, until the majority of your posts are meaningless.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline PeterNicholson

Senior Member


Medals: 3
Projects: 1



« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-12-16 16:10:29 »

Sorry for that post Riven  Smiley

Subscribe to me on YouTube: http://youtube.com/javaprogrammerguy
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-12-16 17:00:09 »

I think it's because of me  persecutioncomplex

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Sickan

Senior Member


Medals: 9



« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-12-16 17:02:46 »

'until the majority of your posts are meaningless', damn, I have to make more meaningful posts. Anyway, it's a shame that this has to be done. If the new members hadn't lowered the bar, we would still be enjoying the high-quality deluxe posts that inhabit the majority of this forum.
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 147
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-12-17 00:55:39 »

Meaningless remarks are allowed, just as usual
Whew!

until the majority of your posts are meaningless.
Doh!

Offline kaffiene
« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-12-17 01:38:00 »

Your vigilance is appreciated, Riven
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-12-17 07:00:06 »

That's a great idea, thanks Riven.
By the way, the problem with new members is that they try to get their post-count up to become more 'senior', so they spam senseless comments.
Maybe the seniority given under a person's could be a count of medals only, or by the number of games in the games showcase, or time since the member first joined?
Or seniority could be an average of those things and post-count, plus or minus a random number just to confuse the noobs a bit so they give up trying to game the system. Or seniority could be ditched.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 380
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-12-17 09:37:41 »

I concur; medal count is much more interesting than post count. Just remove the post count from general display and show only ranking based on medals perhaps.

Cas Smiley

Offline Regenuluz
« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-12-17 11:14:43 »

Looks like that has been done now. At least it says how many games each person have and their number of medals, instead of number of posts. Smiley
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-12-17 11:25:49 »

I like the games count, motivating!

For level, I suggest this variables: registered time, medals, games (WIP dan Featured have different values), and post counts (on small portion).

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 380
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-12-17 11:33:42 »

Hm, looks like my games count is based simply on posts put in Showcase - it would appear a bunch of those posts need moving.

Cas Smiley

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-12-17 11:34:25 »

Game count based on: showcase, featured, wip and all Java4K boards (which needs some adjustment).

Star count is based on black magic, with a maximum of 9.

Rank is solely based on star count: Junior Newbie, Senior Newbie, Junior Member, Senior Member, JGO Apprentice, JGO Knight, JGO Ninja, JGO Wizard, JGO Kernel.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 4
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-12-17 13:15:09 »

Game count based on: showcase, featured, wip and all Java4K boards (which needs some adjustment).

Star count is based on black magic, with a maximum of 9.

Rank is solely based on star-count: Junior Newbie, Senior Newbie, Junior Member, Senior Member, JGO Apprentice, JGO Knight, JGO Ninja, JGO Wizard, JGO Kernel.

This feature is one of the best I've seen in a game dev forum. Not because of the ranking system per se, but the sorting of games of a member, and the link to the Member's game showcase.

Maybe if you're feeling really productive you should add a "Not a Game" button in a member's Showcase, in which the member can remove the game from his showcase. (Maybe a point(?) given to the person who clicked "Not a Game" to reward his honesty).

Edit:
Oh and it would also be nice if this info was shown in Member's summary page.

Anyway, kudos for the great idea!

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-12-17 13:23:28 »

Thanks for the kind words! (but credits to CommanderKeith for the idea!)

Although 'not a game'-functionality is perfectly reasonable, it's a bit of a hassle, in the database. I'm already running 'cronjobs' (which I added to SMF), to keep all statistics up to date, and the more fancy functionality I add, the more caching and/or denormalizing I end up with. Not to mention that it'd take a few hours to implement. I've got other stuff to do too, like writing fancy code for/with Cas.

So let's say, I wrote it down on this mystic to-do list, safely stored in a vault.


Edit:
Oh and it would also be nice if this info was shown in Member's summary page.
Done! Added Medals & Games in the listing. The links to the detailed pages, were already at the bottom.

Update:
Added some heuristics, to see whether a topic is really a game topic. persecutioncomplex

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Pickleninja

JGO Coder


Medals: 10
Projects: 1


I'm tired of working for someone else.


« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-12-17 17:29:03 »

I am only 1/3 of Riven  in terms of black magicness ... Cry


-Pickle

Offline PeterNicholson

Senior Member


Medals: 3
Projects: 1



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-12-17 17:36:32 »

Very good idea Riven! Now, maybe people will make more games...  Grin

Subscribe to me on YouTube: http://youtube.com/javaprogrammerguy
Offline Cero
« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-12-17 22:36:46 »

Showing how many games a person posted will only result in people posting unfinished crap, if that.

I dont get why there are medals anyway - does anyone care?
"Rank" - does anyone care ?
ridiculous social stats with number rating - srsly ?

Do you really think all that is going to improve forum posts in some way ? "I'm going to improve quality of my posts so get medals..." why would they be desirable ?

Maybe I'm the wrong guy since I have never cared for Achievements or Trophies or whatever either - but this isn't really a game

The only thing that makes marginally sense, is showing how many posts a person has, because newbies who dont know the people yet can than tell (not with certainty but at least probability), that this guy has been here long / might know a thing or two
other than that I only care for the name and the avatar ._.

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 132
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-12-17 22:41:03 »

so are ranks based on games now? or games and medals? or games and medals and posts? Apparently I'm an apprentice but since this ranking system is very recent I don't exactly know how high/low that is.

need to learn how to read xD
and @cero I pretty much agree, I think it should be a combination. I mean if you look at the stuff in WIP some of it is nothing but concept art.
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-12-17 22:49:05 »

Wow that was lightning quick implementation, thanks Riven. This is cool.

Cero: I agree that rank is a bit silly, but it motivates new members, and I am now motivated to crank out some games. I'm feeling quite inadequate with my zero games status!

Riven's black magic for calculating star count is a great idea. Keeping the formula secret is the way to go so that newbs can't game the system

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 132
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-12-17 22:54:53 »

Oh, and the members page still displays our old ranks.
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-12-17 23:09:53 »

It's not just a score: click on it and it actually shows you that person's games.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-12-17 23:25:24 »

Showing how many games a person posted will only result in people posting unfinished crap, if that.
Like how low post-count only results in people posting nonsense? The WIP is for unfinished crap to begin with. It's not a good strategy to enforce some minimum level of quality. That would demotivate people to make progress.



I dont get why there are medals anyway - does anyone care?
"Rank" - does anyone care ?

Do you really think all that is going to improve forum posts in some way ? "I'm going to improve quality of my posts so get medals..." why would they be desirable ?

Maybe I'm the wrong guy since I have never cared for Achievements or Trophies or whatever either - but this isn't really a game
You don't get 'medals' ? Positive reinforcement is an incredibly powerful motivator. People will be more helpful if there is the potential of a publicly recognized award for it. What would Facebook be without their Like and Twitter to without Follow. It's all positive reinforcement, that's why Facebook doesn't have, for example, Dislike.



"Rank" - does anyone care ?
I don't get what the problem is with the current 'ranking'. It has always been there... as part of SMF, and just now that there are new names, and a new way to calcluate ranking, the entire concept is flawed? And if you don't care, why bother complaining? It's not like it is getting in your way.


The only thing that makes marginally sense, is showing how many posts a person has, because newbies who dont know the people yet can than tell (not with certainty but at least probability), that this guy has been here long / might know a thing or two
As for the argument that post-count is significant for newbies to evaluate somebodies status... isn't that what the (previous and current) ranking is for? The typical forum links rank to post-count, while that is highly inaccurate. The new JGO system provides a much more in-depth indication of skill / status.



so are ranks based on games now? or games and medals? or games and medals and posts? Apparently I'm an apprentice but since this ranking system is very recent I don't exactly know how high/low that is.

need to learn how to read xD
and @cero I pretty much agree, I think it should be a combination. I mean if you look at the stuff in WIP some of it is nothing but concept art.
The fact that the ranking calculation is secret, doesn't mean it's simple. You seem to assume it's unbalanced. Can you elaborate?



As people seem to assume the worst of my abilities when I say 'the formula' is a secret, let me say this: people trying to game the ranking system will find it damn hard, if not impossible. Math doesn't lie. To crank up your score with game-topics alone will take over 100 topics, thousands of posts or hundreds of medals. It's all about balance: a regular visitor that contributes to the forum and releases a handful of games will quickly rise in ranking. Whether you care about that, is up to you, but the majority just does.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Sammidysam
« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-12-17 23:37:34 »

I really like the ability to click and see all the games that someone has made.  Good work Cheesy
Offline Cero
« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-12-17 23:43:15 »

You don't get 'medals' ? Positive reinforcement is an incredibly powerful motivator. People will be more helpful if there is the potential of a publicly recognized award for it. What would Facebook be without their Like and Twitter to without Follow. It's all positive reinforcement, that's why Facebook doesn't have, for example, Dislike.
Facebook's Like is to openly support something... yeah I guess its like the medals, but Facebook is a giant network.
And Twitter's Follow is different, at leats to me, its just to subscribe so that I read what these people are posting - just like RSS subscribtions
Yes it shows how many followers someone has, but does it matter ? Its just statistics...
Liking something or here, giving a medal is only interesting in this aspect "oh person X agrees on that/ likes it" same in Facebook. However how many Likes someone has in total / medals is a worthless statistic - its not even in context. But maybe thats just me... However Facebook does not have "X posts of this user have been liked" it only has a Likes counter on products and groups and such

I don't get what the problem is with the current 'ranking'. It has always been there... as part of SMF, and just now that there are new names, and a new way to calcluate ranking, the entire concept is flawed? And if you don't care, why bother complaining? It's not like it is getting in your way.
Well you are changing it - I guess it was "if its broken dont fix it" however I would argue that nobody cared to begin with.

The new JGO system provides a much more in-depth indication of skill / status.
The whole notion of rating users and their posting is just wrong to me - or worthless. One of the other.

Imagine someone pointing out a statistic on how long I need in the bathroom or while parking - as if I have to care

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #24 - Posted 2012-12-17 23:49:31 »

You already made it clear you don't like it. Why argue about feature A that you didn't care about, that turned into feature B that you don't care about? So far you're the only one being negative. One can't please everybody.

And if you don't care, why bother complaining? It's not like it is getting in your way.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline theagentd
« Reply #25 - Posted 2012-12-18 00:14:05 »

Well you are changing it - I guess it was "if its broken dont fix it" however I would argue that nobody cared to begin with.
I care, thereby disproving that statement.

EDIT:
Having a games count is pretty weird. My volumetric lighting test program isn't a game. Changing it to something more general probably won't work since that will indeed encourage people to create lots of stuff in the showcase forum, which in turn will cause it to get even less attention than it currently is. I'd therefore say that having nothing is better than this. I think medals and stars are enough. persecutioncomplex

Myomyomyo.
Offline ctomni231

JGO Wizard


Medals: 99
Projects: 1
Exp: 7 years


Not a glitch. Just have a lil' pixelexia...


« Reply #26 - Posted 2012-12-18 00:30:13 »

The crazy part is, this is the first forum I've ever seen take a step in where they are basing the ranking on the "point" of the forum. The point of this forum is to make games and create meaningful posts. Of course, if you've been here for a while, things like that will not matter too much. But when it comes to new people looking for help, I think that looking at the members to see how helpful they've been is a really great indicator.

The post count is just standardized fluff in most cases. All it really shows is that you have more time to post on a forum than anyone else. There is no way that it tells you the quality of posts, or how well you are able to help others. This system might not be perfect, but it is a step in the right direction and will probably stop all those nonsensical one-liners in their tracks.

Totally supported. Keep it up, Riven.

Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 132
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #27 - Posted 2012-12-18 00:40:07 »

I propose we create an algorithm to evalute the relevance and aptness of any post to the topic and to this forum, and then to use that evaluation to add to a total point score per user. Each game will be evaluated similarly for completeness and skill.


...nah, too hard. This system is probably the best way that doesn't require a full scale project.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #28 - Posted 2012-12-18 00:51:00 »

Having a games count is pretty weird. My volumetric lighting test program isn't a game. Changing it to something more general [...]. I'd therefore say that having nothing is better than this.
'Game count', 'Project count', it's all the same. I can easily switch it to 'Projects', if that feels better. (Edit: Done!)



probably won't work since that will indeed encourage people to create lots of stuff in the showcase forum
Sub-par entries in the Showcase board are kicked back to WIP all the time. Similairly, sub-par entries in the WIP board are kicked to Misc. We don't need a perfect, autonomous solution - as we can interfere with data directly. (moderation).

The goal is to create an incentive to help others & publish games, which is the whole point of JGO, as ctomni231 correctly pointed out. Members not interested in publishing games (or projects, if you will) will still be valued by their contributions: helping others, or simply by being nice.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline SimonH
« Reply #29 - Posted 2012-12-18 01:05:54 »

I dunno... A few years ago I was doing animation and I frequented a forum which had the most annoying ever kid on it: "wow thts gr8!", "Loooool!", " Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley!" &c. He didn't get banned because the moderation was very light, and eventually he turned out to be really good and got a job with Aardman Animation - one of the top jobs!
Maybe we could have a 'yawn' button as well as an 'appeciate' button? Any poster with a '0 medals, 999 yawns' tag won't get taken very seriously...

People make games and games make people
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