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  Hey There, I'm New Need A Couple Answers  (Read 2459 times)
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Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2012-12-11 05:44:36 »

Hey Everybody

I'm looking to make a Tower Defense game in Java, but I have almost no experience in programming with Graphics.
Needless to say this provides a large issue, I'm hoping I can find somebody or maybe a couple of people who are interested in pursuing this project with me, and can teach me how to program Graphics. I really don't know where I should be looking online to join a group for collaborative projects and such, so if people want to point me to a more appropriate location that is fine too. I've got some pretty cool ideas, well at least I think I do, just would love some help with the implemtation,

Thanks for reading.
Online Jimmt
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-12-11 05:47:43 »

In my opinion, if you have no experience in graphics, you shouldn't really be making graphical games. Learn graphics and build your way up through console/text games first, build some graphical games by yourself, and then recruit.
Offline GabrielBailey74
« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-12-11 05:49:04 »

The way I set up Graphics for rendering in Java2D is:
Create a JFrame.
Create a JPanel, than add it to the JFrame.

The way you'll be rendering is by overriding the JPanels paint(Graphics g) method.
From there you'd be able to do all you need to:
Render Images, animation, lines, rects, letters, etc..

Hope this helps some.

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Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:01:00 »

I get all that to be honest, add a JPanel to a JFrame and then override Graphics extending the JPanel on a new class. with paintComponent(Graphics g). The issue I get to is really not being well versed in anything after that, I can drawString and drawImage and such like that, that's child's play just need to know how what values to place in. Its the handling of Graphics that I'm completely inexperienced in. How I should go about making monsters move on a Tower Defence map, the best way to build the map stuff like that. Sorry if you get a little bit of anger coming through this, Jimmt could have given the stupidest and most useless comment I've ever read. I'm inexperienced in programming graphics Jimmt, not incompetent.

Any suggestions on how I should be handling my graphics. My biggest concern is that I am neither artistic or capable in photoshop, so I just don't see me being able to create my own images and stuff. I should be able to learn how to program the graphics with a little bit of guidance.
Online Jimmt
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« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:06:19 »

Sorry if you get a little bit of anger coming through this, Jimmt could have given the stupidest and most useless comment I've ever read. I'm inexperienced in programming graphics Jimmt, not incompetent.
I never saw you state your exact skill with graphics in the original post, so how was I supposed to assume you were just inexperienced? All you said was that you needed someone to teach you graphics.
I stand by my point though. Sometimes it's better to learn first.

Anyways most of my answer comes from here (http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/how-do-i-start-java-game-development/27156/msg/253894/view.html) so you might as well call ra4king, davedes, and ReBirth stupid too.

Looks like you need some general programming learning as well, as making monsters move isn't really graphics (making them appear to move is graphics, actually increasing/decreasing the x/y is not)

Offline GabrielBailey74
« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:06:51 »

I get all that to be honest, add a JPanel to a JFrame and then override Graphics extending the JPanel on a new class. with paintComponent(Graphics g). The issue I get to is really not being well versed in anything after that, I can drawString and drawImage and such like that, that's child's play just need to know how what values to place in. Its the handling of Graphics that I'm completely inexperienced in. How I should go about making monsters move on a Tower Defence map, the best way to build the map stuff like that. Sorry if you get a little bit of anger coming through this, Jimmt could have given the stupidest and most useless comment I've ever read. I'm inexperienced in programming graphics Jimmt, not incompetent.

Any suggestions on how I should be handling my graphics. My biggest concern is that I am neither artistic or capable in photoshop, so I just don't see me being able to create my own images and stuff. I should be able to learn how to program the graphics with a little bit of guidance.

How I should go about making monsters move on a Tower Defense map:
To make a 'Monster' move, simply program it, lol.
Don't know how to explain that one, it's a Sprite, has a x,y value, width/height, all changeable.
Create a Monster class, which contains variables like absX, absY, velX, velY, width, height, etc.
Inside of that Monster class add a 'move' method, which is called upon as frequent as you wish.

the best way to build the map stuff like that:
Maps, simply draw one in paint/Photoshop, which ever you prefer, than load it and draw it...

Any suggestions on how I should be handling my graphics:
Handling your graphics?, i don't quite understand, you obtain the Graphics object and than produce 'child's play', as you would say.

In reply to:
Quote
My biggest concern is that I am neither artistic or capable in Photoshop, so I just don't see me being able to create my own images and stuff
If you're not capable of producing your own sprites, go find some, if you can't find some, do the game work until you can with substitutes for the sprites.

To me, Java2D isn't really considered 'Graphics Programming', it has shapes, the ability to render pre-saved Images etc.
Pretty simple Yawn

Offline HeroesGraveDev

JGO Kernel


Medals: 212
Projects: 11
Exp: 2 years


If it wasn't Awesome, it wasn't me.


« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:20:05 »

I am assuming you are talking about programming a graphical game, and not programming the graphics of a graphical game.

Try the Coke & Code tutorials. All of them if neccessary.
If you have no idea on how to program a graphical game, then there is no point attempting a tower defence. So if a tutorial doesn't give you a tower defence game, too bad. It's the concepts that matter. It's up to you to use those concepts to make a game.

Good Luck!

Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:26:59 »

Jimmt:

Yeah, I was a little vague I suppose, although I did say I have almost no experience programming Graphics, not in programming... whatever, I'm not looking to start fights, just in an abnormally frustrated mood I suppose... But yeah telling someone to go program console-based text games I suppose that just rubbed me the wrong way considering that was a completely useless suggestion. Just sounded like you were belittling me, oh well whatever sorry for being a jerk, not always like that, just when I think i'm being insulted.

Gabriel:

Seem to have rubbed you the wrong way as well, well I'm sorry, when I used the Child's Play I meant in regards to filling in values for a draw method, um any idiot can look that up in API, I don't consider that Graphics programming and would have thought that would have been insulting to people that can actually do it if I said, look I can draw a string or something I can program graphics... because that isn't true at all. When I mentioned building maps, I was talking more about perhaps a 10x10 grid of JPanels and different terrain types and how best to set these types, and after that I suppose I could use a conditional statement based on what type I set, sorry I should have been more specific in that regard. When I said handling graphics I meant just that, how best to call your proposed move class which sounds like a good idea, how to handle multiple monsters whether that would be in the loop, you know there are some things there where a little guidance makes that a lot less convoluted.

Sorry If I rubbed you the wrong way, I guess I jumped the gun a little on you Jimmt, but I tend to read messages with a certain lens, such is the effect of spending too much of one's life on the internet I suppose.
Offline masteryoom

JGO Coder


Medals: 5
Projects: 3


If you look closely, you might see it turning...


« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:31:21 »

What is wrong with console games? Cranky

Smiley
Offline GabrielBailey74
« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:32:56 »

You too Ignasis? Sad
My moods been wrecked ever since I opened up my IDE this morning and rendered a few 2D Rectangles and LWJGL couldn't even achieve a FPS count greater than 3.......
When Java2D can achieve a 60+ fps count with x100 that :L

Anyways, don't think I'd be of much more use in this thread Stare, I'm open for pms if you need help mate Smiley

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Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:33:13 »

Nothing at all, but when you are wanting to learn how to program graphically, what does programming a console game accomplish? I have made 10-20 console games. I didn't ask for help programming a game, it was graphics... So it's just not really relevant in my opinion. But heck what do I know, I'm asking for help, I'm not claiming to know this stuff.
Offline GabrielBailey74
« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:33:54 »

Nothing at all, but when you are wanting to learn how to program graphically, what does programming a console game accomplish? I have made 10-20 console games. I didn't ask for help programming a game, it was graphics... So it's just not really relevant in my opinion. But heck what do I know, I'm asking for help, I'm not claiming to know this stuff.

I've never made 1 console game in my life LOL!.
Yet I have around 7 years in Java Kiss

Offline masteryoom

JGO Coder


Medals: 5
Projects: 3


If you look closely, you might see it turning...


« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:36:10 »

Does anyone read that wiki article about starting with console games??  persecutioncomplex

Smiley
Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:44:47 »

Lol, evidently not. I've been teaching myself GUis for the last 4-5 weeks, got to the point where its like... Gotta start with graphical games, idk I'm just unsure of how to program the graphical side of it, oh well gotta start learning somewhere, just trying to figure out where that should be
Online Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 606
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:44:56 »

@all: Don't get too worked up about statements of strangers.

@Ignasis: I don't think it's feasible to think you can join a team, that will teach you everything. Teams generally look for people that can contribute, not people they have to invest a lot of time in, to make them do what they can already do themselves.

What you want to do, is start small. Try to write a Pong game. Maybe this suggestion insults you, but it's serious. You'll learn about game logic, rendering logic, and the project is small enough to start from scratch many times over, in case you screwed up. Once you get Pong to work, try Snake, then try Asteroids, etc etc.

Start small, get it to work, finish it, make something bigger. Rinse and repeat ('til you rake in the millions).

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Online Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 118
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:45:14 »

Jimmt:

Yeah, I was a little vague I suppose, although I did say I have almost no experience programming Graphics, not in programming... whatever, I'm not looking to start fights, just in an abnormally frustrated mood I suppose... But yeah telling someone to go program console-based text games I suppose that just rubbed me the wrong way considering that was a completely useless suggestion. Just sounded like you were belittling me, oh well whatever sorry for being a jerk, not always like that, just when I think i'm being insulted.
Yeah I get what you mean, it's all good. 10-20 console games is more than enough, can't blame you if you get bored.
Back to the main topic, I think you need to refine your question a bit. Clearly you are making a game with graphics, but graphics in general refer to rendering images and drawing rectangles etc. However by the nature of your questions they sound more like logic & design so I can only infer that you want to know how to link/connect your graphics/paintcomponent method with the rest of your code/program, is that right?


 
Does anyone read that wiki article about starting with console games??  persecutioncomplex

Don't need to follow it like the bible xD
Anyways, the wiki wasn't here when I started game programming.
Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:49:28 »

Yeah thats a good way of looking at it I'd say, but there are some things about Graphics I'm concerned about such as rotating the sprites and stuff, but the biggest issue for now would be integrating those graphics, the more complicated stuff I could get to as it comes together... Definitely needed this, it's making me think in the right ways.
Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-12-11 06:51:34 »

@all: Don't get too worked up about statements of strangers.

@Ignasis: I don't think it's feasible to think you can join a team, that will teach you everything. Teams generally look for people that can contribute, not people they have to invest a lot of time in, to make them do what they can already do themselves.

What you want to do, is start small. Try to write a Pong game. Maybe this suggestion insults you, but it's serious. You'll learn about game logic, rendering logic, and the project is small enough to start from scratch many times over, in case you screwed up. Once you get Pong to work, try Snake, then try Asteroids, etc etc.

Start small, get it to work, finish it, make something bigger. Rinse and repeat ('til you rake in the millions).

Sound advice, sorry wasn't in the best mood earlier, just needed a couple of people to show me I was being a jerk... didn't really notice at first, sadly. That might be the best course of action, i'll take that advice seriously and work on a simpler project tonight and see what I can come up with. Time to program til 3 AM. /me loves Java.
Offline HeroesGraveDev

JGO Kernel


Medals: 212
Projects: 11
Exp: 2 years


If it wasn't Awesome, it wasn't me.


« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-12-11 07:18:10 »

Does anyone read that wiki article about starting with console games??  persecutioncomplex

Er...   persecutioncomplex

My first console 'game' (third or fourth game overall) was a chat server. Cool
The rest of my n00b games were all platformers.
Console games are boring to play/program (with the occasional exception of play. There are a few good ones)
I (speaking for me, not anyone else) need to see a result after a while or I get bored.

So, if you think console games are BORING to program and mostly BORING to play, make a graphical game if you can.

Offline ctomni231

JGO Ninja


Medals: 71
Projects: 1
Exp: 7 years


Not a glitch. Just have a lil' pixelexia...


« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-12-11 07:18:27 »

Well, you are building a tower defense game correct. You don't necessarily need really good graphics to create a tower defense game. I don't really know the library you are using, but sometimes it is just better to get a good framework started using simple circles and rectangles.

The most important thing about the game is the game play. If something simple is written down first, it makes it easier for people to draw graphics for the game. Or, just follow Riven's suggestion and try making Pong. Making a game is a process, and graphics can wait until you find the right artist.


Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-12-11 07:35:13 »

Well, you are building a tower defense game correct. You don't necessarily need really good graphics to create a tower defense game. I don't really know the library you are using, but sometimes it is just better to get a good framework started using simple circles and rectangles.

The most important thing about the game is the game play. If something simple is written down first, it makes it easier for people to draw graphics for the game. Or, just follow Riven's suggestion and try making Pong. Making a game is a process, and graphics can wait until you find the right artist.


Thx, I agree with a lot of what you said, I did make a couple images such as a Triangle and stuff for the monsters, was just getting frustrated trying to process all the graphical code mentally beforehand and planning it out, so I was trying to seek help, currently I'm making the pong, ran into a little speedbump that I'm trying to figure out. It's weird.
Online Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 606
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-12-11 07:37:33 »

It's weird.
Welcome to the club! Smiley

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-12-11 07:44:19 »


lol literally just posted code to have you guys help me out, then noticed mistake.... oh fails... Love how that always happens. and Thank You.
Offline PeterNicholson

Senior Member


Medals: 3
Projects: 1



« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-12-11 10:30:13 »

If you want to make a tower defence game, you shoud use slick2d. It is easy to learn, and has some very powerfull features.

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Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #24 - Posted 2012-12-11 11:14:12 »

If you want to make a tower defence game, you shoud use slick2d. It is easy to learn, and has some very powerfull features.

I'll look into it tomorrow, bout to turn in, that being said... got a couple of exams soon so may not be able to...
I'll find time and have a look, thanks for the tip.
Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 55
Projects: 9
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #25 - Posted 2012-12-11 11:20:06 »

One good advice may be to try making a simple Java4K game. It's a yearly contest in which people try to make a cool game in an applet of just 4 kilobyte. For me this was a good way to start simple. You can't even do fancy graphics with that size limitation (some superhuman programmers aside), anyways. It may be a good way for you to find out what you like in making games, and where your talents lie.

Java4K website: http://www.java4k.com/index.php?action=home
There's also a Java4K forum on JGO: http://www.java-gaming.org/boards/4k-game-competition-2013/79/view.html

Some of the games have public source code, which may offer some inspiration to get started (don't expect overall best practices in game programming though, just a nice playground).

Offline Ignasis

Senior Newbie





« Reply #26 - Posted 2012-12-11 20:25:10 »

I had a look at those 4K games before I went to bed last night Grunnt, they look rather interesting. Just don't know if that is what I'm looking to make at this moment. Certainly a challenge for the future though, I'll keep that in mind.
Offline sproingie
« Reply #27 - Posted 2012-12-11 21:14:23 »

Almost all the Ludum Dare challenge games have source code available, and those might be a little more instructive than the extreme code bumming that often goes on to make a 4k game. 

http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/
Offline RobinB

JGO Knight


Medals: 37
Projects: 1
Exp: 3 years


Spacegame in progress


« Reply #28 - Posted 2012-12-11 21:31:32 »

People keep creating topics with this shit.
First they expect to get evrything baby-fed.
When it gets to hard, intrest is lost and they just leave.
Having problems with something is oke, but dont jump into something completely unknown and expect others to baby feed you.
Offline cheatsguy

Junior Member


Medals: 3


Gamer turned Pixel Artist turned Programmer


« Reply #29 - Posted 2012-12-11 21:41:56 »

There are some people who have invested in a project and just have one problem that they ask a question to (in the case of this post, they weren't sure how to start a graphical game). I would advise (as I have done before) to search the forums for a similar question or google-search it, then come and post if you still have questions/issues, or if it doesn't apply to your specific situation. A lot can be learned by googling your problem   Smiley

Off Topic: Sproingie had exactly 10 times as many posts as RobinB at the time of this post XD

Busy between school, work, life, games, programming and general screwing around.
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