Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (79)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (477)
Games in Android Showcase (108)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (536)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
  Titan Attacks by Puppy Games is C#?  (Read 6045 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline PaulCunningham

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Posted 2012-12-01 20:16:14 »

It is now  Cool

Because I've just spent the best part of the past month converting all of Caspian's libraries to C# - these are the desktop versions (I did some Android work earlier on in the year so I could build on the knowledge gained there).

Some Java classes and bits of LWJGL made the jump too.

I've blogged a bit about the process here if anyone is interested...
http://pumpkin-games.net/wp/?p=110

...and here...
http://pumpkin-games.net/wp/?p=139

It's currently in testing. I'm aiming for something like the initial title screen late Sunday (although the pre-widescreen version has been converted and is playable). Game saves, 'Steam' stuff and sound still to finish.

So, if you like Puppy Games and have an Xbox, PS Vita or an iOS device keep an eye out for some news probably early next year.

Paul.
Offline Cero
« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-12-02 00:31:53 »

I dont like C#, but I do like other platforms I cannot target with Libgdx

so tell me, how do you write a C# game and port it to Xbox or PS Vita ?   I would think that their stuff(SDKs) is all C++

Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-12-02 00:49:56 »

I dont like C#, but I do like other platforms I cannot target with Libgdx

so tell me, how do you write a C# game and port it to Xbox or PS Vita ?   I would think that their stuff(SDKs) is all C++

Xbox -> XNA.
Vita -> Playstation Mobile (previously known as Playstation Suite)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Mobile

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline PaulCunningham

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-12-02 01:01:45 »

What is it about C# that you don't like? It's pretty much Java by another name really.

I'm going to use MonoGame to target the other platforms. It's a cross platform conversion of the XNA framework (obviously using Mono).
Offline Cero
« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-12-02 01:55:59 »

What is it about C# that you don't like? It's pretty much Java by another name really.
Well I dont like microsoft standards in general :<
(and yeah, a stolen java with another name by microsoft - its all wrong D:)

I'm going to use MonoGame to target the other platforms. It's a cross platform conversion of the XNA framework (obviously using Mono).
I assume one has to know a great deal to port a opengl to XNA/direct X
but if its done, and reliably so in MonoGame...


curious that when I asked at the libgdx forums if they were ever going to port to XNA it was a sound no

Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-12-02 04:10:09 »

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again?  Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode.  Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

Offline Cero
« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-12-02 04:25:55 »

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again?  Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode.  Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

C# is a microsoft language intended to write programs which only run on microsoft system.
third party developers have made it possible by then use it in ways it wasn't intended, like Mono, which is great for us.
Nevertheless the fact that microsoft has to develop their own standards all the time is quite annoying to me, they will copy whatever they see, and I will not support even one thing. (Everything the made is a blatant copy of already existing stuff, only with the microsoft seal of quality, which is faster release for more money, regardless of stability or completion, see, among others, VISTA, BSODs, RROD etc)
Even though they do not get real "support" by me using C#, but its idealism. I will try to use options other than microsoft whenever I can, and I will certainly try to avoid giving them money.

I simply stated "I dont like C#", thats it. I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 749
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-12-02 04:31:51 »

I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.

Wanna be friends? I easily connect deeply with people who say they knew all along, after it happened.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline PaulCunningham

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-12-02 11:46:09 »

Ah man, I was hoping this wouldn't descend into a silly argument about which language was better. They both have their good and bad points.

Puppy games are fun and I want to see them on more platforms. I want to play Titan Attacks in my living room on a huge TV on my Xbox or on my phone when I'm on the train to work - now I can  Grin
Offline Cero
« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-12-02 13:46:49 »

Ah man, I was hoping this wouldn't descend into a silly argument about which language was better.
Yeah it's like a religious debate... never ends well.

I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.
Wanna be friends? I easily connect deeply with people who say they knew all along, after it happened.
My point is: lets not fight about that kinda stuff here.

Porting a game to another platform with C# is "the greater good" and its certainly easier than with C++
So im all for it

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-12-02 14:20:39 »

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again?  Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode.  Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

C# is a microsoft language intended to write programs which only run on microsoft system.
third party developers have made it possible by then use it in ways it wasn't intended, like Mono, which is great for us.
Nevertheless the fact that microsoft has to develop their own standards all the time is quite annoying to me, they will copy whatever they see, and I will not support even one thing. (Everything the made is a blatant copy of already existing stuff, only with the microsoft seal of quality, which is faster release for more money, regardless of stability or completion, see, among others, VISTA, BSODs, RROD etc)
Even though they do not get real "support" by me using C#, but its idealism. I will try to use options other than microsoft whenever I can, and I will certainly try to avoid giving them money.

I simply stated "I dont like C#", thats it. I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.
So you must use Linux? No wait that's direct ripoff of Unix. Mac then? No they first copy everyone else then sue people who copy them. I guess you must use a home grown OS, else that would make you a hypocrite. The world has always worked by people seeing something and saying I can make that better. So whining about who stole what from whom is totally counter productive and wasteful. That's why billions of dollars are wasted in patent and copyright cases instead of people just trying to do some work.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-12-02 23:20:35 »

It's all a bit fiddly but Paul's been making great progress converting our framework into C#. Crappy performance problems on the 360 are a bit of a hindrance (hopeless VM - they really missed a trick there).

Plan is to get our games on 360 and Playstation, but Titan Attacks is already being ported into Monkey by another friend of ours to get it on to iOS.

Still utterly shameful that we even have to do any of this but there we have the final results of 10 years of mismanagement of the Java client.

Cas Smiley

Offline Rorkien
« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-12-03 01:32:25 »

Good job on Revenge of Titans and the conversion to C#, and good luck.
I don't care about which programming language is/should be better, but i prefer Eclipse over Visual C#.

Shame on everyone else against my opinion, because if i said so, it's right.
Offline Cero
« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-12-03 02:03:59 »

i prefer Eclipse over Visual C#.

Shame on everyone else against my opinion, because if i said so, it's right.

I'm actually curious, even though we had Visual Studio vs Eclipse threads before.
I dont think I know many people who are experienced in both Eclipse ans Visual Studio.
But many Eclipse lovers haaate Visual Studio but I mett more and more people who absolutely love VS.
I never used it long enough to make suffidient judgement - all I saw was: It's giant like 8GB and compiling takes looong (but I was writing C++, so native compiling)

Offline Rorkien
« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-12-03 02:17:39 »

Well i never got really deep into Visual C#, but the lack of auto-indenting and other little things made me cry. Especially on the C# classes, i was like "LET ME USE SOMETHING ELSE PLEEEEEASEEEEE"
It's a matter of taste, actually; Some people hate Eclipse for being slow and bloated.

And the last line of my previous post was obviously a joke  Stare
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-12-03 18:29:35 »

VS has a nice debugger.  As an editor, it's badly stripped.  And don't get me started on build configurations.
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-12-03 19:19:04 »

I'm actually curious, even though we had Visual Studio vs Eclipse threads before.
I dont think I know many people who are experienced in both Eclipse ans Visual Studio.

It's really hard to compare Eclipse and VS, primarily because the experience using them is vastly different depending on what language you're using. 'Eclipse' usually just means Eclipse for java dev, which is pretty damn slick. Eclipse for C++ is a whole other beast.

Similarly for VS. The VS C++ debugger is great, but the VS C++ code editor is abysmal. It's clunky to navigate, it's code completion and syntax highlighting is often flat out wrong, and it has an annoying tenancy to lock up the whole app when it scans the code. Everyone ends up resorting to something like Visual Assist to make it usable. VS C# on the other hand is a completely different beast - the editor is much more functional, but the debugger is IMHO worse (and worse than Eclipse's Java debugger).

Of course like most MS tools it also really depends on what the rest of your environment looks like. VS is great if you're living and breathing the MS stack all day, but will kick and fight if you ever try and use it in a different way or with different tools. Eclipse, Netbeans, etc. are much more comfortable in letting you integrate different tools and plugins. So even comparing the two versions with relevant languages, your experience varies hugely depending on what other stuff you're doing.

TL;DR version: saying "Eclipse sucks, VS is much better" (or the reverse) is a nearly worthless statement unless you also qualify what languages, toolset, environment, source control, app and functionality you're developing with/in.

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-12-03 23:27:20 »

It's all a bit fiddly but Paul's been making great progress converting our framework into C#. Crappy performance problems on the 360 are a bit of a hindrance (hopeless VM - they really missed a trick there).

Plan is to get our games on 360 and Playstation, but Titan Attacks is already being ported into Monkey by another friend of ours to get it on to iOS.

Still utterly shameful that we even have to do any of this but there we have the final results of 10 years of mismanagement of the Java client.

Cas Smiley

Alright, but now I have a really serious question for you.

When you create a new game - will it be Java or will it be directly done in the other languages to get your broader platform support without having to do porting work first? Seems to me that continuing to use Java for PC stuff at this point in time will just be extra maintenance that is not necessary :/
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-12-03 23:35:00 »

It will be Java, because that's what I'm good at and it gives me all 3 platforms that make me enough money to live on (Win, Mac, Lin). I'm totally disinterested in console development because of the daft hoops you need to jump through not to mention the incredible expense. And designing a game that works on touch platforms that is also going to work on the desktop is just laughable.

Cas Smiley

Offline badlogicgames
« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-12-04 00:21:05 »

I think one way to approach mobile for someone like PuppyGames would be to create companion apps/games for your desktop games. I'm not sure how exactly that would fit into your current line-up, but i've seen a few big fish doing that recently. If your games had some kind of persistent state to them, say inventory, an avatar, etc., a companion app could offer you managment facilities for that. Alternatively, if your main game has some kind of in-app currency, you could have a small mini-game mobile app that allows you to earn a bit of that on the go. When you return to your game on the desktop, your freshly earned currency is ready to be spent (or you do it in the mobile app Cheesy).

http://www.badlogicgames.com - musings on Android and Java game development
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-12-04 00:35:01 »

Yeah, we've genuinely looked into ideas along those lines. But of course then we're basically writing completely different software for phones so my general premise still stands - you don't write desktop games and port them to touch - if you've managed to port it then you've probably got a game that simply won't sell on the other platform type.

<further qualification> The only game we've got that will work, even vaguely, on a phone is Titan Attacks. For bonus points someone can try and say why the other games won't work.

Cas Smiley

Offline badlogicgames
« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-12-04 00:41:48 »

Ya, i don't think that you can simply take a desktop/phone game and port it to the other platform. Tablets are a different story though, some genres work on both tablets and the desktop.

Looking forward to see how well Mono/MonoGame perform on all those target platforms.

http://www.badlogicgames.com - musings on Android and Java game development
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-12-04 00:55:24 »

I'm not very sure that tablets are a different story really. The problem is fourfold: touch, form factor, performance, and expectations/situation. Touch is the same problem on both phones and tablets - it's surprisingly different from mouse and of course totally different to a game that uses keys as well to good effect. Form factor again radically changes the nature of a touch interface. Then there's the crappy (relative) performance of these devices and finally there's the situation and expectations that users have when using the device. Mostly it seems that people gaming on touch devices are extremely casual. Getting their attention for any length of time is hard.

Cas Smiley

Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-12-04 01:45:26 »

I do tend to wonder about the level of "immersion" you can expect from a game on a 10" screen where the player's own hand is constantly popping into view.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #24 - Posted 2012-12-04 11:41:52 »

No immersion at all.

Have a close look at the games that are succeeding. Very interesting.

Cas Smiley

Offline gouessej
« Reply #25 - Posted 2012-12-04 14:15:42 »

What is it about C# that you don't like? It's pretty much Java by another name really.

I'm going to use MonoGame to target the other platforms. It's a cross platform conversion of the XNA framework (obviously using Mono).
Mono is nice but it is noticeably different of Microsoft .NET implementation, it is very well explained in this article (still true now):
http://codebetter.com/patricksmacchia/2009/01/19/mono-vs-net-framework-public-api-compatibility/

C# bindings for the OpenGL API are really slower than JOGL 2.0 and LWJGL, Microsoft .NET itself has never been faster than Java, that's why Quake .NET is 15% slower than the original version whereas Jake 2 is faster. I understand that some people need to use C# on some platforms that doesn't support Java yet but C# is not Java, OpenJDK is extremely close to Oracle Java and anyway Normen has tried to make JMonkeyEngine 3.0 work on iOS with AvianVM and JOGL  Grin Java can go everywhere with some small efforts.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #26 - Posted 2012-12-04 14:50:51 »

hmm "small efforts"... fine if you have infinite time, money and patience, are very clever, and know what you're doing. I have none of these attributes.

Cas Smiley

Offline PaulCunningham

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #27 - Posted 2012-12-04 16:31:33 »

That link is nearly 4 years old - go start a new thread if you want to argue the merits of each language / IDE / Framework, eh? Wink

Anyway, here's some WIP screens in various states of brokeness...



Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #28 - Posted 2012-12-04 16:55:30 »

Looks like a pretty cool process.

Just curious, did you ever consider using some of the existing solutions for Java to C# conversion ? like using IKVM and just implementing a LWJGL clone in .NET.

Also how are you handling platforms that don't have OpenGL, some sort of OGL->DX converter (like Angle)? or some other method?

Do you plan to release a general conversion tool so other can use it? (whether commercial or free).
Offline gouessej
« Reply #29 - Posted 2012-12-04 16:58:30 »

hmm "small efforts"... fine if you have infinite time, money and patience, are very clever, and know what you're doing. I have none of these attributes.
You know there have been a few successful attempts of running Java on iOS, it's not pure science fiction.

So whining about who stole what from whom is totally counter productive and wasteful. That's why billions of dollars are wasted in patent and copyright cases instead of people just trying to do some work.
Ok but there is a difference between whining about who stole what from whom and just asking people to respect the right of paternity.

Just curious, did you ever consider using some of the existing solutions for Java to C# conversion ? like using IKVM and just implementing a LWJGL clone in .NET.

Also how are you handling platforms that don't have OpenGL, some sort of OGL->DX converter (like Angle)? or some other method?

Do you plan to release a general conversion tool so other can use it? (whether commercial or free).
It would be fine to have a nice tool chain to do that easily, it would allow to go on coding in Java while targeting platforms supporting C#.

Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

CogWheelz (16 views)
2014-07-30 21:08:39

Riven (22 views)
2014-07-29 18:09:19

Riven (15 views)
2014-07-29 18:08:52

Dwinin (12 views)
2014-07-29 10:59:34

E.R. Fleming (33 views)
2014-07-29 03:07:13

E.R. Fleming (12 views)
2014-07-29 03:06:25

pw (43 views)
2014-07-24 01:59:36

Riven (42 views)
2014-07-23 21:16:32

Riven (30 views)
2014-07-23 21:07:15

Riven (31 views)
2014-07-23 20:56:16
List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 13:54:12

HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 03:59:08

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:58:24

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:47:22

How do I start Java Game Development?
by ra4king
2014-05-17 11:13:37

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-15 09:59:54

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-06 15:03:10

Escape Analysis
by Roquen
2014-04-29 22:16:43
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!