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  Spine: 2D skeletal animation  (Read 69372 times)
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Offline kappa
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« Reply #150 - Posted 2013-01-09 14:59:46 »

I also want to set the window opacity on Windows (the app window fades in), as I do with AWT. This isn't that important, but it's the little polish that makes things nice. If I didn't care I'd just use Swing's Metal L&F. Tongue
Is the above currently done? if so, maybe the fade effect is interfering with the Display creation as the window may not be visible or partially fading at that time.

Just curious, what is the minimum OpenGL version requirement for Spine?
Offline Magnesus

Senior Newbie





« Reply #151 - Posted 2013-01-09 16:44:26 »

Is there a way to convert old project (from Spine 0.81beta) so it works in new Spine? I thought it would be XML file, so it would be posibble to convert it, but it seems to be binary (but maybe it's just an archived XML?).
Offline Shiu

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« Reply #152 - Posted 2013-01-09 17:57:41 »

Is there a way to convert old project (from Spine 0.81beta) so it works in new Spine? I thought it would be XML file, so it would be posibble to convert it, but it seems to be binary (but maybe it's just an archived XML?).

Afraid not, the file format changed due to skin attachments being added, was not possible to keep the old format.
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Offline Magnesus

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« Reply #153 - Posted 2013-01-10 19:40:31 »

Even as a simple converter or partial loader? Shame it's not XML or JSON, that would allow to modifying it by hand.
Offline matheus23

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« Reply #154 - Posted 2013-01-10 19:42:47 »

Even as a simple converter or partial loader? Shame it's not XML or JSON, that would allow to modifying it by hand.

That would allow to write loaders and converters for the internal skeleton animations as well, which would lead to people writing their spine-project-file to json-animation converter and using spine for free.

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Offline Magnesus

Senior Newbie





« Reply #155 - Posted 2013-01-10 19:55:23 »

That would allow to write loaders and converters for the internal skeleton animations as well, which would lead to people writing their spine-project-file to json-animation converter and using spine for free.

Then encrypt that XML/JSON with a unique key (binded to user e-mail or even credit card number for example) and give the key only to those who paid. Or at least make converter allowing loading old animations. Right now I consider dropping Spine for Spriter because of that. Export to XML/JSON is not enough too - import would also be needed.
Offline Drakkheim

Senior Newbie





« Reply #156 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:00:36 »

as far as I understand it,  the basic exported file for libgdx will be JSON.
The protected part is the Export process that goes from the internal project file to the exported animation file.
Once you buy a license that lets you export, you can look at the exported file and see if you can make a player for your engine.



Offline Magnesus

Senior Newbie





« Reply #157 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:13:52 »

This is not the problem. I'm using libGDX anyway.
The problem is that project files are binary which means you can't modify them by hand - for example recently the file format changed, if it wasn't binary we could fix old files ourself by hand or writting a simple script. Export is not available so I can't export my old animations (fortunately I made only four but they took hours to make) but even if I could there couldn't be ever modified in newer Spine because there is no import. That thing makes my faith in Spine shake because for work I need sth that is 100% sure and that in case the author stop supporting it can be rewritten (hence open format is needed).
Remember DOC files from Word? They were also binary. Binary file formats are hell.
Offline Nate

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« Reply #158 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:14:57 »

Please remember that Spine is unreleased, it is only available in this thread to you guys while we iron out the last few things. We didn't plan to break the format, but we ended up making big changes to how things work and decided it wasn't worth the large amount of work it would be keeping around a lot of code to continue to load the old format and convert to the new format. Very sorry!

Once Spine is released, we won't break the project file format, guaranteed. If we have to make such large changes to how things work, we will do the extra work to continue being able to load projects saved with any version of Spine.

We could support importing from the JSON/binary exported files in the future.

Offline Magnesus

Senior Newbie





« Reply #159 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:16:54 »

Please remember that Spine is unreleased, it is only available in this thread to you guys while we iron out the last few things. We didn't plan to break the format, but we ended up making big changes to how things work and decided it wasn't worth the amount of work it would be keeping around a lot of code to continue to load the old format and convert to the new format. Very sorry!

Would a donation help you make that converter? How do you intend not to break a binary format in the future? With XML/JSON it would be easy, binary tends to be hell to support in the long term - this situation shows it by the way.
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Offline Nate

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« Reply #160 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:20:29 »

Not really. It isn't our goal to drain you of your money. If you want to support Spine, I hope you purchase it when it's released. I do understand you want to avoid losing hours of work. Email me your project file and I'll try to extract at least some of the data, misc@n4te.com.

The binary format uses Kryo and can easily evolve if the changes are additive. Large changes can also evolve by keeping the old loading code and writing code that converts from the old to the new. This is a lot of work, else we would have done it. I doubt this will have to happen in the future, but if it had to we could handle it.

Offline Magnesus

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« Reply #161 - Posted 2013-01-10 20:31:31 »

OK. I've send them. Thanks for help. And sorry about being grumpy sometimes. Wink
Offline Nate

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« Reply #162 - Posted 2013-01-10 22:21:48 »

I recovered your data and sent your projects back updated to the latest Spine format.

Offline Nate

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« Reply #163 - Posted 2013-01-11 10:56:51 »

The download links in the first post have been updated to Spine 0.93.

This should fix the crashes on older OSes and GPUs which seems was indeed caused by using setOpacity before creating the display. Using setOpacity after creating the display worked without crashing, but the window drawing was corrupt when the window was not opaque. I just ripped out the setOpacity stuff. Special thanks to deathpat for all his testing!

I also changed around the order things are initialized in LwjglFrame. It now uses pack() to make the window displayable so the LwjglCanvas can be initialized before the window is shown.

Offline Magnesus

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« Reply #164 - Posted 2013-01-11 12:28:26 »

Thanks to Nate my old projects are restored now. Smiley
Offline kappa
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« Reply #165 - Posted 2013-01-11 13:50:14 »

This should fix the crashes on older OSes and GPUs which seems was indeed caused by using setOpacity before creating the display. Using setOpacity after creating the display worked without crashing, but the window drawing was corrupt when the window was not opaque. I just ripped out the setOpacity stuff. Special thanks to deathpat for all his testing!
Nice job debugging that, I was also running into the issue on an old computer (ATI Radeon Xpress 200 series), can confirm Spine runs perfectly on there now.
Offline Nate

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« Reply #166 - Posted 2013-01-11 13:51:57 »

Awesome, thanks for verifying kappa! I apologize to LWJGL, I put the blame on it in my frustration. Smiley

Offline dreamshard

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Medals: 1



« Reply #167 - Posted 2013-01-12 08:56:41 »

I just started using Spine a couple days ago and I'm already VERY impressed, the UI looks very nice and it has the best bone implementation I've seen in any tool so far. How's progress coming along on kickstarter? Really looking forward to being able to export my animations and I would pay for spine right now if I had the option to.     

Keep up the AMAZING work!
Offline StumpyStrust
« Reply #168 - Posted 2013-01-12 09:25:23 »

Shitsputankies it works. Woot!

I had updated to the latest and greatest nvidia drivers hoping that it would solve it and it didn't. Then I tried testing Display.setParent() and that worked fine so I was like  Clueless  Huh

And then check here and bam! You fixed it.

Have you decided on a price range yet? I would love to buy this if it is not too hard to integrate into my current frame work but I am a baller with a budget right now so...

Offline Shiu

Junior Member


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« Reply #169 - Posted 2013-01-12 12:25:33 »

I just started using Spine a couple days ago and I'm already VERY impressed, the UI looks very nice and it has the best bone implementation I've seen in any tool so far. How's progress coming along on kickstarter? Really looking forward to being able to export my animations and I would pay for spine right now if I had the option to.     

Keep up the AMAZING work!

Thank you very much for the kind words, this mean a lot. We're currently putting final touches on things to be able to launch the kickstarter, I've been working on the example projects and the video for it, for the last couple of days. If everything goes as planned, it will be sometime during the coming week, hopefully in the middle of the week, Wednesday or Thursday *fingers crossed*


Shitsputankies it works. Woot!

Have you decided on a price range yet? I would love to buy this if it is not too hard to integrate into my current frame work but I am a baller with a budget right now so...

Great to hear.
We have decided on a price range yes Wink Details on that will be up soon!
Offline dreamshard

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« Reply #170 - Posted 2013-01-12 21:15:06 »

Really looking forward to the kickstarter this week, good luck. Would there be any chance that I could get a hold of a sample exported file, I want to get it working with the game engine that I'm currently using.
Offline Shiu

Junior Member


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« Reply #171 - Posted 2013-01-14 15:07:47 »

Really looking forward to the kickstarter this week, good luck. Would there be any chance that I could get a hold of a sample exported file, I want to get it working with the game engine that I'm currently using.

Not sure it would make much sense for you without documentation really. Maybe Nate can shed a little more light on that.

Took a small break from all the kickstarter stuff and recorded a little video showcasing the skins feature.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jJVbeXqi9jI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/jJVbeXqi9jI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

Now back to the less exciting stuff  Yawn
Offline Nate

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« Reply #172 - Posted 2013-01-14 16:11:28 »

Cool video Shiu! To make it clear what is being shown, he has an animation running and he switches between two completely different skins. The skeleton and animation are the same, showing that you can reuse all that work for multiple characters. This alone may seem trivial and for naive, limited usage it is, but there are some important details in how Spine handles this.

Imagine you want your goblin to blink during an animation, so you have the animation change the image for the eyes briefly to closed eyes, then back to open. If you go and use the male goblin eyes in the animation, when you change to the female goblin skin it would show the male goblin eyes. I'll leave the details to the documentation, but Spine handles this properly, allowing you to reuse all animations with completely different skins, even those animations that need to swap images.

Another thing Shiu showed in the video is changing to setup mode, modifying the bind pose, then going back to the animation. He made the bind pose look up, then showed that when the animation is applied, the character is looking up. This allows you to do procedural animation, eg having the player look at the mouse location.

Would there be any chance that I could get a hold of a sample exported file, I want to get it working with the game engine that I'm currently using.

I think it would be best to wait to model your engine's runtime off one of the official Spine runtimes. It's a bit tricky to get exactly right.

Offline Drakkheim

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« Reply #173 - Posted 2013-01-15 16:46:54 »

Goblins!   Very lovely!
Offline wreed12345

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« Reply #174 - Posted 2013-01-16 22:03:05 »

@Nate

Do you have any ideas of pricing for this yet? and some time frame for a release date? btw this really looks awesome!

Offline Shiu

Junior Member


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« Reply #175 - Posted 2013-01-17 03:20:10 »

Do you have any ideas of pricing for this yet? and some time frame for a release date? btw this really looks awesome!

We have the price worked out, but I'll refrain from writing it in here, due to the fact that the kickstarter will have a few options. Currently I'm working on the last bits on the kickstarter video. That means, within one of the next couple of days, we're aiming for a friday release, but as always with these things, unexpected things can happen, so it's not set in stone. Oh and thanks Cheesy
Offline Brainman

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Medals: 1



« Reply #176 - Posted 2013-01-17 05:17:44 »

Hi!
I'm having some problems with opening and saving (save + save as) projects. The screen dims for a moment and then undims to normal state without any results on all these options. The same goes for the "Browse" button in "Export" popup. So it looks like the problem is in accessing the file system.
I'm using Win7 x64, log file ends with "Started.", no crashes or sth like that.

Thanks
Offline Nate

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« Reply #177 - Posted 2013-01-17 09:29:24 »

Brainman, that is strange. I hope that is rare! Spine uses a native file dialog to avoid the nasty Swing dialog. Can you try the latest I just uploaded (0.94)? I added code to detect if the native file dialog is closed too fast, so if you do an action that opens a dialog and for whatever crazy reason it doesn't happen on your computer, then next time you try the action then you'll get the Swing dialog. Alternatively if shift is help when opening a dialog, it will open the Swing dialog instead of the native one.

Offline Magnesus

Senior Newbie





« Reply #178 - Posted 2013-01-17 11:57:35 »

Do you know when the first release of the application will be? So we can export and import to libGDX? Will it be after kickstarter or during it? (I've just checked and fortunately though in my country we can't post Kickstarter projects, we can pledge, so I'll definitely back you up guys. Smiley )
Offline Shiu

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #179 - Posted 2013-01-17 11:59:54 »

Do you know when the first release of the application will be? So we can export and import to libGDX? Will it be after kickstarter or during it? (I've just checked and fortunately though in my country we can't post Kickstarter projects, we can pledge, so I'll definitely back you up guys. Smiley )

It will be during the kickstarter. Thanks for the support! Smiley
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