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  Spine: 2D skeletal animation  (Read 68588 times)
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Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #90 - Posted 2012-12-17 03:43:57 »

Finished all the export options, AVI and QuickTime work. Added some lines connecting keys, so you can easily see if they are linear, bezier, or stepped. If two adjacent keys have the same value they will show up like stepped (no connecting line).


Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #91 - Posted 2012-12-19 10:57:18 »

Updated links in first post to version 0.85beta. This fixes a couple crashes, adds some new zooming buttons, export dialog (though actual export is still disabled in the beta, sorry), dopesheet key lines, Mac uses command instead of ctrl for a modifier key, auto scroll when dragging outside of dopesheet/tree, and other relatively minor stuff. The app should be quite stable now. I appreciate you guys trying it out! You're the breast. Smiley

Offline Pickleninja

JGO Coder


Medals: 10
Projects: 1


I'm tired of working for someone else.


« Reply #92 - Posted 2012-12-20 11:41:48 »

I just saw this nate... WOW! I can't wait to try it out! Smiley


-Pickle

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline voidburn

Innocent Bystander





« Reply #93 - Posted 2012-12-20 17:58:37 »

Just a quick note Nate, when a drag is initiated, stop the interpolation of the camera zoom/movement (if in there is time left to process). Scrolling fast or flinging the camera and then initiating a drag before the interpolation is over causes an unpleasant jump, breaking the otherwise silky smooth feeling of the controls Cool

Sorry, I suffer of a serious case of hopeless perfectionism  Roll Eyes
Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 128
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #94 - Posted 2012-12-20 18:01:30 »

I will try this out once I finish refactoring my code. Smiley
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #95 - Posted 2012-12-20 18:35:05 »

Thanks voidburn, I implemented stopping the zoom when a pan occurs. Smiley I probably didn't notice this since I use a trackball. It has a scroll wheel but is still harder to scroll and then quickly pan than with a mouse.

I ended up refactoring a bunch of stuff today, but things are quite a bit tidier. Hope I didn't break anything!

Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 66
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #96 - Posted 2012-12-21 10:23:01 »

I played around with this tool for a while. It's very smooth, professional-looking. It definitely appears to be something I could use to help me make 2D art for small games, and would pay for (at least, if there would be an indie license not costing hundreds of bucks).

Offline Krøllebølle

Junior Newbie





« Reply #97 - Posted 2012-12-24 12:55:52 »

Hope I didn't break anything!

Famous last words!  Grin
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #98 - Posted 2012-12-24 15:33:01 »

Probably no surprise, but I went on a refactoring spree. I had to break the project file format, so unfortunately you'll have to redo your project in the next version. I will avoid doing this in the future but these changes were big.

The biggest new feature is support for multiple skins. This allows you to reuse a skeleton and all animations with different images. This includes support for changing images in animations and the correct images will be used from the skin. I swear this is the last big feature before release. It's just that this feature had no workaround and would not have been easy to implement later.

Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #99 - Posted 2012-12-30 08:48:49 »

Updated the first post with version 0.86. You will have to recreate your projects, sorry. We won't break your project files in future releases. This has all the fancy refactoring, the new skin stuff, and lots of minor polish. You can see the export features but can't perform an export as this is still a trial version.

I spent a lot of time on the libgdx runtime since it will be ported to other game libraries. After a number of iterations it has turned out pretty slick.

We are working on a simple kickstarter video and hope to have it up soon. Once that happens we will offer the full version to our kickstarter backers, which means you'll have export and the libgdx runtime available and can use Spine in your games.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #100 - Posted 2012-12-30 15:23:20 »

I tried the editor and it seems pretty good, so I'm thinking about writing a runtime for the animations produced - any ideas on how this would be best done? How final is the actual file format at the moment? Is there any documentation on how the runtime should behave?

Porting over the libgdx runtime sounds like a good start, but I'm worried I'll have to constantly update it if there's new features etc. going in. Particularly if there's no actual documentation, just a 'de facto' standard of whatever-the-libgdx-runtime-does. (It'd be Ruby all over again!  Angry )

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline Shiu

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #101 - Posted 2012-12-30 16:01:55 »

@Orangy Tang

Not sure if Nate will be making documentation for the runtimes, but if I know him right, he probably will.  We will support some of the major frameworks/engines, but I can't give you a concise list yet.
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #102 - Posted 2012-12-31 16:20:31 »

I think it is best to maintain "official" runtimes for various game libs rather than carefully spec out the data format and hope people implement it right. Also I don't see the format changing dramatically. The official runtimes could easily be used as a reference to support esoteric or one-off game libs. Developing a runtime solely from a spec of the file format would be a pain. The math for transforms itself isn't hard, but tricky to get it exactly right. The animation timelines are a little tricky to get right too. Most of the libgdx runtime isn't actually libgdx specific, you can reuse almost all of it and for the most part just swap how you draw attachments. This means if the format changes or features are added, re-porting the runtime is easy. To give you some sense of the size, the libgdx runtime is 1600 LOC, which includes both the JSON and binary loaders.

The format itself has already gone through some iterations and I feel that it is pretty stable as is. Attachments have a type, so when we add bounding boxes (relatively soonly) it won't change the format. There isn't any short term plan to change the format. Actually implementing some games with it may highlight any weak parts of the API though, so I can't claim everything is set perfectly in stone. Smiley

Offline Drakkheim

Senior Newbie





« Reply #103 - Posted 2012-12-31 16:47:13 »

That makes me happy. 

I'm beginning to think that that'll be downfall of Spriter.. :-/ There's been several attempts at getting their format working in java, but people disappear, don't have time, only implement what they need, use different libraries etc.
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #104 - Posted 2012-12-31 16:49:38 »

Aye, it would hobble a tool like this to not have good game library support so I think it should be part of the core development. We won't work on runtimes for game libs other than libgdx until the kickstarter though.

Offline dedara

Junior Newbie





« Reply #105 - Posted 2013-01-04 01:51:10 »

Oh my God!

You and people like you disparage the whole work of Open Source community, this is a shame.
Although it is really great what you've done, but this just is not fair, that you take someone's work and willingness to share their work to the community, and with that you want to earn money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFMMXRoSxnA

Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #106 - Posted 2013-01-04 01:59:19 »

Ha! I probably shouldn't take your obvious troll bait seriously, but I'm a sucker. Wink Maybe you should click the OSS projects link in my signature? I'm the author of libgdx upon which Spine is built. I give away libgdx, Kryo, and many other projects for free. I also maintain and support users of my projects for free. People who write OSS know what they are doing when they choose a license that allows others to profit for their work. Who are you to judge people who would follow the author's licensing to profit? There is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for my efforts. Software engineers need to eat too.

Offline badlogicgames
« Reply #107 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:00:59 »

Actually, I AM THE AUTHOR of libgdx, Nate is just one of my many minions. In any case, i approve of Spine (as long as i get my cut)

http://www.badlogicgames.com - musings on Android and Java game development
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #108 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:07:47 »

Haha WE are the authors. Can't let me just make one little point... Tongue

Offline dedara

Junior Newbie





« Reply #109 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:26:40 »

Hee,  persecutioncomplex Roll Eyes Shocked

So, who is the real author of the libgdx.
Offline Danny02
« Reply #110 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:43:27 »

the two above are of course the main contributors, but the projects has as many other open source projects lots of authors. I also contributed some lines to it(like 5 or so) Smiley
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 145
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #111 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:45:31 »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFbCS4a14J4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/hFbCS4a14J4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

Offline dedara

Junior Newbie





« Reply #112 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:47:42 »

the two above are of course the main contributors, but the projects has as many other open source projects lots of authors. I also contributed some lines to it(like 5 or so) Smiley


Great man, does that mean that you also have your share(cut) in the "Spine" !?
Offline dedara

Junior Newbie





« Reply #113 - Posted 2013-01-04 02:58:45 »

Ha! I probably shouldn't take your obvious troll bait seriously, but I'm a sucker. Wink Maybe you should click the OSS projects link in my signature? I'm the author of libgdx upon which Spine is built. I give away libgdx, Kryo, and many other projects for free. I also maintain and support users of my projects for free. People who write OSS know what they are doing when they choose a license that allows others to profit for their work. Who are you to judge people who would follow the author's licensing to profit? There is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for my efforts. Software engineers need to eat too.


And finally, just to mention:

"It abstracts away the differences between writting desktop, Android and HTML5 games based on standards like OpenGL ES / WebGL, JAVA"

Just suppose that:

OpenGL ES / WebGL = $ 6000
JAVA (Eclipse IDE) = $ 500
------------------------------------------

SPINE = $ 7000 / or never written !

Sorry for the hard words !

PS: I forgot to mention "lwjgl"!


Offline masteryoom

JGO Coder


Medals: 5
Projects: 2


If you look closely, you might see it turning...


« Reply #114 - Posted 2013-01-04 03:01:07 »

I don't get that

Smiley
Offline Jimmt
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 128
Projects: 4
Exp: 3 years



« Reply #115 - Posted 2013-01-04 03:15:58 »

Even worse than m77. At least m77's entertaining sometimes. But your bold text is just taking up space on my screen.
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #116 - Posted 2013-01-04 03:35:14 »

Sorry for the hard words !

If you're actually sorry, you can click the "Remove" button next to your post.  Otherwise, don't blow smoke up my ass.

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 345
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #117 - Posted 2013-01-04 03:37:30 »

What the hell are you blabbering about dedara? What is your point? Nate is making Spine paid so, you know, he could actually eat something every day.

Offline Shiu

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #118 - Posted 2013-01-04 05:30:39 »

Dedara what exactly is the point of your posts? Now if you're complaining that we are charging for software largely built on OSS you are forgetting a couple of things. First of all spine would never have become public, we would have kept it to ourselves simply due to the fact that it would have been unpolished and pretty much impossible for others to use. By making the choice of charging for it, we have forced ourselves to polish everything, and by that needing to put far more work into it. Secondly, Nate is in fact one of the main contributors on libgdx together with Mario, hell even I have contributed things to libgdx, however limited, I am by no means an author though. I'm the guy behind most things artsy in spine, and many design decisions, if we had gone our original way, things would have been very different, and just to be able to use the runtimes you would have needed softimage to export the data from and trust me when I say it would have been far more expensive than spine will be.
If you still don't approve of this, then by all means feel free not buy it and use something else, but please do not derail this thread with unfounded bile.

Reading your posts again, I realize that you're probably trolling, I simply do not believe that you can be that naive, to expect everything to be free, in your eyes all games released using libgdx should be free as well?
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #119 - Posted 2013-01-04 07:26:53 »

Oh my God!

You and people like you disparage the whole work of Open Source community, this is a shame.
Although it is really great what you've done, but this just is not fair, that you take someone's work and willingness to share their work to the community, and with that you want to earn money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFMMXRoSxnA



There's nothing wrong with making money from OSS. You are simply factually incorrect. I like RMS but he's not trying to create a world in which software engineers can't make money, he's trying to create a world in which software cannot restrict your freedoms.

I'd suggest you learn a little about OSS before you open your mouth again.  And quite frankly, as the author of some great OSS software which other's have profited from, I think you should apologise to Nate.
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