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  Spine: 2D skeletal animation  (Read 72503 times)
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Offline Nate

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« Posted 2012-11-27 09:17:40 »

Edit: Spine is released! Click here for the official site!



I've been unemployed and working full time for a few months now on a tool called Spine, which does skeletal animation for games. I do the coding on the project and my friend Shiu does the art. It started because we wanted to make games but didn't have a way to bring them alive in the ways we wanted.

Shiu is a pro at Softimage so at first we tried to use it to build skeletal animations. We wrote quite a lot of JavaScript Softimage plugins to make setup easier and to export the skeleton and animation data so it can be used in games. The setup was still very difficult. Also, Softimage can do so many things, if you stray at all from the path our plugins support then your animations won't work once exported. In general the workflow even with plugins to help was not very good.

We of course looked at other tools. We found a handful of tools that could do this type of animation, but usually it was too difficult or impossible to make use of the data outside of the tool. None of them had the streamlined workflow we envisioned. We were particularly inspiried by UBIart, though unfortunately it looks like it will never be released for use outside Ubisoft. We took a close look at Spriter, which at that time had been funded on Kickstarter 4 months prior. Spriter's alpha release was not usable at all. It crashed often and didn't have many required features such as skeletal animation (!), separate SRT keys, tweening curves, and a dopesheet. We gave some feedback to Lucid on his forums about what we'd like to see, but ultimately decided that Spriter wasn't ready and may never have the features we wanted. More recently there is Objecty but it looks to still be in its infancy, needing both funding and time to see what it will become.

Every time I go to write a game I end up writing tools instead (see libgdx, Kryo, and a dozen other OSS projects and unfinished games). Right now I am unemployed by choice, with the dream of becoming successful writing software for myself. I was hesitant to spend my time going off in the weeds and writing another tool. Time will tell if it was a good choice, but I decided to make the tool we envisioned. Part of what sold me on the idea is that it is a commercial project. The idea is to sell the tool and also to use the tool to make our own games.

Selling tools isn't a great business model because it is a niche market. The mobile game market has some 500M potential buyers and growing, selling to developers is a much, much smaller market. Still, if Spine can make $50k+ then it isn't a total disaster. If it gets past 6 digits I will be plenty happy, as it will buy enough time to take a serious run at making mobile games.

We have a whole lot of ideas, but have managed to reduce scope enough to reach a milestone version which has all the major features we wanted, start to finish. We are calling this a beta version and it is now ready for you to try out! It is fully functional, except it will not export the skeleton and animation data as JSON or binary for use in your game. You can still save your Spine project, but we need to leave an incentive to purchase the software. If you purchase when we release the full version, then you can open your Spine project and export the data.

We plan on doing a Kickstarter to raise awareness of the software and fund porting the runtime to various gaming libraries. The runtime will most likely be open source to aid integration into games.

Spine is written in libgdx and runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Everything is rendered with OpenGL, so looks exactly the same on all platforms. The entire UI is done with scene2d.ui and showcases the power of that GUI toolkit (but then I'm the author of scene2d Tongue).

Spine can be used to animate just about anything. While we have focused a lot on animating characters and supporting features (eg swapping outfits), Spine can also be used to animate logos, background objects (clouds, trees, etc), GUIs, spapeships, or just about anything you want. A phenomenal example of extensive usage of "cutout" style animation is Rayman. We want you to use Spine to really bring life to your games. Spine also dramatically reduces the art requirement for games because you can squeeze so much out of the same few images.

Congrats on making it through my wall of text, or being a jerk and scrolling past it. Wink Here are the download links as well as a short video to get you started. We are working on a website, better videos, and real documentation.

Spine Downloads
Click to Play
Click to Play
Click to Play


A five minute run through of how to create animations in Spine:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Se0nh1JPh8s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Se0nh1JPh8s?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

A brief overview of a number of Spine features:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2ZOGDhvOxec?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/2ZOGDhvOxec?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

You guys are the first to try it out, so I expect there may be some issues at first with the less tested OSes (Mac and Linux).

Feedback is greatly appreciated!

Offline davedes
« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-11-27 09:43:30 »

Really impressive. Everything is super slick and intuitive. How did you learn to write software that nicely... Shocked

My only critique so far is that it wasn't obvious at first how to switch animations. The little buttons are pretty subtle, and double-clicking the animation "idle" (first thing I tried) just gave me a rename option.

Is it a headless display? AWTGLCanvas or something? Also, what was used to deploy as a .dmg? (Works on my Mac!)

P.S. You should really post this to /r/gamedev and other various channels.

Offline Nate

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-11-27 09:52:37 »

Thanks! I'm self taught, no school at all. Cool We tried to put in a lot of attention to detail to simplify the UI and make using it smooth. Eg, there is no "select" tool, most times you can just click and drag on the thing you want to manipulate.

The "eye" column is the standard way to make something visible in the app, but I agree it is subtle at first.

It uses LwjglFrame from libgdx for the window, which is a JFrame that has an LwjglCanvas (also from libgdx) which uses an AWT canvas and Display.setParent. This way the app window is Swing, which allows for a chromeless window. For deployment it is just a .app folder structure. Do show package contents, edit a couple text files, replace the JAR, and your Java app will run with it! Great to hear it worked well on Mac, my Mini has been in storage for 2+ years while I travel around. I dread any problems that crop up, as I have to commandeer a friend's Mac.

Yeah, we definitely hope to get the good word out about the program, but first we are relying on you guinea pigs guys to test it out with various OSes and configurations so we catch any major problems. We are also sending it to various animators who have expressed interest for their professional input. After a while we'll make the beta more visible, put up the Kickstarter, etc. Exciting times! Smiley

Note the editor supports multiple skeletons. You could orchestrate a whole animated movie! Smiley Game cutscenes!

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Offline krasse
« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-11-27 10:52:04 »

Wow!
This is really cool Cheesy

The tool seems great and also the way you develop it via libgdx and scene2d.ui. Very clever.

Offline arielsan
« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-11-27 12:17:11 »

Tested on Ubuntu 11.10 32bits, it works too. I agree that switching animations wasn't intuitive, I was about to ask you/Shiu how to before I read davedes post.

Offline Shiu

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« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-11-27 13:41:22 »

Made another small video.

Timelapse of setting up and animation spineboy from scratch, the entire thing took around 30 minutes to do.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QihgkbSZ6S8?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/QihgkbSZ6S8?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;start=</a>

Thanks for all the nice comments guys, we really appreciate it, and pushes us forward to make spine better and better.
Offline Ultroman

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« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:03:06 »

This is AMAZING! I want to buy it RIGHT NOW! What'll you charge? And is there any way to get an advance beta code or something?

- Jonas
Offline Shiu

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« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:06:21 »

Thank you very much Ultroman. We haven't settled entirely on the price yet, but it will be very affordable I can guarantee you that much.
You can already download the beta, Nate linked to it in his first post here Smiley
Offline Ultroman

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« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:12:50 »

I know, but we need an export function here! ^^
*waves bundles of money at you*

- Jonas
Offline Shiu

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« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:19:22 »

Don't worry it wont be long before you can buy a version with export functionality in it, we're just ironing out the worst bugs at the moment Smiley

Out of curiosity, which framework/engine do you use ?
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Offline Ultroman

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« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:40:16 »

Libgdx. I just started on it a few months ago (moving from a lot of intricate Java2D work in the past years), but we're a small group of very committed individuals, creating games primarily for smartphones, although we also have been developing a desktop game for a long time now.

I have to say, even if you guys primarily aim to make games, it seems to me that your passion for the industry and your insight into the complex frameworks needed to create good engines and games (and perhaps a little laziness?), combines to an incredible ability to create the best tools out there. Libgdx is so easy to use and understand once you get the hang of it, and this...this is just gold in the hands of just about any artist! You can definitely sell stuff like this, and easily make a living selling small tools for different tedious tasks. What most software companies do, is try to create some large environments that do everything within an enormous scope, so the programs become almost impossible to learn because of their counter-intuitive layouts, full of stuff someone (and not you) might need some day. This (Spine) is the kind of tools we need.

Just like Aureliens Physics Body Editor. That one saves me a lot of time! I'd really wish libgdx had its own physics library in the same sane way they've implemented so many other things, though. I don't think Box2D is very intuitive. Why do I have to create 4 different objects just to represent a single object in my world? And then it doesn't even have texturing or breakable bodies implemented. I just know Nathan and Mario and the team could do it better themselves.

- Jonas
Offline matheus23

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-11-27 14:50:44 »

Even though animating body parts with bones is actually a really, really hard task, this program makes it really easy.

I'm here on Archlinux, running java 7, and this just works like expected.
I've had some problems understanding, that selecting bones changes the things shown in the "Dopesheet", but I think you should leave it as is, because that was just my mistake anyways Wink

It would also be cool if you would let the user (or in this case, Developer) define their own "Curves" and export them and load them, and use them as standard curve.
And probably also let the user define mathematical formulars for their curves, for example the cosine or f(x) = 2t³ - 3t².

All in all this program gives a really easy understandable and useable user interface, unlike blender for example (though it's much, much more complex).
You should really use this to show of what libGDX can do Wink

Oh one thing I forgot: Are you planning in supporting svg's as images / graphics for bones? One last feature I'd like Wink

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Offline Shiu

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« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-11-27 15:00:06 »

Libgdx. I just started on it a few months ago (moving from a lot of intricate Java2D work in the past years), but we're a small group of very committed individuals, creating games primarily for smartphones, although we also have been developing a desktop game for a long time now.

Ok, libGDX will be the framework we create import classes for first Smiley
We're not planning on bloating spine, we have more features we want to add, but we want to keep it manageable and easy to use.
As for physics in libGDX, I believe good physics engines are a huge undertaking, so I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon, what could maybe be done, is an easier way to integrate box2D in the framework, but that's beyond me Wink

Quote
Even though animating body parts with bones is actually a really, really hard task, this program makes it really easy.

Glad to hear you are finding it easy to use Smiley
We plan to have presets for the graph editor, where you will be able to create your own and load them, so it's coming. Mathematical input sure is an interesting idea, but if it ever makes it in, I can't say.
Custom bone graphics is a good idea, but I can't promise that it will be added quickly, it's not something Nate and I have discussed, we have some more important things to implement first. What kind of bones were you thinking of, graphics wise?
Offline matheus23

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« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-11-27 15:05:57 »

Custom bone graphics is a good idea, but I can't promise that it will be added quickly, it's not something Nate and I have discussed, we have some more important things to implement first. What kind of bones were you thinking of, graphics wise?

Oh, eh...
As I understood you currently can only bind png, jpg, etc. images to bones, right? (Seeing all those .png's in the example project folder)
It would be cool if you could enable the user to load vector graphics, for example the svg file format. Svg's are quite powerful, and fit such tasks, where the characters are pretty big and very deltailed, very good.

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Offline Shiu

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« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-11-27 15:07:16 »

Custom bone graphics is a good idea, but I can't promise that it will be added quickly, it's not something Nate and I have discussed, we have some more important things to implement first. What kind of bones were you thinking of, graphics wise?

Oh, eh...
As I understood you currently can only bind png, jpg, etc. images to bones, right? (Seeing all those .png's in the example project folder)
It would be cool if you could enable the user to load vector graphics, for example the svg file format. Svg's are quite powerful, and fit such tasks, where the characters are pretty big and very deltailed, very good.

Oh, completely misunderstood you then. I really can't say if SVG import will be possible, but Nate is following this thread and I'm sure he can chip in some information on the subject Smiley
Offline matheus23

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-11-27 15:09:34 »

[...] SWG [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics
Grin  Pointing Smiley
 Roll Eyes

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Offline Shiu

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-11-27 15:16:35 »


Fixed! I actually work a lot with vector graphics, so that was embarrassing  persecutioncomplex
Offline impaler

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« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-11-27 16:57:47 »

I just had a go with it and everything is of very high quality.
It runs very nicely on a Mac so no problems there.

I sent the link to my colleagues and there are quite a few artists amongst them and I am curious of their feed-back.

But this tool is very very good for developers. I haven't used it much, I agree that there are a few actions which are not obvious right from the start but once you learned them you realise how easily accessible they are. Like the switch between the Setup and Animate screens.
Also some hints on hover over certain buttons would be great, but I reckon that is in the polish phase. Most of them are there.
Also the transitions of the widgets are very nice. It makes the app very pleasant and slick.

I will come back with more feed-back once I used it but at a glance it looks great!
Will spread the word.
Offline Danny02
« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-11-27 18:23:41 »

nice tool,

everything is running as indented I guess, on my machine, but I get this exception in the console:
Error setting image directory.
net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyException_linux: Error watching examples/spineboy/images : Bad file descriptor
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotify_linux.addWatch(JNotify_linux.java:109)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyAdapterLinux.createWatch(JNotifyAdapterLinux.java:123)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyAdapterLinux.addWatch(JNotifyAdapterLinux.java:104)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.JNotify.addWatch(JNotify.java:86)
   at com.esotericsoftware.skeleton2d.editor.ImageMonitor.updateWatch(ImageMonitor.java:125)
   at com.esotericsoftware.skeleton2d.editor.Editor.create(Editor.java:231)
Offline Shiu

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-11-27 18:28:08 »

I just had a go with it and everything is of very high quality.
It runs very nicely on a Mac so no problems there.

I sent the link to my colleagues and there are quite a few artists amongst them and I am curious of their feed-back.

Thank you very much for your support Smiley
We are indeed in the polish phase, so we will get all the tooltips in before 1.0

nice tool,

everything is running as indented I guess, on my machine, but I get this exception in the console:
Error setting image directory.
net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyException_linux: Error watching examples/spineboy/images : Bad file descriptor
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotify_linux.addWatch(JNotify_linux.java:109)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyAdapterLinux.createWatch(JNotifyAdapterLinux.java:123)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyAdapterLinux.addWatch(JNotifyAdapterLinux.java:104)
   at net.contentobjects.jnotify.JNotify.addWatch(JNotify.java:86)
   at com.esotericsoftware.skeleton2d.editor.ImageMonitor.updateWatch(ImageMonitor.java:125)
   at com.esotericsoftware.skeleton2d.editor.Editor.create(Editor.java:231)


You are not the only one on linux getting that error, and I believe Nate knows what is causing it and is fixing it. A new version to download will be up soon, a few bugs have already been fixed in it.
Offline namrog84

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Keep programming!


« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-11-27 19:19:13 »

Excellent looks great, now I just need an artist Cheesy

I will play around with it later and report if I find any bugs or anything.

Keep up the good work!

"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline Nate

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« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-11-27 20:46:52 »

Welcome to JGO, Shiu! Wait, how did you get past registration?! Zing! :p

What'll you charge?
I think pricing for a niche product is hard. With a reduced market size the price needs to be a little high, but exactly where to set it is tricky. What do you guys think would be a reasonable price?

Some similar apps tend to have multiple pricing levels, eg $X for a "standard" version and $Y for a "professional" version. I'm not a big fan of making useful features only available at a higher price point, though I guess it might make sense for certain features (but probably not for Spine).

Some apps say if you make $N/year you need to buy the professional version. This is a way to tax successful apps while keeping the app affordable for everyone else. It is hard to enforce though and I have a feeling doesn't have much of an impact on revenue.

Some apps have you buy a specific version and offer subsequent versions at an upgrade price, or allow upgrades for a limited time (such as 1 year). This is a way to milk more money out of your user base later. They usually then offer a "lifetime" price which is slightly higher than what they probably should charge.

For some context: Spriter is $25 for preorder. TexturePackerPro is $30 (it just packs textures... which libgdx does for free!). Objecty is $25 w/ updates for 1 year, $96 for lifetime updates, $160 for 5 licenses w/ lifetime updates. Game Maker is $40. Games Factory is $59. UDK is $99 + royalties. Multimedia Fusion is $119. iTorque2D is $149. Corona SDK is $199/year. Unity is $400 per mobile platform.

Are you planning in supporting svg's as images / graphics for bones?
This would be game library specific. We aren't planning it for libgdx though. The only decent library to do it is AGG. I've done it and it is neat but a huge pain (see PennyPop).

I don't think Box2D is very intuitive. [snip] I just know Nathan and Mario and the team could do it better themselves.
Well, we tend to only tackle projects where we have ideas for innovation. Physics is hard.

net.contentobjects.jnotify.linux.JNotifyException_linux: Error watching examples/spineboy/images : Bad file descriptor
Uhg, not sure why this happens. Spine watches the filesystem for changes to the image directories. Adding/removing files from your image directory will add/remove them from Spine's tree instantly. Also, editing an image on disk will instantly update it in Spine. We use JNotify for this. It is supposed to use INotify on Linux but it appears to fail here. The path is right. I've tried using an absolute path, same error. Not sure where to go from here? Sad I could add a refresh button to the tree for Linux, but it's unfortunate to lose this cool feature.

Could someone test the filesystem watching on Mac? On the filesystem delete an image, add an image, and edit an image used on a skeleton.

Offline namrog84

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Keep programming!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-11-27 20:58:59 »

Although I am always a fan of free

I'd personally say
minimum $20  (no question, do not go lower than this)

$40 maybe?  
----- (with free upgrades for 12 months after purchase date)

-----($20 for pre-orders?)  
---- (preorder costs same as $40, but offers lifetime or 2-3 year free upgrades)


no more than $100  (unless you plan to have some very unique/special features)(idiot proof, tons of documentations and help with at least 2-3 different game libraries/framework)


Although I haven't personally used it yet, and I am not sure what sort of additional functionality it has yet, so this is just from having used the other tools you mentioned and looking at the videos.


No royalties.
(perhaps $40 for 'spine mentioned in credits', $80 for no credit needed)? Although impossible to enforce

Do you think there is enough stuff to be continued support to justify a 'subscription'

Lastly, you could always go the
'yay indie' approach.
the normal price, 30-40, 80 or whatever for most people, unless you are a 'bigger company' or an 'indie studio' producing profits of excess in $100,000 annually, then charge them $250 or something. Although this is once again 'trust system'





"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline xsvenson
« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-11-27 21:11:18 »

Very impressive. Great work

“The First Rule of Program Optimization: Don't do it. The Second Rule of Program Optimization (for experts only!): Don't do it yet.” - Michael A. Jackson
Offline Danny02
« Reply #24 - Posted 2012-11-27 21:33:19 »

The path is right. I've tried using an absolute path, same error. Not sure where to go from here? Sad I could add a refresh button to the tree for Linux, but it's unfortunate to lose this cool feature.

I implemented the same thing for my framework, and I used the standard feature from Java 7. And it just works everywhere.
https://github.com/Danny02/DarwinsBox/blob/master/ResourceHandling/src/main/java/darwin/resourcehandling/watchservice/WatchServiceNotifier.java
Offline Nate

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« Reply #25 - Posted 2012-11-27 21:36:05 »

And it just works everywhere.
Except Java 6. Wink Thanks for the tip, I haven't looked at that new stuff much. I think that is the way I'll end up going. Under Java 7 can have a refresh button.

Offline Shiu

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Medals: 2



« Reply #26 - Posted 2012-11-27 21:57:47 »

Quote
Welcome to JGO, Shiu! Wait, how did you get past registration?! Zing! :p

I cheated and had ariel tell me what the result was, pasting stuff in eclipse is beyond me, you know that.
Offline Nate

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« Reply #27 - Posted 2012-11-27 22:04:15 »

Shiu and Ariel, I am disappoint. Sad

Offline ra4king

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« Reply #28 - Posted 2012-11-27 22:46:49 »

Oh my FSM this is amazing! It's just so smooth and slick and pretty already. Really great job so far guys.........now if you could someone program a human to be my artist..... Tongue

It uses LwjglFrame from libgdx for the window, which is a JFrame that has an LwjglCanvas (also from libgdx) which uses an AWT canvas and Display.setParent. This way the app window is Swing, which allows for a chromeless window.
Errrr...you do know LWJGL has a hidden switch that allows you to remove the decorations/chrome right? No need to go through clunky old AWT. Just call before initializing the Display:
1  
System.setProperty("org.lwjgl.opengl.Window.undecorated","true");

Offline Nate

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« Reply #29 - Posted 2012-11-27 22:49:00 »

Bah, no, I didn't know that! However LWJGL can't get/set the minimized or maximized window state so I'd still have to use Swing.

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