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  New Guy who needs help  (Read 1742 times)
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Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Posted 2012-10-16 21:45:57 »

Hello everyone. I have been programming with Mark Overmars Gamemaker program for 7+ years and I wanted to switch to Java because it is superior to Gamemaker. I am excited about learning how to create games for multiple platforms.

I am unfortunately very lost as to where I should start. There are so many fantastic engines out there and so many different tutorials that it can get confusing where to start. I have Eclipse and it is fantastic. I have done a little bit here and there(like made a hello world class) but I still dont know the language or understand how it works to a full extent.

if there are any pointers you can give me I would appreciate it. A family member of mine told me that you want to put the least amount of stuff in a constructor but other than that I am pretty much blind.

I am wanting to start working on a project I want to make an isometric hack/slash style game. Which engine would you recommend for ease of use?
Offline Cero
« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-10-16 22:14:18 »

A family member of mine told me that you want to put the least amount of stuff in a constructor but other than that I am pretty much blind.

Not entirely sure want that means, although even if I did, its a pretty random and minor advice for someone who hasnt even got started yet =D

I am wanting to start working on a project I want to make an isometric hack/slash style game. Which engine would you recommend for ease of use?
So I guess we are talking Diablo 1 kinda. What will the scope be ? How big are levels, how many, what can you do, what weapon and/or spells are there ?
Most people, especially at start, create minigames, casual games, mobile type games
A Diablo type game would be more quite a bit more ambitious.
Also graphic wise - do you have an artist ?
What games did you do before ?

Game design is important but you really should get some more experience in coding before tackling something like that

What engine, well, that depends on long term goals.
I think learning something you wont need later, is little bit of time wasting, so I would just recommend Libgdx

Offline ctomni231

JGO Wizard


Medals: 99
Projects: 1
Exp: 7 years


Not a glitch. Just have a lil' pixelexia...


« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-10-16 23:36:22 »

Hmmm... well, it is pretty ambitious of you to want to go from Hello World straight to Hack and Slash, but let me give you some advice as I took a road from a Game Maker to programming C++ and then Java.

First, Java might be the easiest to pick up programming language, but you will need to fully understand how Java works before you venture into making games. The game makers allow you to use a point and click action based interface to create games. Java will not give you this type of interfacing automatically and allow you to make games as quickly as you did with the Game Maker.

In short, you will want to start here...
http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/newbie-debugging-questions-resources/25058/view.html

After you understand a bit more about Java, then you will be able to better decide what library you want to use.

LibGDX: Great scope (ability to program on multiple platforms), semi-steep learning curve.
Java2D: Slowest of all 3 libraries, but works well for 2D without any added libraries.
Slick2D: Great speed and easy learning curve, good introductory to LWJGL (OpenGL).

Consider reading over the beginner stuff first so you know what you are getting into. Then, go all out in coding the hack and slash game once you get situated. Good Luck!

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-10-17 00:04:21 »

Hey thanks for the replys! to be more specific the controls will be like a hack/slash.

The game is inspired by the hunger games. The player will be able to set stat points at the beginning and choose what skills they want to be able to have.

The world will generate randomly.

The player will need to survive by collecting water and food. they will need to monitor their body temperature. In addition they will need to avoid other AI controlled characters(keeping it simple with no multiplay XD)

I am heading this project by myself mostly. My team has kinda dissolved because I have moved and they are so busy with school so I am not counting on having help with any graphical assets. I want to keep it simple. Animated sprites will be fine. possibly just 8 bit style

I remember the good ol days when I was not good with gamemaker. I know I need to take baby steps which is unfortunate. The end product I want to have multiplayer/online support but I want to use prototypes to get myself to that point. my first step will be learning how to make the character move. I just dont wanna start learning one API and have to switch to another because it does not support what I want.
Offline Cero
« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-10-17 00:37:45 »

Well every library supports what you need, in general.

Also forget about network and online stuff for a long while, look at it when you already made some offline games

Talking about scope, if you dont have an artist and no additional programmers things get tough. You may want to scale down your vision to something like Legends of Yore
While keeping in mind that this game was done by one person, however compared to you this is Yoda =D
What you will produce at first will be shit, but you will learn on the way.

Vision is important and Game Design is aswell. However for something like this you need atleast one professional programmer and one professional artist and TIME.

I heard that Diablo 2 was like 80 people, so lets just assume Diablo 1 was 24 people.
Thats 24 people working on this one game, who know what they are doing, fulltime, at least 5 days a week for months

Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-10-17 00:57:44 »

so lets say I go with either LWJGL or Slick2D is there a documentation on the API? a list of commands and what they do?
Offline Cero
« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-10-17 01:11:09 »

so lets say I go with either LWJGL or Slick2D is there a documentation on the API? a list of commands and what they do?

with java every proper library has a documentation, which is called "javadoc"

Offline l3dx

Junior Member


Medals: 1


Say what?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-10-17 05:09:22 »

Forget about graphics for a while. You need to learn programming Java first. Create some console applications until you feel more comfortable with the language.
Offline Phased
« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-10-17 05:27:56 »

Forget about graphics for a while. You need to learn programming Java first. Create some console applications until you feel more comfortable with the language.

I kinda agree with that, learn the basic functions of Java, make sure you know these kind of things first before even starting:
1. variable types (String, int, float, boolean, double etc)
2. private, public, protected modifiers
3. for loops, while loops, do while loops
4. if statements, else statements
5. passing variables between classes
6. try making a simple calculator / text based game in Java (use as many classes and methods as you can, yes its not needed to make these simple things but will give you a clue on how a bigger project will work)

You could learn all these points by just doing point 6, by making a program does not have to be what I said, but will give you a good idea how Java works.
Offline __iCode__

Senior Newbie





« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-10-17 12:40:24 »

Don't start out trying to make a game. There is no use going through tutorials and saying that you can make games if you don't understand what is happening and how the code works. Watch thenewboston's tutorials on YouTube or read a book on Java, when you think that you are comfortable with the language then start making games. I'm not trying to be mean in saying this, I'm just giving you the best advice I can. Hope it helps!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-10-17 19:12:49 »

So quick question. i have decided on LWJGL but is there a way where I can install it into the plugins folder? so I dont have to import the .jars each time I start a project? I am using Eclipse
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-10-17 19:17:57 »

You can make LWJGL a library, though you still have to figure out where to put it, and you still need to add the library.  Chances are you're not juggling a dozen different LWJGL projects, so it really shouldn't be too much work to copy stuff into your lib/ directory.

You could also use Maven or Ivy and then it's just a matter of copy/paste of a single XML file to define your project and have lwjgl automatically downloaded and added as a dependency.
Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-10-17 21:20:19 »

ok cool thanks for your help guys! I appreciate it!
Offline Longarmx
« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-10-17 22:14:44 »

Trust me on this. You do NOT want to go from a hello world application straight to OpenGL. Get comfortable with Java2D. Make some simple 2D games with an easy API and get comfortable with Java. OpenGL is a great goal, but right now you simply don't have the knowledge to create games that are as ambitious as you are describing. I am not trying to be mean, I am just trying to help you out and make things easier for you.

Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-10-18 01:57:52 »

I appreciate the advice. I will try hard to take tiny steps but I am on a timetable. I need to learn very quickly. Is there any cheap online schools that you would reccomend?

I have already been able to create an RTS movement system(without terrain) in java. I just messed around with the code for a bit. you can select units and move them about. Due to the fact that I don't know how to load sounds they did not respond to the character but depending on what type of unit the "Unit" class was it would send a text response through the debug window thing. thank goodness for Eclipse... it makes it much easier haha.

Java and GML are completely different as GML is a scripting language. However once I know how things work I should be able to get moving. Trial by fire ya know? I am already catching on quick.
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-10-18 16:07:28 »

I appreciate the advice. I will try hard to take tiny steps but I am on a timetable.

Why?  Do you need to program a virus to destroy an enemy ship?  Cramming is no way to learn anything, let alone one's first real programming language.


Offline TeslaInnovations

Junior Newbie





« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-10-18 18:22:24 »

Though java is my first real programming language I feel I understand the concepts very well. Just not the structure of the language itself. Because GML is not a real programming language it has alot of restrictions. Working around those restrictions allow you to understand concepts from other programming languages. Fake Parallax Mapping is one thing I looked into. I was able to create systems to allow for this. but like I said... I just dont know the structure of java. I understand the difference between Boolean float's and integers. I understand concept of running threads (something Gamemaker could not do without the use of DLL's). I just dont know the structure of the language. I have alot to learn but I have the willpower to make it happen.
Offline RobinB

JGO Ninja


Medals: 44
Projects: 1
Exp: 3 years


Spacegame in progress


« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-10-18 18:32:57 »

More important do you know objects including Parent-classes / Interfaces / Static-classes with private / protected / public fields, setters, accessors and constructors.
Also Lists, Maps and Arrays are confused a lot, not to talk about the involved genrics.
This is where most beginners fail at in my class.
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