Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (79)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (477)
Games in Android Showcase (109)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (536)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  Question about using an engine  (Read 1825 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline thermalburn

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2012-07-28 08:17:44 »

Hi everyone,

I've spent a few months working on a game of mine, only to find a few engines out there that might help me out considerably. Now i have a general question about using such an engine. Overall in the game development community, is it frowned upon to code an indie game off a prebuilt engine rather than starting from scratch? I'm pretty new to game programming but i feel like im a rather advanced java programmer.

I've been working on my own engine (if you could cal it that) but i feel as though all i'm doing is reinventing the wheel; i'm spending considerable effort programming in functions and honestly in these few months i havent even begun on the actual game yet. I think i went into this project a bit ill informed on my part; i still havent implemented openGL support, lighting, etc etc Sad

so once again, what is your opinion on someone using an open source engine in their indie game?
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-07-28 08:59:56 »

Short of actually stealing code or assets, nothing whatsoever is frowned upon as long as it gets you a good game.  If an engine is what helps you make your game, go ahead and use it -- that's what they exist for!
Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-07-30 21:24:36 »

is it frowned upon to code an indie game off a prebuilt engine rather than starting from scratch?

That is I think the last question I would expect. You make it sound like it has something do with fashion. The cool kids use pre-built engines too, really!

I have a question for you: do you need an engine?

http://scientificninja.com/blog/write-games-not-engines

(note: I'm not saying that blog post is the ultimate truth, it just put some things in perspective for me)
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline thermalburn

Senior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-07-31 03:19:22 »

thanks for the post.

Honestly the reason i want to use an engine is so that i can begin working on my game rather than trying to figure out how to implement openGL lol. I'm kidding Tongue

I'm not really asking this to be "cool" or anything, but i just wanted to know what the indie programmer/developer community thinks about stuff like that. Am i gonna be labeled a "script kiddie" because i didnt start from scratch, considering that i want to eventually sell my product?
Offline ReBirth
« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-07-31 03:55:20 »

As far I see, indie game dev world isn't same as hacking world. No one call you kiddies, larva, or anything rude. Even some popular games are made using TOOL! (upper layer to engine, like GM, C2, Unity). What you need is make something playable and let the world judges it. Tool, engine, or raw language code is your call.

Offline Grunnt

JGO Wizard


Medals: 66
Projects: 8
Exp: 5 years


Complex != complicated


« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-07-31 10:59:51 »

considering that i want to eventually sell my product?

Practically no customer will ever notice whatever framework or engine you are using. It's just some nice colorful logo's, or some meaningless text  sentences somewhere on application startup. So by all means, use the engine which lets you develop a cool game the fastest and which provides the best experience for gamers Grin

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-07-31 11:08:10 »

You do need to make an informed decision about the capabilities of the engine you are using versus the size and complexity of your ambitions, mind. Not all engines are adept at all situations.

Cas Smiley

Offline Damocles
« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-07-31 11:12:00 »

What counts for the enduser is:

#is it easy to install and run (no fizzing with files and setups oe downloading wired plugins)
#does it run (run at all on this machine and setup)
#does it run performant and stable (dont narrow down the game to highend machines)

everthing else is hidden under a layer of smoke for the casual user. So it does not matter much wich engine you use
from the user perspective.

Offline keldon85

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-07-31 11:24:30 »

Use whatever tools give you the greatest edge. I once heard about a programmer who wanted to use nothing but a text editor to code. Unfortunately he had the lowest productivity of the team and had to be fired.

And most importantly, stand on the shoulders of giants. By using Java you're already riding on top of Sun Microsystem's Garbage Collection, Memory Management system and Virtual Runtime Environment, not to mention the Operating System that those technologies are running on top of. So no, feel no guilt or shame, all that matters at the end of the day is the quality of your product (and of course how gratifying the experience is).

Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-07-31 11:43:01 »

I'm a big believer of needing to understand what problems the tools you use are solving or else you won't be able to effectively use that tool to do your job.

And thus in my opinion before you can use a graphics engine you need to understand how the videocard does its thing and how OpenGL works (and more importantly: when it does not work). Before you can use a physics engine you'd need to have an understanding of how the math behind all that works. Heck, when you want to deal with something as simple as input it is a good idea to know how the different devices communicate their signals. Before you can use a game engine it might be a good idea to know how you build a game without one first - the simplest game can do, as long as you have faced and conquered the problems that you'll get when trying to create just any game including Pong or Tetris.

Why do I believe that? I don't believe that you need to learn all that to be able to start creating something - trial and error can already get you to the point where something is happening on the screen. You learn all that to have something to fall back on when things don't work as you expect them to. Which will happen, often. It just sucks when you can't explain it yourself.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Damocles
« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-07-31 11:57:54 »

Its a question of efficiency, timemanagement and focus.

A "low level" Programmer will want to invest time(x) into understanding
and rebuilding a problem (lets say communication with the graphics card)
to have a fallback or workaround in a future project.

An "artist" will just want to have the least hassle by using a tool
to spend time(x) on creating content. While not having all possible
functionality a selfmade engine could have and beeing somewhat locked to this tool and its flaws.

So first question is: what is your main focus.
Another one: does spending time in this tool or technology
pay off in the future.

Offline Damocles
« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-07-31 12:09:32 »

A practical suggestion:

make a list of 5 potential Engines.
Spend 1 day for each getting it set up, looking at some projects other made with it and doing some programming tests.

In the end, rank them and choose the one that you feel most productive with
and that has the features you require.

Offline kaffiene
« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-08-01 03:25:24 »

I'd endorse what Damocles said: it's all about where you want to be focusing your time.  If there are engines that do the things you don't want to do then great!

I'm not using an engine but only because I want to do deferred rendering which isn't well supported in many engines at all (or any Java ones)
Offline matheus23

JGO Kernel


Medals: 106
Projects: 3


You think about my Avatar right now!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-08-01 10:16:09 »

Its a question of efficiency, timemanagement and focus.

A "low level" Programmer will want to invest time(x) into understanding
and rebuilding a problem (lets say communication with the graphics card)
to have a fallback or workaround in a future project.

An "artist" will just want to have the least hassle by using a tool
to spend time(x) on creating content. While not having all possible
functionality a selfmade engine could have and beeing somewhat locked to this tool and its flaws.

So first question is: what is your main focus.
Another one: does spending time in this tool or technology
pay off in the future.
Lol... your completly right, I'm totally the "low level" one Cheesy

See my:
    My development Blog:     | Or look at my RPG | Or simply my coding
http://matheusdev.tumblr.comRuins of Revenge  |      On Github
Offline gimbal

JGO Knight


Medals: 25



« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-08-01 10:35:26 »

The "low level VS artist" is a little bit too black & white for me, but whatever floats your boat Wink There are more realistic ranges in between those extremes.
Offline 65K
« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-08-01 11:09:32 »

I like to save the most precious good you have: time
Currently I use about 10-15 3rd party libraries.

Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

CogWheelz (12 views)
2014-08-01 22:53:16

CogWheelz (14 views)
2014-08-01 22:51:43

CopyableCougar4 (15 views)
2014-08-01 19:37:19

CogWheelz (19 views)
2014-07-30 21:08:39

Riven (27 views)
2014-07-29 18:09:19

Riven (16 views)
2014-07-29 18:08:52

Dwinin (14 views)
2014-07-29 10:59:34

E.R. Fleming (35 views)
2014-07-29 03:07:13

E.R. Fleming (13 views)
2014-07-29 03:06:25

pw (44 views)
2014-07-24 01:59:36
Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 18:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 18:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 18:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 18:26:06

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 13:54:12

HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 03:59:08

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:58:24

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:47:22
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!