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Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2012-07-20 19:16:26 »

Hello, i install java, it's interesting but i want to write 3D applications... So i downloaded Java3D, jMonkeyEngine... And i can't work with them! Case there is no good tutors about Java3D and others... It's easier to me to write on Clear OpenGL. But i can't find it Sad i'm using NetBeans. Where i can find JOGL libs?  Huh
Offline Giovanni

Junior Devvie




chop!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2012-07-20 22:29:35 »

You better don't use JOGL. Simply because there are a lot more members here who can help you with LWJGL, but not JOGL. Download LWJGL here: http://www.lwjgl.org/
Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Reply #2 - Posted 2012-07-21 08:47:29 »

Thanks, i'll try it ^_^
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Offline gouessej
« Reply #3 - Posted 2012-07-21 11:59:53 »

Hi

JogAmp (JOGL, JOCL, JOAL, Java binding for the OpenMAX API) is actively maintained and we really help all people who use our APIs. You can find Java 3D 1.6 pre daily here:
https://github.com/hharrison/java3d-core
https://github.com/hharrison/java3d-utils
https://github.com/hharrison/vecmath

JOGL 2.0 RC9 is here:
http://jogamp.org/deployment/v2.0-rc9/archive/jogamp-all-platforms.7z

The instructions to use JOGL with netbeans are here:
http://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Setting_up_a_JogAmp_project_in_your_favorite_IDE#NetBeans_IDE

There are some instructions to run a typical Java3D application here:
https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=530#c9

I can provide you a version of JMonkeyEngine 2.0 running with JOGL 1.1.1a, I used it in the past. I can port it to JOGL 2.0 if you really plan to use it. You can use Ardor3D with my renderer based on JOGL 2.0.

If you need any help, just go to our official forum:
http://forum.jogamp.org/

You can contact us by email too:
http://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Maintainer_and_Contacts

We have an XMPP chat room too.

Some of our tutorials are here:
http://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Jogl_Tutorial

You better don't use JOGL.
He asked where to find JOGL libs, you don't answer his questions. When my computer has a problem, if I ask some help, I don't expect from someone else to suggest me to buy another one immediately.

Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Reply #4 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:17:22 »

WOW! Thanks a lot ^_^  And now i have one more question, what the difference between LWJGL and JogAmp (JOGL, JOCL, JOAL, Java binding for the OpenMAX API).

As i understand JogAmp = clear OpenGL on java...
And LWJGL = assembly of libs for Game Dev on java...

Thank you very much!
Offline gouessej
« Reply #5 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:35:01 »

You're welcome. Both LWJGL and JogAmp are actually sets of APIs, both contain a Java binding for OpenGL, OpenAL and OpenCL. LWJGL supports OpenGL-ES too in a separate branch (please can a contributor of LWJGL confirm that?) whereas JOGL 2.0 has an homogeneous support of both OpenGL and OpenGL-ES with both backward and forward compatible profiles when it is possible, it works fine under Android and any Linux ARM embedded devices too (PC sticks, high end smartphones, etc). LWJGL and JogAmp have their own AWT-free native windowing toolkit (NEWT for JogAmp). I have to be honest with you, almost no commercial games use JogAmp whereas it has a huge success in other kinds of applications, especially in scientific visualization. There are several good Java engines using OpenGL, most of them use LWJGL or both (LWJGL and JOGL). The JogAmp foundation has decided to provide ports of all renderers based on real users needs, i.e if you need a port, just ask for it and I'll do so. Processing uses JOGL. Ardor3D and Java3D 1.6 pre daily have the best support of JOGL. We have more and more contributers, JogAmp will be even shown at Siggraph 2012 in Los Angeles. We are very excited because we have tons of very promising projects, a full hardware accelerated Java2D stack, curve and text rendering on the GPU, (maybe) support for Tizen and Firefox OS, JInput For JogAmp, etc... You can just look at JogAmp forum, I'm very active on it, I try to support a lot of projects, I have already helped teachers, engineers and students on long term projects. LWJGL community is very active but JogAmp community too (maybe a bit less), we are just less active here because of some problems of "behavior", that's why we prefer using our own forum. LWJGL IRC channel is very active too, I can't deny that. Feel free to ask other questions.

Edit.: there are still some projects that we have not yet started because we are very busy with the slides and the demos for Siggraph, for example the support of OpenSL ES and the improvement of OpenALSoft support for JOAL.

Edit.2: I will probably write a tutorial about Java3D next month.

Edit.3: Our user guide has been updated, you should look at it first.

Edit.4: Tutorials for beginners using JMonkeyEngine 3 are here:
http://jmonkeyengine.org/wiki/doku.php/jme3#tutorials_for_beginners
There is a small video about basic concepts of a scenegraph somewhere but I don't find it anymore.

Edit.5: this is really fine for beginners:
http://jmonkeyengine.org/wiki/doku.php/jme3:scenegraph_for_dummies

Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:45:03 »

wow... thanks a lot!
So, if i want to create a game - it's easier to use LWJGL... but if i want to create any other Application(not game) it's better - JogAmp...
Am i right?

Edit: I found such tutors -
http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/java3d/
http://www.java3d.org/tutorial.html
http://www.vrupl.evl.uic.edu/LabAccidents/java3d/

And i couldn't import models from blender(3ds max, maya) with textures T_T
So i decided find better engine with more tutorials ^_^
Offline gouessej
« Reply #7 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:48:03 »

wow... thanks a lot!
So, if i want to create a game - it's easier to use LWJGL... but if i want to create any other Application(not game) it's better - JogAmp...
Am i right?
Actually, this is what some people wrongly think. Using LWJGL for games is as easy as JogAmp, some JogAmp nice features are a bit helpful for applications, for example the interoperability with AWT / Java2D and the curve and text rendering on the GPU.

If you plan to use JOGL and Java3D, you should look at the source code of Arabian Flights on Sourceforge.net.

Why not using LibGDX?

Offline gouessej
« Reply #8 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:51:48 »

Just export your models to Collada and import them with Ardor3D. Blender format is a bit difficult to support. What was wrong with the importers of Java3D?

Online matheus23

JGO Kernel


Medals: 113
Projects: 3


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« Reply #9 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:54:23 »

The question of LWJGL or JogAmp is a big one.
In the end LWJGL and JogAmp are both almost equally "hard" to write for anything, because they both wrap OpenGL, which will be the most code you write.
The only difference between them is the organisation of the wrapping and the windowing managment (in the first place).

I'd suggest to try out both JogAmp and LWJGL, but only for looking how the window managment is working, and which one you like best. LWJGL has some static things going on there, to make it easier for newbes to get into programming with ogl.
JOGL has some more AWT-like window managment and a more Object oriented design.

And, [offtopic] hey whats goin on with you? 2 posts while writing this?

See my:
    My development Blog:     | Or look at my RPG | Or simply my coding
http://matheusdev.tumblr.comRuins of Revenge  |      On Github
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline gouessej
« Reply #10 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:58:45 »

LWJGL has some static things going on there, to make it easier for newbes to get into programming with ogl.
You can do almost the same thing with NEWT (JOGL) but without static methods (there is currently a lack of doc about that). The bug report 600 shows what we plan to do to improve multi-screen support.

In the end LWJGL and JogAmp are both almost equally "hard" to write for anything, because they both wrap OpenGL, which will be the most code you write.
JOGL contains some helpers for textures and FBO but you can do it in straight OpenGL with LWJGL too.

Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Reply #11 - Posted 2012-07-21 12:59:59 »

I recently started working with 3D graphics on Java. When I tried to export OBJ, i've got vertices's but not a model and material ...

Thanks to everybody ^_^ i'll try them both
Offline gouessej
« Reply #12 - Posted 2012-07-21 13:04:52 »

I recently started working with 3D graphics on Java. When I tried to export OBJ, i've got vertices's but not a model and material ...
You need to use the MTL file too, not just the OBJ file. You can look at this example:
http://ardorlabs.trac.cvsdude.com/Ardor3Dv1/browser/trunk/ardor3d-examples/src/main/java/com/ardor3d/example/pipeline/SimpleObjExample.java

You can use my tutorial to configure Ardor3D but you will have to make an effort if you really plan to use only Netbeans:
http://gouessej.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/le-moteur-3d-ardor3d-fonctionne-desormais-avec-jogl-2-the-3d-engine-ardor3d-now-works-with-jogl-2/

Online matheus23

JGO Kernel


Medals: 113
Projects: 3


You think about my Avatar right now!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2012-07-21 13:05:14 »

LWJGL has some static things going on there, to make it easier for newbes to get into programming with ogl.
You can do almost the same thing with NEWT (JOGL) but without static methods (there is currently a lack of doc about that). The bug report 600 shows what we plan to do to improve multi-screen support.

In the end LWJGL and JogAmp are both almost equally "hard" to write for anything, because they both wrap OpenGL, which will be the most code you write.
JOGL contains some helpers for textures and FBO but you can do it in straight OpenGL with LWJGL too.
Actually you are attacking your own people. I just wanted to be neutral Wink

See my:
    My development Blog:     | Or look at my RPG | Or simply my coding
http://matheusdev.tumblr.comRuins of Revenge  |      On Github
Offline gouessej
« Reply #14 - Posted 2012-07-21 13:11:37 »

Actually you are attacking your own people. I just wanted to be neutral Wink
I attack nobody, I have nothing to hide. Multiple screens are already supported in NEWT but there are still a few things to fix, I prefer being honest.

N.B: You're right about the difficulty. Using a binding for the OpenGL API is almost as hard as using straight OpenGL, you have to understand the concepts.

In my humble opinion, it is better to understand the low level APIs before using middle level APIs (Jzy3D for example) and high level APIs, it drives you much more autonomous even though it is harder but some people here prefer doing exactly the opposite, starting by using high level APIs and learning the lower level things later.

@zetsin Making 3D applications requires an important investment in time, don't underestimate the difficulties and you should look at the video about scenegraph for dummies if you don't really understand how it works. I used plain OpenGL for years but I use scenegraphs to avoid reinventing the wheel.

Offline TimB

Junior Devvie


Medals: 1
Projects: 1



« Reply #15 - Posted 2012-07-26 11:31:18 »

Hello, i install java, it's interesting but i want to write 3D applications... So i downloaded Java3D, jMonkeyEngine... And i can't work with them! Case there is no good tutors about Java3D and others... It's easier to me to write on Clear OpenGL. But i can't find it Sad i'm using NetBeans. Where i can find JOGL libs?  Huh

Did you look at http://jmonkeyengine.org/wiki/doku.php/jme3 ?

JMonkeyEngine3 has very good tutorials, one of the community members has even started doing video tutorials on certain subjects (3d maths and shaders) recently as well.
Offline zetsin

Senior Newbie





« Reply #16 - Posted 2012-07-26 12:40:44 »

yes, i saw it... it's not interesting to me) i wanna write!)
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 355
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2012-08-02 04:12:29 »

If you want to learn OpenGL, check out these awesome tutorials.

For OpenGL bindings, I recommend LWJGL. It has an extremely easy setup, with everything explained in the wiki. If you need any more help, find us at the #lwjgl channel on Freenode.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #18 - Posted 2012-08-02 17:44:55 »

It has an extremely easy setup, with everything explained in the wiki.
You still have to set the Java library path or the native library location.

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 355
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2012-08-02 19:20:33 »

It has an extremely easy setup, with everything explained in the wiki.
You still have to set the Java library path or the native library location.
Everything's explained in the wiki. Also, I meant it's also easier code-wise.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #20 - Posted 2012-08-02 23:58:53 »

It has an extremely easy setup, with everything explained in the wiki.
You still have to set the Java library path or the native library location.
Everything's explained in the wiki. Also, I meant it's also easier code-wise.
Yes the wiki is very complete, the installation for all major IDEs is explained with details and screen captures but the absence of native libraries as separated files eases and drives the deployment more homogeneous, it allows to use only JARs, the Java library decides which native libraries to extract and load, it eliminates confusions when someone runs a 32 bits JVM on a 64 bits machine, it avoids to put dirty hacks into your build script(s) to set the Java library path correctly everywhere. In my case, it allowed me to provide all-in-one ready to use projects, the developer only has to click on the "compile" Ant task and then on "run" and it simply works  Grin

Easier code-wise and more limited when it deals with supporting multiple screens? When LWJGL 3 supports that, it will have to drive its public API a bit less straightforward and say good bye to its static methods for the display.

Offline masteryoom

JGO Coder


Medals: 5
Projects: 2


If you look closely, you might see it turning...


« Reply #21 - Posted 2012-11-20 05:26:25 »

You can also learn LWJGL hereGrin

Smiley
Offline gouessej
« Reply #22 - Posted 2012-11-20 07:32:13 »

You can also learn JogAmp here.  Grin

Offline masteryoom

JGO Coder


Medals: 5
Projects: 2


If you look closely, you might see it turning...


« Reply #23 - Posted 2012-11-21 06:08:25 »

You copied me! Angry (almost)

Smiley
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