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  Preferred OS?  (Read 49554 times)
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Offline ReBirth
« Reply #30 - Posted 2012-06-16 13:29:53 »

To OP, pick one tool/software that you can't leave and no alternative. Look on what OS it'll run. Repeat this until you get one that only will run in one OS.

However I heard Mac OS is picky to certain hardware. Is it true?

I hate them all. Might hate MacOS a bit more than the others. Not sure.

Cas Smiley
Let's write new one, the one that built from [impossible] Java not C++  nor Assembly [/impossible]

Offline princec

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« Reply #31 - Posted 2012-06-16 13:57:42 »

What I want in an OS is...

A UI and general feel something like BeOS without all that stupid animation and transparency and compositing, and designed by someone who has a clue (which currently looking at all 3 main OS flavours appears to be no-one).
The sheer slickness and general bug-free-ness of Mac OS
The power of the Linux shell under the hood somewhere (die cmd.exe die)
Drivers that mostly always work
And the few applications I use on a regular basis to be there. Which is Java, Eclipse, Chrome, Opera (for mail), Skype, Dropbox, Textpad, FruityLoops, Steam, FRAPS, etc.

Linux is just too fragmented to rely upon and doing trivial things is a nightmare. Mac OS walled garden and waste and dumbed down UI galls me. Windows me-too-I-wanna-be-cool-like-Mac has irritated me since Vista. (XP was rather good otherwise).

Cas Smiley

Offline Cero
« Reply #32 - Posted 2012-06-16 14:35:41 »

Here's my suggestions

Well learning another Software after years of experience is just not happening and unnecessary.
And I wouldn't ever switch to Mac, just Linux. However Final Cut Pro is indeed the best Video Editing Tool. But I'm doing fine with Vegas and Premiere.


In related news, my windows 7 machine just froze after I double clicked a jar.
And by freeze I mean, as in whole PC, not even mouse moved anymore - Only choice: restart button on the PC.
I also get the Blue Screen "IRQL Not Less Than or Equal" like twice every month - on entirely different Windows 7 machines, mind you.

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Offline ra4king

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« Reply #33 - Posted 2012-06-16 14:53:07 »

Both my desktop and laptop have Windows 7 64-bit, neither of them have ever gotten a BSOD. Windows 7 doesn't cause BSOD's, it's usually the drivers Wink

Offline davedes
« Reply #34 - Posted 2012-06-16 15:15:51 »

Well learning another Software after years of experience is just not happening and unnecessary. And I wouldn't ever switch to Mac, just Linux.
Learning new software isn't as hard as you make it out to sound. And in the end, having experience with a variety of software will make you a better game developer, and a more sought-after employee.

Imagine if you tried to enter the game industry knowing only Milkshape3D, Paint.NET and Inkscape... The pros would laugh at you. Smiley

Why would you "never" switch to Mac?

Offline sproingie

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« Reply #35 - Posted 2012-06-16 17:59:45 »

Pretty sure you can switch off the goofy effects of OSX and install a theme that isn't so "lickable" and you're left with just the walled garden part.  And no money of course.
Offline Cero
« Reply #36 - Posted 2012-06-16 18:12:40 »

Well learning another Software after years of experience is just not happening and unnecessary. And I wouldn't ever switch to Mac, just Linux.
Learning new software isn't as hard as you make it out to sound. And in the end, having experience with a variety of software will make you a better game developer, and a more sought-after employee.
Well years of experience do make a substantial difference.

Imagine if you tried to enter the game industry knowing only Milkshape3D, Paint.NET and Inkscape... The pros would laugh at you. Smiley
Well yeah because the pros use Adobe and stuff. I opened Paint.NET maybe twice, always use Photoshop.

Why would you "never" switch to Mac?
First of all annoying aspects of the OS:
- I need two mouse buttons
- OS Menu bar transforms to Program Menu bar, wtf
- I had to work with a Mac for 5 min a couple of months ago: I couldn't even copy a folder, seriously.
   I was drag and dropping, "right-clicking"/conext menu, but there was no copy option, nothing worked, and I really tried. It's crazy.

And I mean the main reason should be incredible obvious ?
The price.
Paying $500 for a laptop or like $3000 for the same hardware with Mac, with no advantages, just an annoying OS. Hm...

When I buy Hardware, especially Laptops I try to save as much money as possible.
I specifically look for Laptops that have Linux or no OS installed, because I do know that they include the price for Windows otherwise...

As a matter of fact: I need my laptop for work, and I bought it 6 years ago, HP laptop with a single core sempron, still running, all great.

Offline Jimmt
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« Reply #37 - Posted 2012-06-16 20:32:28 »

I don't like Macs either. Or at least the current state of them. I've used 10.6.8 at school, and I hate it.
Offline davedes
« Reply #38 - Posted 2012-06-16 23:59:18 »

First of all annoying aspects of the OS:
- I need two mouse buttons
- OS Menu bar transforms to Program Menu bar, wtf
- I had to work with a Mac for 5 min a couple of months ago: I couldn't even copy a folder, seriously.
   I was drag and dropping, "right-clicking"/conext menu, but there was no copy option, nothing worked, and I really tried. It's crazy.
It sucks that you're too stubborn to learn new software/systems. Adaptability is a very important quality in the world of technology. Regarding your points...

1. You can left/right click with Mac. (On the subject, the Mac Magic mouse is by far the best mouse I've ever owned.)
2. This may be personal preference, but I've come to find Mac's implementation to be more intuitive. For one, it's consistent and uses Fitt's law. More importantly, though, it leads to less clutter. Windows wastes screen space with unnecessary duplication (i.e. the "Help" menu item, which does the same thing regardless of the active window). And since I generally use keyboard shortcuts (e.g. Ctrl + S) instead of navigating slowly through context menus, I much prefer Mac's minimal and clutter-free design.
3. You can copy a folder with Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V. Or you can Alt + drag a folder to copy it. This is part of Mac's design ethic -- having things "at your fingertips" rather than putting it in an awkward and cluttered context menu.

My main reasons for preferring Mac: increased productivity, lack of bugs/viruses/crashing, and a very consistent and much more intuitive UI design. When I'm working with my tablet in a workflow that moves between Photoshop, Blender and other applications, productivity is essential. Using Expose, Spotlight, Spaces, QuickLook, etc. makes for a much smoother and more productive workflow than what Microsoft and Windows has to offer.

Like I said, I used to be a Windows fanboy -- but once I gave Mac a fair chance I realized I would never go back (unless, of course, Windows improves dramatically).

Quote
The price.
Paying $500 for a laptop or like $3000 for the same hardware with Mac, with no advantages, just an annoying OS. Hm...
I agree that Mac's are overpriced and lack the hardware moddability of Windows. If you need next-gen hardware, Mac is a poor choice.

Offline Cero
« Reply #39 - Posted 2012-06-17 01:10:58 »

It sucks that you're too stubborn to learn new software/systems. Adaptability is a very important quality in the world of technology.
It's just math, you will be spending a lot of time learning new software, unnecessarily: In the same time you could actually be productive.
And its also not beneficial, like I said: I 'm not gonna learn GIMP when the industry wants me to be good at Photoshop, and even like it more.
Or lets say Bender vs Maya/3dsMax...

You can copy a folder with Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V.
Actually I tried this obviously, but it was like Apple Symbol + C instead, which I never tried.

I used to be a Windows fanboy
Well I hate Microsoft and their crappy products the most, which leaves me pretty much with Cas' take on this: All OS' suck.

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Offline davedes
« Reply #40 - Posted 2012-06-17 01:54:52 »

It sucks that you're too stubborn to learn new software/systems. Adaptability is a very important quality in the world of technology.
It's just math, you will be spending a lot of time learning new software, unnecessarily: In the same time you could actually be productive.
And its also not beneficial, like I said: I 'm not gonna learn GIMP when the industry wants me to be good at Photoshop, and even like it more.
Or lets say Bender vs Maya/3dsMax...
I'm not suggesting to use GIMP over Photoshop, I'm suggesting that it's wise to familiarize yourself with a variety of industry-grade software and systems instead of locking yourself into one.

For example, the animation studio I'm working at now relies on Maya and BodyPaint3D. Obviously, somebody with experience in these programs will be more sought-after than somebody who's only worked in 3dsMax and ZBrush.

Knowing a variety of software makes you a more versatile artist, just like learning a variety of programming languages makes you a more versatile programmer.

Quote
Actually I tried this obviously, but it was like Apple Symbol + C instead, which I never tried.
Ah typo, my bad.

Quote
which leaves me pretty much with Cas' take on this: All OS' suck.
Except you've never actually tried Mac... That's like saying Asian food tastes gross, but you've only tasted soy sauce. Tongue

Offline Cero
« Reply #41 - Posted 2012-06-17 02:48:32 »

Quote
which leaves me pretty much with Cas' take on this: All OS' suck.
Except you've never actually tried Mac... That's like saying Asian food tastes gross, but you've only tasted soy sauce. Tongue
Well touché, but it's just so frustrating.
Not being able to right-click is really like loosing one arm.
And that menu bar thing scared me so bad.
It's like... working on eclipse... ooook... now I need to check something on the internet, so lets go to the start menu and...
huh. there is only eclipse related info there... I want the start menu like normal...
Of course the Mac File browser system sucks, but since windows copied it naturally sucks just as much - but I'm sure there are alternative orthodox file managers for mac too...
Thats a point where Linux is also great because, obviously I'm criticizing a graphical interface more than an OS here... however with Windows and Mac these things are very intertwined. With Linux, I can and will customize the GUI as much as I want.

Well, also, I don't even know any Mac people (for good reason I'm sure), so I can't really try it.
And even if I did, the price issue makes meaningless. I would never waste that much money, even if I liked the OS a bit more...

Offline davedes
« Reply #42 - Posted 2012-06-17 04:28:30 »

I'll take this as an opportunity to show off Spotlight and Mac's simple and brilliant user-interface design.

1. Hit Command + Space to open Spotlight. Type in "mouse" and hit enter. If you're on a laptop, type in "trackpad".


Alternatively, you could click the Apple icon in the top left of your screen and open System Preferences, and then select Mouse or Trackpad.

2. Change settings for secondary/right click as desired. A video will even show you how to use your multi-touch mouse/trackpad for the setting you selected.


Another great example of UI design is using Spotlight in the System Preferences window. Notice how it's highlighting relevant pages as you type some key words? And it's smart enough to open the System Scheduler within the Energy preferences when you select the first search suggestion. Very cool attention to detail.


All around, Mac's user-interface experience is fantastic. It's no wonder Windows 7 borrows so many features from it.

Quote
Of course the Mac File browser system sucks
What makes you think it sucks?

It seems like you are doing things in a very Windows-esque way if you are relying on explorer, start menu, etc. just to launch your web browser.

Offline ra4king

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I'm the King!


« Reply #43 - Posted 2012-06-17 04:52:17 »

In the end, you two are simply arguing about the GUI. Overall, both their GUI's suck, both being overly "shiny" and "lickable".

What matters is functionality and productivity per cost. Windows supports the most hardware and has the widest support and most apps. Macs are simply overpriced for (what I see to be) their only useful job: graphics and music/video editing.

Unless you are a graphic artist or music/video editor, Macs are not worth the cost. Windows is good enough if you get good hardware with proper drivers and common sense when using it.

EDIT: Yes, I have used a Mac. Before I got my first computer (this laptop), I used to use my dad's MacBook Pro for schoolwork and stuff. I never liked the GUI and (most importantly) was amazed at the lack of games! Grin

Offline ReBirth
« Reply #44 - Posted 2012-06-17 05:05:49 »

I personally use Win7 with Omnimo pack. Metro look isn't that bad. It just getting rid your nice wallpaper, higher chance accidentally click an icon, and add another bit loads.

Offline davedes
« Reply #45 - Posted 2012-06-17 05:35:57 »

Quote
In the end, you two are simply arguing about the GUI. Overall, both their GUI's suck, both being overly "shiny" and "lickable".
I could care less about shiny or flashy features and animations. I am more interested in features that increase my productivity, make for a better workflow, and make my experience with my operating system less of a headache. Mac is exceptionally good at those things -- and features like Expose, Spaces, Spotlight, etc. make it even easier.

Why does Mac GUI "suck"? In my experience the GUI is far superior to other operating systems I've used -- not just in terms of "flashiness" but in terms of human computer interaction: usability, simplicity, productivity, functionality, etc. What are some negatives about its GUI? ("It's different than Windows" is not a valid argument...)

I can understand Mac's shortcomings in regards to gaming and next-gen hardware. But as somebody who doesn't play high end games and doesn't care to build their own tower, I am willing to pay slightly more for a consistently smoother, more productive, and more bug/virus-free workflow -- and an overall better user experience.

Offline Roquen
« Reply #46 - Posted 2012-06-17 06:02:56 »

My programming workflow in java: emacs, eclipse, bash shell.  regardless of OS.  For some other language replace eclipse with whatever IDE or maybe it goes away.  The OS GUI plays zero role...ever.
Offline moogie

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Java games rock!


« Reply #47 - Posted 2012-06-17 06:28:58 »

My preferred is is windows... Not because I particularly like it, more that I understand how windows "works" so I am very productive using it. My experience with Mac is was os9 and I honestly didn't see anything sufficiently awesome to justify both the cost in dollars and cost in time and effort reskilling to Mac world view. I have only lightly dabbled in Linux, I was not very impressed, the GUI (red hat 6) always seem sluggish even on. Modern computer, I know that there are many other distributions, however I don't have the time to install and evaluate them all! Mind due, with the crazy crappy ur design choices. Of windows lately (ribbon anyone? And metro) I may seriously have to look again into Linux... or just keep with win7 for the next 5-10 years.

Java4k RIP 2014
Offline davedes
« Reply #48 - Posted 2012-06-17 07:23:37 »

My programming workflow in java: emacs, eclipse, bash shell.  regardless of OS.  For some other language replace eclipse with whatever IDE or maybe it goes away.  The OS GUI plays zero role...ever.
You are still relying on the OS and its user interface. i.e. Booting up and logging into your computer, dealing with the file system, switching between programs, taking a screenshot, connecting to a WiFi hotspot, using calculator/notepad/etc, installing and uninstalling software, etc. These things will affect your workflow in various ways, even if the differences may be subtle.

moogie - I wouldn't call OS9 a proper representation of Mac's current operating system.

Offline moogie

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Java games rock!


« Reply #49 - Posted 2012-06-17 09:45:46 »

@davedes: granted, os9 is out of date, but honestly what can you say would be the 'killer app' for conversion from windows OS to Mac OS? I have never seen one that other OSs can do.

Another irrational feeling biases me against Apple... not just their OS, is the way they charge 30% for the privilege to sell on their hardware, their crazy patent battles (Apple is not alone there), though I guess my main irrational feeling against Apple is the fact that they behave like a religion... you have to convert and do it there way (the "only" way).

So maybe it is unfair for me to judge iOS based on technical grounds as I do have an irrational ideological bias against them.

(that said my wife has an ipad, and it is pretty impressive in battery life and responsiveness... (i have not installed any apps and just use the browser) however I am thinking of jail breaking it.

Java4k RIP 2014
Offline Roquen
« Reply #50 - Posted 2012-06-17 10:02:29 »

@davedes: booting up? Zero percent of my workflow..likewise connecting to my wirelesss router.  Filesystem?  c:/cygwin/path vs. /path?  I'm highly unlikely to notice.  Screenshots? zero percent. calculator? No..mathematica or scilab.  Notepad?  Nope..emacs.  Un/installing software...I'm not programming at the point.  I'd say that 90% of the time if I'd been programming for say an hour and walk way from my machine.  I wouldn't be able to say what OS I was working under.  There'd have to been a recent "give" of some kind..say using -PrintAssembly = I'm in linux because I can't be bothered to compile up a version for win7.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #51 - Posted 2012-06-17 10:41:08 »

If we could somehow rip the guts out of the very bottom of linux, before anyone started adding actual "software" as such with all its horrible shellscripts and configuration files, then plonk the Windows device drivers stuff on top of it, and then some sort of slight modernisation of BeOS GUI I'd be ever so happy. A Linux where the GUI was thoroughly integrated into the OS and designed by that rare beast - a real UI designer - is what I want, rather than the bastard-son-of-X and all that terrifyingly shit Unity/GNOME/KDE/etc. monstrosities.

Then the iron rule of a despotic overlord like Apple or Microsoft to stop it forking pointlessly and ensure it continues to work as advertised for a few decades.

Cas Smiley

Offline Orangy Tang

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Monkey for a head


« Reply #52 - Posted 2012-06-17 11:59:34 »

I used to hate using OSX but I'm a convert now after using it for a couple of years. I don't know if it's down to hardware, drivers, OS, apps or just good old testing, but I find OSX doesn't do those tiny freezes and halts that you get with windows *all* *the* *time*. It's a small thing and it's probably just comes down to people doing heavy lifting in UI threads (both within windows and in apps) but over a whole day it doesn't half annoy me.  Angry

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline Cero
« Reply #53 - Posted 2012-06-17 12:10:40 »

Quote
Of course the Mac File browser system sucks
What makes you think it sucks?

It seems like you are doing things in a very Windows-esque way if you are relying on explorer, start menu, etc. just to launch your web browser.

I dont use the Windows Explorer either, ever.
I grew up with Norton Commander.
So I use this baby:



And Gnome Commander on Linux...

Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #54 - Posted 2012-06-17 14:57:12 »

Looks like Directory Opus. Very nice.

Cas Smiley

Offline 65K
« Reply #55 - Posted 2012-06-17 16:37:54 »

Oh yes, the Total Commander.
My most essential tool ever.

Offline davedes
« Reply #56 - Posted 2012-06-17 16:41:09 »

Quote
but honestly what can you say would be the 'killer app' for conversion from windows OS to Mac OS? I have never seen one that other OSs can do.
I wouldn't say it's a single "killer app". It's a combination of all the things I've already mentioned that -- when working with the OS for many hours in a day -- makes you realize that one is smoother, simpler and more productive to use than the other.

Like Orangy said, "over a whole day it doesn't half annoy me." When you are working on the computer for many hours in a day, the little things tend to add up.

Quote
@davedes: booting up? Zero percent of my workflow..likewise connecting to my wirelesss router.  Filesystem?  c:/cygwin/path vs. /path?  I'm highly unlikely to notice.  Screenshots? zero percent. calculator? No..mathematica or scilab.  Notepad?  Nope..emacs.  Un/installing software...I'm not programming at the point.  I'd say that 90% of the time if I'd been programming for say an hour and walk way from my machine.  I wouldn't be able to say what OS I was working under.  There'd have to been a recent "give" of some kind..say using -PrintAssembly = I'm in linux because I can't be bothered to compile up a version for win7.
We have a different definition of "workflow", then.

For example, I travel frequently (read: multiple locations per day) so boot up, suspend/resume, WiFi, etc. all become part of my programming workflow.

Things like file system are part of your workflow whether or not you realize it. Even something like File -> Open generally relies on the platform's file browser. You're telling me you never need to open, copy, move, search, preview, etc. files when working on a project?

Offline Cero
« Reply #57 - Posted 2012-06-17 17:06:09 »

Oh yes, the Total Commander.
My most essential tool ever.
First thing I install when I re-install my system. Going through the windows explorer to find the total commander installer is just like holding your breath.

Things like file system are part of your workflow whether or not you realize it. Even something like File -> Open generally relies on the platform's file browser. You're telling me you never need to open, copy, move, search, preview, etc. files when working on a project?
Yeah its dreadful. But the dialog isn't as bad as the explorer itself, once configured. I couldn't copy anything or stuff like that, put navigating to a file works somewhat

But its also funny that you spoke of "search". Since I would never ever use the Windows search crap... Total Commander is just so flexible with that.
But I hear Windows 7 is a least a little better then WinXP at it. I remember that search thing with the dog in XP, maybe used it once in 2002 or so =D (and didn't find anything)

Offline matheus23

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Medals: 114
Projects: 3


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« Reply #58 - Posted 2012-06-17 17:19:37 »

@davedes: booting up? Zero percent of my workflow..likewise connecting to my wirelesss router.  Filesystem?  c:/cygwin/path vs. /path?  I'm highly unlikely to notice.  Screenshots? zero percent. calculator? No..mathematica or scilab.  Notepad?  Nope..emacs.  Un/installing software...I'm not programming at the point.  I'd say that 90% of the time if I'd been programming for say an hour and walk way from my machine.  I wouldn't be able to say what OS I was working under.  There'd have to been a recent "give" of some kind..say using -PrintAssembly = I'm in linux because I can't be bothered to compile up a version for win7.
Here some information/advertising from me for linux:
ThingIn workflow?What I'm using, how it works.
Booting up~ 2 Times a dayMaybe as fast as windows.
FilesystemYes, very muchDirectly Eclipse, or Dolphin, per Alt+F2, really fast
ScreenshotsVery very muchPress "Print" and you get a really hand program, which lets you select rectangles, or select windows, blah blah.
MathNot too muchPress Alt+F2, i.e. write "= 5 + 3", and it will give you 8.
NotepadOf course, very much SmileyKate. Best editor ever. (maybe because I did not use notepad yet Tongue) Got Syntax coloring even for GLSL.
Un/Installing SoftwareCouldn't live without it.Isn't this, what Linux is so famous for? On Archlinux: pacman / yaourt. Both f*king easy to use, if you've got knowledge about how a bash works, I'm using yakuake here. I just have to press F12, and I've got a nice-looking graphical "konsole". F12 to hide again. Will not be shown in my task-bar.

See my:
    My development Blog:     | Or look at my RPG | Or simply my coding
http://matheusdev.tumblr.comRuins of Revenge  |      On Github
Offline Roquen
« Reply #59 - Posted 2012-06-17 19:46:17 »

Things like file system are part of your workflow whether or not you realize it. Even something like File -> Open generally relies on the platform's file browser.
I virtually never do that...when I programming.  Taking my fingers away from the home position on the keyboard is something I really don't do that much.

Quote
You're telling me you never need to open, copy, move, search, preview, etc. files when working on a project?
All the time: emacs & bash cover almost everything.  Say opening a file..very high probability it's in the same directory as the one I'm working in. C-X f type a couple of letters, tab, enter..done.  Or it's nearby directory and about as fast.  I'm already look at the file faster than it would have taken my hand to move from the keyboard to the touchpad or mouse.
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