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  Delivering JRE/Java3D on CD?  (Read 4117 times)
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Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Posted 2002-12-22 07:33:52 »

Hi community!

I'm a software developer - so I'm not very good in understanding license agreements, esp. when not written in German Smiley. So maybe somebody can enlighten me.

I try to deliver a game on CD that needs a jre1.4.1 and Java3 1.3. I assume that both isn't installed on the target machine and that my customers aren't able or willing to install it - neither from installation binaries from the CD nor from the web.

I found that it is technically possible to just copy the bin and lib directories from an installed JRE to a CD and run java.exe from there.

Would this kind of distribution be legal? Or something nearby?

Hope for help,

- J

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 359
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2002-12-22 09:46:17 »

I believe this is not allowed under the Sun license agreement as it's a "partial" distribution Sad I think you might be looking for the "embedded" license, which is where you can ship the pre-installed (and even partial) JRE in amongst your application code.

Which is of course why I've had such trouble fretting over whether to stay with Java as my primary game development language.

Cas Smiley

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2002-12-22 11:05:50 »

Quote
I think you might be looking for the "embedded" license, which is where you can ship the pre-installed (and even partial) JRE in amongst your application code.


Where to look?

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2002-12-22 11:47:03 »

Hm, really tried to read the license agreement and the README file. From what I understand, it's legal to redistribute the lib and bin directories (which basically is the JRE) and you are even allowed to ommit some files as listed in the README.

Same for Java3D, where the list of required files is given...

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 359
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2002-12-22 13:03:40 »

Ah yes, it does seem so, now I've actually read the readme Wink

Shame I can't omit all the files I want to omit. I think that's what the embedded license is about. If you just want to plonk the whole JRE onto the CD it seems you are explicitly allowed to do it! Which is nice.


Cas Smiley

Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


END OF LINE.


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-02-18 21:16:30 »

Cas, you are correct.  As long as you don't modify the distribution beyond what is allowed in the readme, then you can distribute free of charge.

-Chris

Offline Breakfast

Senior Member




for great justice!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-02-22 19:39:46 »

How well does this perform? Is it any different to running it off the hard drive?
Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


END OF LINE.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-02-22 20:03:15 »

Breakfast,

You distribute it on CD so it can be installed on the HD..... Smiley

-SG

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-02-23 07:35:31 »

It can run straight off the CD. Loading times increase significantly though.

It would be great to have a customizable installation so that with the first game a full JRE/Java3D is installed on the machine. Or even an existing one gets update. DirectX works that way, but still could be better.
This would open the way for following games (e.g. web-based). One killer game in Java and Sun wouldn't need to force MS to distribute Java any more on court.

Now, e.g. for a budget game, one cannot expect the player being capable to perform the standard JRE/Java3D installation steps. So the only way is to install the JRE tied with the game. Most tools do it like this (JBuilder, Together, RoboForge....)

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


END OF LINE.


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-02-23 12:39:33 »

Well, it CAN run straight off of the CD but then it is more of an "embedded" implementation than a Java install.  Roboforge, Vampire, Law and Order, etc. all do this.  It is now getting companies to shift from embedding Java (i.e in it's own path for use only by the game) to doing a full install/upgrade as Herk suggests.  And I also agree, that one good, strong killer game could start the ball rolling for massive current Java distribution.

-Chris

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Member




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-02-24 02:33:07 »

Talk to the Limewire folks. They have distributed more Java to the desktop than all other desktop Java applications combined. Funny thing is - people don't even realize they are running Java  Wink

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 359
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-02-24 07:15:22 »

Aren't they wondering where all their RAM went?

Cas  Tongue

Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-02-24 09:08:33 »

Tongue

I have to agree that LimeWire was the killer app of the initial gnutella boom.  If it hadn't started to have problems (legal and technical), LimeWire would still be installed everywhere.  And as a Java tool it was damn impressive!

Interesting to note that the most popular applications on Download.com are usually P2P or IM apps, or compression or Internet tools (firewall, ad blocker etc).  What can Java bring to these areas?  Internet and compression tools generally require too many native hooks for Java to be a contender...

And scarily enough, the number one download (Kazaa Media Desktop) has been downloaded more times than numbers two through thirteen combined.  Now that's a market to get hold of!  Clocks in at under 5MB too, using an initial 160KB download that then obtains the rest.  Nice!

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
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