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  Black Screen of Nothingness, Newbie install  (Read 3313 times)
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Offline cfenton

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2003-11-21 09:43:54 »

Have some Java3d code I would like to try to port to Xith3d.
I would like to run some benchmarks.
I installed as recommended by xith.org
When starting the demos (CubeTest, ...)
I get an empty black screen.

Huh ?

Offline endolf

JGO Coder


Medals: 7


Current project release date: sometime in 3003


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-11-21 10:25:38 »

Hi
 I'm assuming that if xith is failing then there would be some kind of stack trace, somewhere. On the other hand a black screen is strange, it should either be light grey like a normal swing background (meaning xith has failed), or a darker grey, meaning xith has managed to get to GL, but something has gone wrong with the boxes. Either way there should be a stack trace somewhere. How are you launching it, from a dos prompt?.

Another option is that it's a graphics card driver problem, were you running the directX version of java3d?, does the opengl version of java3d work?, do *any* opengl applications work?, what OS are you on?, what graphics card and drivers do you have?

Cheers

Endolf

Offline cfenton

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-11-21 11:30:59 »

Thanks for the response.
Actually I have the same problem both on Linux and win2000

Here is some info from win2000:
Hit SPACE to toggle projection policy, or ESC to exit
Init GL is net.java.games.jogl.impl.windows.WindowsGLImpl
OpenGL Renderer = GLINT R3 PT + GLINT Gamma
OpenGL Version = 1.1.28 PT
OpenGL Vendor = 3Dlabs
OpenGL Extensions = GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_polygon_offset GL_WIN_swap_hint GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_paletted_texture GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette GL_HP_occlusion_test GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_Autodesk_valid_back_buffer_hint GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_separate_specular_color

But no errors.
That is cntrl-C doesn't dump anything

I am starting from a cygwin prompt
java -cp libs/xith3d.jar com.xith3d.test.CubeTest
All opengl applications work
Java3d works just fine

Any clues ?
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline cfenton

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-11-21 11:40:42 »

Linux Redhat 8.0

Starting from a bash shell

starting frame speed test
Init GL is net.java.games.jogl.impl.x11.X11GLImpl
OpenGL Renderer = Mesa DRI Radeon 20010402 AGP 1x x86/MMX/SSE
OpenGL Version = 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
OpenGL Vendor = VA Linux Systems, Inc.
OpenGL Extensions = GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_histogram GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_polygon_offset GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_MESA_window_pos GL_MESA_resize_buffers GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_PGI_misc_hints GL_SGIS_pixel_texture GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp

Once again exits normally  Chris
Offline Jens

Senior Member




Java for games!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-11-21 13:10:23 »

OpenGL 1.2 is required. That's one possible reason why it doesn't run under Windows. Does the app exit automatically under Linux or do you only get a black screen? What is your java version?

Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-11-21 14:29:28 »

I've noticed that OpenGL 1.3 is required, I'm afraid! :-/

In Win2k you're using 1.1, under Linux you've got 1.2.  Is it possible to update your OpenGL drivers?  Maybe there's a more recent version available for your hardware that will give you what's required?

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline Jens

Senior Member




Java for games!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-11-21 14:45:29 »

Quote
I've noticed that OpenGL 1.3 is required, I'm afraid! :-/


Where does Xith3D need OpenGL 1.3?

@cfenton: If you don't need hardware acceleration, you can install a current version of the mesa libs, which support at least OpenGL 1.4.

Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-11-22 08:20:34 »

Quote
Where does Xith3D need OpenGL 1.3?

Every transformation requires a call to glLoadTransposeMatrixf, which was only added in 1.3.  It's easy to fix, though, by pulling the data from the matrix already transposed and call glLoadMatrixf instead - that's what I've done.

I don't know of any other places where >1.2 is used, but I don't deny the possibility.  I also must state that I don't know how JoGL handles OpenGL extensions - might it use the GL_ARB_transpose_matrix extension if it's available?

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline Yuri Vl. Gushchin

Senior Member




Speak Java!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-11-22 12:34:17 »

Quote
It's easy to fix, though, by pulling the data from the matrix already transposed and call glLoadMatrixf instead - that's what I've done.


Do you have a patch that we can apply to Xith3D renderer classes? This is exactly what I was thinking to do, because of this also seems to be a reason for problems with SiS graphic cards. If you have a patch, can you please submit an issue with attachment?

Yuri

Yuri Vl. Gushchin
JProof Group
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-11-22 12:57:11 »

I will add an entension check and the transpose if it is available.  It is more effiecient to use the transpose load because that is the way we store our matrices.  I didn't want to incure the overhead of matrix transpose.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-11-22 13:20:35 »

Yuri, I'm afraid I can't see any way to attach files to issues or submit an attachment at time of report.  Are we talking about the dev.java.net issues page?

Quote
I will add an entension check and the transpose if it is available.  It is more effiecient to use the transpose load because that is the way we store our matrices.  I didn't want to incure the overhead of matrix transpose.


David, in this particular case it'll make no difference either way - the current code is this:

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    public static void setTransform( GL gl, Matrix4f mat ) {

        int i=0;
        trans[i++] = mat.m00;
        trans[i++] = mat.m01;
        trans[i++] = mat.m02;
        trans[i++] = mat.m03;

        trans[i++] = mat.m10;
        trans[i++] = mat.m11;
        trans[i++] = mat.m12;
        trans[i++] = mat.m13;

        trans[i++] = mat.m20;
        trans[i++] = mat.m21;
        trans[i++] = mat.m22;
        trans[i++] = mat.m23;

        trans[i++] = mat.m30;
        trans[i++] = mat.m31;
        trans[i++] = mat.m32;
        trans[i++] = mat.m33;

        gl.glLoadTransposeMatrixf(trans);

    }


So accessing the vertices in a different order and calling the 1.1 method instead should have no performance hit.

N.B. there's another call to glLoadTransposeMatrixf in CanvasPeerImpl.drawObjectShadow(), which is harder to cleanly remove.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-11-22 13:34:50 »

Heh, yeah I saw that as soon as I looked into the problem.  I have checked in a fix to remove the use of loadTransposeMatrix.  Should be all set.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-11-22 13:38:19 »

That reminds me.  I also checked in a feature which should make it easier to diagnose problems. two new options: TRACE and ERROR_CHECK can be activated in code or via -DXITH3D_ERROR_CHECK=TRUE, etc to have the opengl error codes checked on every call. TRACE writes to a debug file every call and its parameters.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline Jens

Senior Member




Java for games!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-11-22 13:47:01 »

Would be nice to be able to specify where TRACE writes the debug file without having to change the Xith3D sourcecode.

Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-11-22 14:07:03 »

Good point.  Thats a bit harder to do with our current Option system though.  I will think it through.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-11-22 17:16:18 »

Quote
Heh, yeah I saw that as soon as I looked into the problem.  I have checked in a fix to remove the use of loadTransposeMatrix.  Should be all set.


Excellent, thanks!

The drawObjectShadow instance can't be fixed in-place so easily.  As Transform3D.get(float[]) basically does the same as the code I quoted above, could I suggest a Transform3D.getTransposed(float[]) method?  This would neatly fix the problem and remove the need for yet another of these blocks in the future as well.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline Yuri Vl. Gushchin

Senior Member




Speak Java!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-11-22 17:50:52 »

David,

Thanks. Great fix. Could be that this will also fix some other compatibility issues I have on my check-list.

cfmdobbie,
Quote
Yuri, I'm afraid I can't see any way to attach files to issues or submit an attachment at time of report.  Are we talking about the dev.java.net issues page?

Yes, we are taliking about Issuezilla on dev.java.net. It should be [hopefully] possible to add an attachment after you submit an issue - just after submitting you get a confirmation page with an option to add an attachment.

Yuri

Yuri Vl. Gushchin
JProof Group
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-11-23 00:41:58 »

good find - SiS support will be nice

Will.


Offline cfenton

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2003-11-23 10:48:51 »

So what is the end result.
Is xith3d dependent on opengl 1.3 ?
Is their an overview of which xith3d graphic card compatibility ?


Thanks for all your help,

Chris  
Offline cfenton

Junior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2003-11-23 11:35:37 »

So what is the final specs ?
Is opengl 1.3 required?

Chris  




Offline Jens

Senior Member




Java for games!


« Reply #20 - Posted 2003-11-23 11:57:05 »

Quote
Good point.  Thats a bit harder to do with our current Option system though.  I will think it through.


That's true. I submitted issue 45, so that it doesn't get lost.

Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #21 - Posted 2003-11-24 00:33:34 »

Quote
So what is the final specs ?
Is opengl 1.3 required?

Chris  



I believe that the official target specification for Xith3D is still OpenGL 1.2.

Currently OpenGL 1.3 is needed but cfmdobbie seems to know how to solve that problem.

Both David and Yuri's responces in this thread seem to indicate their commitment to OpenGL1.2 as the minimum requirement and it seems that 1.2 support is desired by many people including myself.

Will.

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #22 - Posted 2003-11-24 00:35:24 »

Quote


That's true. I submitted issue 45, so that it doesn't get lost.


I have posted my comments regarding the matter (and the RenderOptions) in the Issue.

Will.

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