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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #60 - Posted 2012-01-20 09:10:12 »

@appel - that's still fairly poor justification though, and coming from someone in the industry as you claim, the industry that keeps a roof over your head, it is slightly baffling. Apart from the fact the reason you state you won't pay for HD is because you think it's not worth the money and therefore you are entitled to it for free (surely, as someone in the industry, you must realise the utterly massive cost of upgrading the industry infrastructure to high definition?), what has this got to do with the whole reason for SOPA existing? You're just saying people (you!) pirate because you're too tight to support the infrastructure that delivers what you want to see and too lazy or unwilling to compete and go make it yourselves, and the SOPA act was about saying, no! You people need to support us with some cash and you're not! Well actually it's more about Americans using foreign sources of ripped off content and nothing to do with what happens where you live but there we go.

Cas Smiley

Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #61 - Posted 2012-01-20 09:48:25 »

There was never any claim of Entitled....I don't feel entitled, but that has nothing to do with the end game. The end game is people are not going to wait a year for a tv show when they don't have too. You can argue till your blue in the face. It is the way it works now. So either work with that and stop having netflix give "not in your area" crap, or fight what will be a loosing battle...Law will not change the way thinks work. Bits can and will still be copied. Blu Rays are torrents before they are released despite laws and contracts and encryption.

And where does he say he is to tight to support infrastructure to get it legally? If Hollywood won't give it to you, it doesn't matter what you spend on infrastructure!

I liked one of G+ post today:I don't mind paying artists a fair price for their music. Do the record companies feel the same way?

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #62 - Posted 2012-01-20 11:04:42 »

@appel - that's still fairly poor justification though, and coming from someone in the industry as you claim, the industry that keeps a roof over your head, it is slightly baffling. Apart from the fact the reason you state you won't pay for HD is because you think it's not worth the money and therefore you are entitled to it for free (surely, as someone in the industry, you must realise the utterly massive cost of upgrading the industry infrastructure to high definition?), what has this got to do with the whole reason for SOPA existing? You're just saying people (you!) pirate because you're too tight to support the infrastructure that delivers what you want to see and too lazy or unwilling to compete and go make it yourselves, and the SOPA act was about saying, no! You people need to support us with some cash and you're not! Well actually it's more about Americans using foreign sources of ripped off content and nothing to do with what happens where you live but there we go.

Cas Smiley

It's somewhat ridiculous that the consumer must challenge Hollywood in order to be able to purchase their products. It's not like production of iPhones, which is limited by finite resources, factory output, workers, cost per item, etc. Movies, TV shows, can be distributed for free in virtually unlimited copies. Yet, access to purchase iPhones seems to be better than access to purchase movies or tv shows. Crazy huh? Smiley

As far as infrastructure investment goes... there has always been infrastructure cost, just maintaining equipment and stuff. Just like you renew your computer every few years, it becomes more capable. Same goes for Hollywood equipment. Hollywood has had to upgrade their equipments every few years, nothing new there, from silent movies to movies with sound, from black/white to color, from color to true color, from that to all sorts of other new breakthroughs in not only old style filming but digital also, such as CG effects. To say that you have to pay 2x the price for HD than for SD is somewhat nuts, because the SD movie is from the same source, just in crappier quality. Besides, I don't think you had to pay extra to see movies in color than in black/white, it was just a natural transition.

Our infrastructure has been capable of delivering HD content, both broadcast HD and VOD HD, almost since the day we launched this service about 7-8 years ago. Yet, the HD movies and shows we have in our catalog are all Icelandic of origin, and they don't get any purchases because the content owner wants to charge obnoxious amounts extra for it. So, here we are, with our fancy system, just waiting for the time the content owners actually want to sell their product and not control when and where the consumers watch it.

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #63 - Posted 2012-01-20 13:58:49 »

There you go again with the entitlement and tightness. You're really not making your position look very good at all.

Cas Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #64 - Posted 2012-01-20 14:37:27 »

There you go again with the entitlement and tightness. You're really not making your position look very good at all.

Cas Smiley
Well, if you were only to sell your games to UK audience, would you be surprised if people elsewhere had to resort to piracy?

Take a TV show like Dexter as an example. It's only aired on American HBO, which I cannot subscribe to for obvious reasons. A year later I can watch it here in Iceland in SD quality, at a time not of my choosing, and I'd be forced to purchase subscription to a channel I'm not interested in. This business model is dead, and is as equivalent to me, and anyone else, as the example above about your games only being sold in the UK. Sure, I can watch it legally, but at what cost? I'd rather watch it the day after it airs in America, in HD, at a time and convenience of my choosing.

We introduced couple a years ago the ability for our customers to view 2 of the most recent episodes of a TV show of the network they were subscribed to. Our VOD usage multiplied because of it. That tells me people want convenience.

Call it a "entitlement" complaint if you like, but it doesn't change the reality and reasons for piracy.


And what SOPA does doesn't only affect Americans, it affects the whole internet because in case you didn't know already America is a large part of the internet, and controls ICANN, and any regulations approved in America over the internet will give other governments ideas. So, instead of America becoming a beacon of freedom and expression, it becomes an beacon of censorship and oppression. Not quite the role the founders of America envisioned. There are ways to address piracy, one is with brute-force crackdown on people and technologies, the other is making piracy obsolete by giving people what they want legally.

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Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #65 - Posted 2012-01-20 17:30:27 »


 Cheesy  Pointing
 Huh

Look up.  Is joke flying over head.   

 Wink
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #66 - Posted 2012-01-20 19:38:10 »

America already is a beacon of oppression!

Anyway: there's no arguing with you chaps on this matter so I'll just stop. And for that matter stop making single-player games (yes, that's exactly what we're doing). I just wonder what exactly television and film producers are going to do. Well, we already know they're trying various gimmicks like 3D and endless reality shows (the content of which is virtually worthless shortly after airing anyway).

Cas Smiley

Offline BoBear2681

JGO Coder


Medals: 19



« Reply #67 - Posted 2012-01-20 19:44:50 »

I see appel's point.  When I was in college, illegally downloading music was rampant.  Kids were downloading literally thousands of songs from Napster/Kazaa/campus network/wherever for free.  I honestly thought people our age would never *purchase* music again.  How'd they turn this around?  Mostly because Steve Jobs made an easy, convenient, and "cool" to download music legally.  Instead of shady file sharing sites, you could get the latest Britney Spears single from the nice and shiny iTunes, and for a decent price*.  In short - folks started realizing the need to embrace the changing market.

So why not do the same for TV/movies?  Making something digitally available in the US (or any market) but not in others is crazy.  Why do this?  If there's no technological barrier?  If folks in other countries are willing to pay for it, why not give it to them?  Folks don't want to watch a TV show a year or two after it's popular, they want to watch it when it's new.  And giving it to them will make you more money.

While this surely won't solve piracy entirely, or even remove the need to combat it, I'm sure it would greatly reduce the amount of money the entertainment industry loses due to it.

* Debatable.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 830
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #68 - Posted 2012-01-20 19:46:24 »

For me the main problem with SOPA / PIPA is that the entertainment industry would be allowed to take down sites without a court order.

This approaches 'absolute power' and will eventually be abused.

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Offline StonePickaxes

JGO Coder


Medals: 4
Projects: 2


Nathan Kramber


« Reply #69 - Posted 2012-01-20 19:49:13 »

For me the main problem with SOPA / PIPA is that the entertainment industry would be allowed to take down sites without a court order.

This approaches 'absolute power' and will eventually be abused.

I agree. The blatant "shoot first, think later" policies are disgusting.

This video has helped me explain to a lot of people the dangers of SOPA and PIPA.

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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 830
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #70 - Posted 2012-01-20 19:53:22 »

"Congress puts brakes on anti-piracy bills"

Quote
(Reuters) - Lawmakers stopped anti-piracy legislation in its tracks on Friday, delivering a stunning win for Internet companies that staged an unprecedented online protest this week to kill the previously fast-moving bills.]
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-usa-congress-internet-idUSTRE80J10X20120120


It will be a matter of time before the next, barely better designed bill pops up... we'll see.


Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #71 - Posted 2012-01-20 20:01:11 »

This approaches 'absolute power' and will eventually be abused.

Far as the DMCA goes, it already has been.  Companies routinely throw out takedowns in fully-automated fashion, based on the scantest of keyword searches, and never face a penalty for the frivolous filings.  The law only applies to little people.

Jolly good luck selling your indie game when your word-of-mouth channels are taken down due to a member, or just anyone else on the host, linking to content the industry doesn't like.
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #72 - Posted 2012-01-20 21:33:21 »

Sad as it is to say, but these days the money's all in Steam. Indie doesn't really come into it any more. Well, not much.

Cas Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #73 - Posted 2012-01-20 22:21:19 »

The sad day is when all of our freedoms vanish in the name of security for a few.  Roll Eyes

But I fear that only the inevitable has been delayed. It's clear that the mindset in Congress is steered towards this direction. Maybe in couple of years they will attempt it again, and it will be called something else, like "Internet Freedom Act" - reminiscent of 1984's Doublespeak. I do feel like I'm living in a The Onion satire news story.

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #74 - Posted 2012-01-20 22:32:51 »

Thing is SOPA was basically unnecessary anyway. Megaupload - bang. Napster - bang. That video upload woman, wotsername, just got a couple in chokey recently - bang. They all get it in the end. The laws are all entirely adequate really, the problem is the will to actually bother taking action and enforcing them is not consistently or regularly applied.

Cas Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #75 - Posted 2012-01-20 23:02:24 »

Thing is SOPA was basically unnecessary anyway. Megaupload - bang. Napster - bang. That video upload woman, wotsername, just got a couple in chokey recently - bang. They all get it in the end. The laws are all entirely adequate really, the problem is the will to actually bother taking action and enforcing them is not consistently or regularly applied.

Cas Smiley
Absolutely true.

It's like with other crimes, like murder or robberies. SOPA is equivalent of calling out the army and imposing martial law and 24/7 curfews to stop those kind of crimes.

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #76 - Posted 2012-01-20 23:13:31 »

But just as I completely understand why you pirate stuff - you do understand why SOPA was conceived, and why it will keep on being reconceived every year in slightly different forms until it finally gets passed?

Cas Smiley

Offline sproingie

JGO Kernel


Medals: 202



« Reply #77 - Posted 2012-01-20 23:36:54 »

But just as I completely understand why you pirate stuff - you do understand why SOPA was conceived, and why it will keep on being reconceived every year in slightly different forms until it finally gets passed?

Of course I do, and it won't stop until we have to pay these people a license to get on the internet.  More if we want to actually publish anything.
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #78 - Posted 2012-01-20 23:37:08 »

But just as I completely understand why you pirate stuff - you do understand why SOPA was conceived, and why it will keep on being reconceived every year in slightly different forms until it finally gets passed?

Cas Smiley
Did I ever say I pirate stuff? Not something I can be caught doing, and a quick look over the software I use it's all legal, even Photoshop, and all the games I have installed they're all legal. Don't misinterpret my reasoning as an excuse for myself to pirate.

But I would be lying if I said I hadn't used illegal software in the past or ever pirated, but funny thing is I haven't even thought much about this in recent years, because it seems free and good software is everywhere. Also I wouldn't touch pirated software with a stick because of all the viruses, backdoors, bots and stuff.
Back in the days when MP3 was new and fresh (Pentium 1-2) I used to download loads of MP3 songs, probably a few gigs worth! I don't have any MP3 songs today, I just listen to legal streams of music, much more convenient than trying to chase down some albums or songs you get bored with in a week anyway.

So, how does one move from pirating to not-pirating? I think it's a maturing process, both for the individual and the copyright owner. Legal online music is everywhere now, why bother pirating it? Legal and free software is everywhere online, why bother pirating? Movies and TV shows next?

My stance is: Make piracy obsolete.


And I understand why SOPA was conceived, and it has nothing to do with protecting your rights as a "intellectual property owner", because there are laws already ensuring that, laws that are not enforced. You think a little indie game dev will be protected by SOPA? You must be kidding me. SOPA is a lobbied legislation, it comes straight from Hollywood lobbyists, and what SOPA will do is give Hollywood ability to claim tens of billions in damages from the big internet companies. It's all about money. And look for those congressmen and senators to retire into a comfortable high paying job within the Hollywood industry as consultants once that sort of bill passes.

But it's funny, I thought the role of government was to preserve our freedoms, at least that's what the U.S. constitution is all about and that's what all those in Congress swore to protect. It looks like they're ready to stab us all in the back when we're not looking, so I guess we must keep looking.

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 421
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #79 - Posted 2012-01-20 23:42:41 »

Goodness no, Government isn't there for that! That would be super naive. Government is first and foremost self-serving and self-perpetuating. Everything else they do follows from that.

Cas Smiley

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