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  Windows 8  (Read 10091 times)
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Offline gouessej
« Reply #30 - Posted 2011-09-21 11:03:14 »

IE 10 on Windows 8 in Metro mode won't support plug-ins:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/14/metro-style-browsing-and-plug-in-free-html5.aspx

The most interesting thing to come out of MS for 5 years? Really? I don't think so.
Ok I quote myself...

Do programmers here realize that it means no Java support in Metro style?

Offline princec

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« Reply #31 - Posted 2011-09-21 11:25:08 »

Yeah, but that is a bit of a lost cause as it is. Just another app store, another barrier to entry on the platform. The decision to lock it down is probably very unwise.

Cas Smiley

Offline nsigma
« Reply #32 - Posted 2011-09-21 11:28:43 »

Linux annoys me even more than the other two.

While I wouldn't even think of trying to convince you otherwise  Tongue , I'd recommend Linux Mint for any XP ex-pats.  I've used primarily Linux for 5 years now, before which I had a couple of XP machines for a similar period.  Admittedly my XP machines were heavily tuned for pro-audio (so snappy), but when I got a new laptop with Windows 7 last year my only thoughts were - what the hell have they done???  It's horrible!  How have they made it sooo slow?  The speed difference between the two OS's on the same hardware is ridiculous.  I never found that with XP <> Linux, I used whatever made sense for the job - now I steer clear of Win 7 like the plague.

Of course I could try tuning it again, but I shouldn't have to (and I can't be bothered waiting for the damn thing to boot most of the time!  Grin )

or the useless waste of space that is the dock,

Actually, that's the one thing I always add in to my Linux setup, but then that comes from growing up with the best desktop there ever was - RiscOS - when OSX was just a twinkle in Steve Job's butt-cheek!  IMO most OS's are still playing catch-up to features RiscOS had in the early 90's.

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Offline JL235

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« Reply #33 - Posted 2011-09-21 11:56:47 »

IE 10 on Windows 8 in Metro mode won't support plug-ins:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/14/metro-style-browsing-and-plug-in-free-html5.aspx

The most interesting thing to come out of MS for 5 years? Really? I don't think so.
Ok I quote myself...

Do programmers here realize that it means no Java support in Metro style?
Metro apps can be built using HTML, and the main aspect which is blocked is the ability to embed Flash/Java/Silverlight objects in that HTML. I wouldn't run to open an application which then opens up lots of plugins, so I'm pretty happy it's blocked from Metro apps. So the only real place that is affected is in Metro IE, since that can't be used to play a Java game (regular IE 10 is unaffected). But remember that the people using Metro and Metro IE will be on a tablet, so a Java applet would suck even more then it does today.

In theory, I see no reason why a full JVM couldn't be compiled into a Metro app, and have the Java class files bundled with it when distributes, since you can build Metro apps using C/C++. The main issue is that AWT wouldn't work, as it uses Win32, and I believe WinRT is significantly different at handling user interaction. I'd expect there are also other system bits where the API has changed.

You can also distribute regular applications through the Windows Store, including Java applications. It is not exclusive to Metro.

Offline princec

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« Reply #34 - Posted 2011-09-21 12:17:21 »

AWT not working not much of a problem for LWJGL Wink I bet a WinRT backend is trivial to add.

Cas Smiley

Offline pjt33
« Reply #35 - Posted 2011-09-21 20:02:04 »

The implications for locked-down boot options are more worrying to me than anything else.
Offline princec

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« Reply #36 - Posted 2011-09-21 22:53:41 »

Good thing that's not directly related to Windows 8. I have a feeling it'll get shot down in flames anyway - definitely some suspicious antitrust like behaviour there. I can't quite fathom how anybody could think that this specification would be in consumers' interests.
<edit>Hm maybe it is directly related to Windows 8. Still, as long as the BIOS implementers provide a switch to turn it off it's not too much of a problem.

Cas Smiley

Offline aazimon
« Reply #37 - Posted 2011-09-21 22:56:04 »

I just watch a news article, that most consumers are moving to tablets and smart phones, and Windows 8 won't be that big. That's why Windows 8 is being set to run on a tablet better.
Offline ra4king

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« Reply #38 - Posted 2011-09-22 01:10:33 »

I never understood and liked tablets. What's so special about them? Keyboard and mouse will always be the best way to use a computer.

Offline theagentd
« Reply #39 - Posted 2011-09-22 04:18:29 »

I never understood and liked tablets. What's so special about them? Keyboard and mouse will always be the best way to use a computer.
+1
Nothing is gonna beat my WASD+mouse! Console joysticks are for flight simulators! Touchscreens are for perverted Japansese people!

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Offline JL235

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« Reply #40 - Posted 2011-09-22 06:33:28 »

I never understood and liked tablets. What's so special about them? Keyboard and mouse will always be the best way to use a computer.
You can't really use a mouse and keyboard at the dinner table. I mean you could, but not having a lid or needing to put it on a surface makes tablets much more natural to use.

Offline namrog84

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« Reply #41 - Posted 2011-09-22 06:44:06 »

for creation / creativity:  tablets and smart phones are definitely not the way to go

for pure light/medium consumer consumption, tablets or smartphones are wonderful and conveniently portable.
The typical person usually falls into this category the majority of time


none of them truly eliminate or replace each other for they all have their own niche and place, with some minor overlap

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Offline theagentd
« Reply #42 - Posted 2011-09-22 09:05:12 »

I never understood and liked tablets. What's so special about them? Keyboard and mouse will always be the best way to use a computer.
You can't really use a mouse and keyboard at the dinner table. I mean you could, but not having a lid or needing to put it on a surface makes tablets much more natural to use.
Why do people use this argument? You're EATING, why would you need a tablet during that time? It even gets really disgusting after a while if you use it with fatty fingers. You might even spill something on it. So many people seem to want one just for this. I don't get it.

Myomyomyo.
Offline JL235

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« Reply #43 - Posted 2011-09-22 09:37:13 »

I never understood and liked tablets. What's so special about them? Keyboard and mouse will always be the best way to use a computer.
You can't really use a mouse and keyboard at the dinner table. I mean you could, but not having a lid or needing to put it on a surface makes tablets much more natural to use.
Why do people use this argument? You're EATING, why would you need a tablet during that time? It even gets really disgusting after a while if you use it with fatty fingers. You might even spill something on it. So many people seem to want one just for this. I don't get it.
Good thing I don't have fatty fingers.

I usually always eat dinner with family, so there are lots of times when I'm having to wait, need to look something as a part of a conversation, or I'm still at the table long after dinner has finished. For those times having a PC to hand is useful.

Offline ra4king

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« Reply #44 - Posted 2011-09-22 11:10:29 »

Yeah......tablet during dinner.......what has this world gone to!

Offline Roquen
« Reply #45 - Posted 2011-09-22 11:27:38 »

Formal meals here tend to be very long with tons of conversation.  I frequently pull out my phone to check some fact or other.  In the past I've had an old notebook set up in the kitchen for my recipes..a tablet would be much better.  All of this is niche, but most computer users are casual.
Offline princec

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« Reply #46 - Posted 2011-09-22 11:49:56 »

I use my new iPad2 all the time since I got it a few weeks ago. It's just wonderful. (I've never owned a smartphone). I read the interwebs in bed. I can just whip it out in the kitchen to get a recipe up on the screen. Even my mum figured out how to use it without any help whatsoever. The best bit though, is though it cost a small fortune, it's probably the best toy Seren (my 2yr old) has ever had. She wants to play on it all the time, and it absorbs her for hours! I'm hoping it won't turn her into a video game junkie but instead might teach her how to read sooner rather than later. She likes drawing on it too.

I was a tablet sceptic - no more! I am even rolling up my sleeves to get to grips with C++ now as I'm getting more determined to write some games for it.

Cas Smiley

Offline ra4king

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« Reply #47 - Posted 2011-09-22 12:19:22 »

Oh well there's a nice success story Smiley

Offline JL235

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« Reply #48 - Posted 2011-09-22 14:43:17 »

All of this is niche, but most computer users are casual.
This pretty much sums up my examples. It's not that I desperately want to be able to use a tablet whilst eating, it's more that if I wanted to use a PC for just 30 seconds, I should be able to.

Tablets open up thousands of one-off niche examples where they can be used.

Offline theagentd
« Reply #49 - Posted 2011-09-22 20:57:05 »

"Oh, no! <That plane is on fire|I forgot to buy milk|Something random bad happened>!"
"Ah! What in the world do we do?!"
"FEAR NOT LOWLY COMMONERS, FOR I HAVE A TABLET..."

Uh. I don't like tablets. They are like a fusion of laptops and smartphones, and for me they can't even fill in any of those two roles. I'd rather have a dumb phone, a PSP and a PC/Laptop, not one insanely expensive tablet that's worse at communication, gaming and programming.

I don't wish to start a flame war though. If tablets are the best thing that happened to you since toasted bread, please ignore me.

Myomyomyo.
Offline ra4king

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« Reply #50 - Posted 2011-09-22 22:26:37 »

If tablets are the best thing that happened to you since toasted bread, please ignore me.
I do believe it's sliced bread Wink

Offline theagentd
« Reply #51 - Posted 2011-09-22 22:53:33 »

If tablets are the best thing that happened to you since toasted bread, please ignore me.
I do believe it's sliced bread Wink
I always say toasted bread. I mean, cutting something up with knife isn't as ingenious as burning it in a toaster.

Myomyomyo.
Offline princec

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« Reply #52 - Posted 2011-09-22 23:52:31 »

Yes but cutting it into 28 identical slices is quite an achievement Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline gouessej
« Reply #53 - Posted 2011-09-23 00:22:36 »

Yes but cutting it into 28 identical slices is quite an achievement Smiley

Cas Smiley
Please cut Microsoft into 28 slices and throw them into your trash bin.

More seriously, I'm really worried by the UEFI and the secure boot which would prevent the installation of any other OS on a lot of consumer machines. I know that a lot of people here don't mind but this thing looks like a piece of Palladium / "trusted" computing. Bootkits and rootkits are only excuses to provide this bad solution.

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Online Riven
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« Reply #54 - Posted 2011-09-23 01:35:08 »

I'm really worried by the UEFI and the secure boot which would prevent the installation of any other OS
Microsoft will never get away with this. Market regulators will issue extraordinary high fines for such activities.

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Offline sproingie

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« Reply #55 - Posted 2011-09-23 02:54:41 »

Microsoft simply hasn't the leverage anymore to force all OEMs to use the secure boot path, governments or no.  What this does allow is for said OEMs to enable said path and lock down the device.  And you know what, there are circumstances where I think that's a good idea.  Not for general purpose consumer devices, but for industrial control panels or patient chart tablets carried by hospital staff, you betcha.
Offline JL235

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« Reply #56 - Posted 2011-09-23 05:55:20 »

Yes but cutting it into 28 identical slices is quite an achievement Smiley

Cas Smiley
Please cut Microsoft into 28 slices and throw them into your trash bin.

More seriously, I'm really worried by the UEFI and the secure boot which would prevent the installation of any other OS on a lot of consumer machines. I know that a lot of people here don't mind but this thing looks like a piece of Palladium / "trusted" computing. Bootkits and rootkits are only excuses to provide this bad solution.
It's probably done for Enterprise customers. They would want to be able to lock down the machine as much as possible, and make it difficult/annoying to steal. For them, this makes perfect sense.

I do not believe this will make it onto consumer machines. It is too big of a restriction. They also wouldn't have a beautiful new boot loader if they were planning to prevent installing other OS's.

Offline theagentd
« Reply #57 - Posted 2011-09-23 08:46:36 »

Yes but cutting it into 28 identical slices is quite an achievement Smiley

Cas Smiley
Please cut Microsoft into 28 slices and throw them into your trash bin.

More seriously, I'm really worried by the UEFI and the secure boot which would prevent the installation of any other OS on a lot of consumer machines. I know that a lot of people here don't mind but this thing looks like a piece of Palladium / "trusted" computing. Bootkits and rootkits are only excuses to provide this bad solution.
It's probably done for Enterprise customers. They would want to be able to lock down the machine as much as possible, and make it difficult/annoying to steal. For them, this makes perfect sense.

I do not believe this will make it onto consumer machines. It is too big of a restriction. They also wouldn't have a beautiful new boot loader if they were planning to prevent installing other OS's.
Haha! It does make sense!
"We have a beautiful new boot loader! Nothing works on it!"

Myomyomyo.
Offline kappa
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« Reply #58 - Posted 2011-09-23 12:07:12 »

Microsoft simply hasn't the leverage anymore to force all OEMs to use the secure boot path, governments or no.
MS have been known to use their special discounts to force the big OEMs to do what they want, if they don't they simply don't get the special discounts and are sold windows at the normal OEM prices. OEMs can't afford to risk this as it raises computer prices and ability to complete in an already crowded market. The guise of security here is genius though as it puts the burden on the OEM to make the decision and MS can just play the security card if anyone points a finger at them.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #59 - Posted 2011-09-23 12:54:48 »

I do not believe this will make it onto consumer machines. It is too big of a restriction. They also wouldn't have a beautiful new boot loader if they were planning to prevent installing other OS's.
If nobody complains about it, nothing will prevent Microsoft from doing it. Most consumers don't even know what an OS is Sad

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