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  Rock stars, banning and cleaning up messages...  (Read 8168 times)
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Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Posted 2011-09-06 22:35:58 »

Quote from: teletubo
(other messages removed for the sake of cleanness)
DONT. EVER. DELETE. MY. MESSAGES!

Quote from: teletubo
Last chance was wasted  Sad
I didn't see, what his last post was, but it was fun til someone dig out his marshall personality...

Quote from: teletubo
You still have a chance to begin a new life with a new identity of a sane person . Just don't give us hints it's you, then we're fine .
This sentence makes me so sad, I can't even find words for it.

On a side note, I want teletubo to be banned because of his avatar picture. It's way too offensive, and don't come with the argument, that it's satirical, comical or funny. And no, I won't relax until you have an avatar worth a sane person...

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline Cero
« Reply #1 - Posted 2011-09-06 23:38:14 »

Quote from: teletubo
Last chance was wasted  Sad
I didn't see, what his last post was, but it was fun til someone dig out his marshall personality...

Only thing I was thinking the whole time was "when is he getting banned already?"
So I'm glad =P

...his avatar picture. It's way too offensive, and don't come with the argument, that it's satirical, comical or funny. ...
Can't really disagree...
But it doesn't bother me personally

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #2 - Posted 2011-09-07 00:22:17 »

>This sentence makes me so sad [...]

Me too. There are spaces in front of every period. Horrible. Why would anyone do that?

>I want teletubo to be banned because of his avatar picture. It's way too offensive [...]

Seriously?

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #3 - Posted 2011-09-07 00:58:53 »

Seeing as how we couldn't see his last posts that triggered the ban, we can't really know if he deserved it or if the messages were really worth deleting.  That being said, there have been a number of his posts that I found to be inappropriate or combative, and I've even posted telling him to stop before.

So I do not disagree with the ban, although it's a little sad that it has finally happened in this amazing community.

Quote
I didn't see, what his last post was, but it was fun til someone dig out his marshall personality...

His first posting about being a rock star was all "fun" until he was antagonized, although it was borderline NSFW and I was concerned that the images might have gotten worse.  I honestly had a hard enough time understanding his English that his words weren't much of an issue for me, although his posts often felt aggressive or insulting.

Either way, even if it was in Miscellaneous Topics, I expect those posts to still be relative to our collective interests even if not about Java game development, so giving him a warning (which happened in a perfectly reasonable way) was appropriate.

It seems like his subsequent actions were worthy of a ban.  I might suggest that we restrict our deletion of posts to spam so that the community can bear some witness to why a ban may take place, but I can also tolerate deleting someone's post if they are extremely offensive and received a ban because of it.

This got longer than I expected, but I support teletubo's decision if not his implementation, and even that I'm mostly okay with.

Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 4
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #4 - Posted 2011-09-07 01:00:37 »

DONT. EVER. DELETE. MY. MESSAGES!
I apologize for that . It won't happen again .

Quote
Quote from: teletubo
You still have a chance to begin a new life with a new identity of a sane person . Just don't give us hints it's you, then we're fine .
This sentence makes me so sad, I can't even find words for it.
I was being ironic since the first post I advised him to chill out a little, this one included . I was just trying to say he's still welcome but behave .

Just for the record, Eli was also against it, but Riven was also in favor of it . This is some excerpet from our private messages :
Should he only have a temporary ban instead of a permanent one?
(And as commented, I did not ban his IP, he can just register again if he values JGO as a serious forum)
As this was spiraling out of control (slowly but steadily) I back the decision to ban hom from his account.

Quote
On a side note, I want teletubo to be banned because of his avatar picture. It's way too offensive, and don't come with the argument, that it's satirical, comical or funny. And no, I won't relax until you have an avatar worth a sane person...
can you please tell me what is offensive about a picture of the 4 years old me with MJ behind ? If you really find it offensive, I will change it .

>This sentence makes me so sad [...]
Me too. There are spaces in front of every period. Horrible. Why would anyone do that?
This is a terrible habit I have, but blame Microsoft . In the beginning of nineties, when Word was still not very well developed, there was this ortographic corrector, and it did not recognize the words if I typed, for exemple " mustard. " . It would warn me that the word "mustard." does not exist and suggested me to replace for "mustard" . So, to avoid this annoying feature, I inserted a blank space before every period so it does not bother me .
I promise this is my last post with spaces before periods . Period .  

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 356
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2011-09-07 02:34:41 »

Teletubo's avatar offensive? I've always found it hilarious! Get it?
Cause MJ was accused of being a pedophile and he's staring at a little kid? Anyone? just me? Sad

@Teletubo
Who's the little kid in the picture?

Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #6 - Posted 2011-09-07 08:05:51 »

Seeing as how we couldn't see his last posts that triggered the ban, we can't really know if he deserved it or if the messages were really worth deleting.  That being said, there have been a number of his posts that I found to be inappropriate or combative, and I've even posted telling him to stop before.

Actually I found his posts mostly comical and have a hard time to understand, what makes grown ups bother so much, that they want to stop this kind of "trash creativity". He didn't troll, did not hijack threads, did not spam, his posts and pictures were moderately explicit at most, so just being a bit weird IMHO isn't enough to ban someone... (as I said, it rather makes me sad)


Actually deletion of messages should be a no-no (spam excluded), to let the cummunity follow what's going on. Freedom of speech and opinion should be highest prio on any internet forum. Locking threads to make them less visible or editing messages to include spoiler tags is OK, deletion IMHO not.

Quote
Quote from: teletubo
You still have a chance to begin a new life with a new identity of a sane person . Just don't give us hints it's you, then we're fine .
This sentence makes me so sad, I can't even find words for it.
I was being ironic since the first post I advised him to chill out a little, this one included . I was just trying to say he's still welcome but behave .
Maybe, but it sounds an awful lot like "don't be you - be what the society expects you to be" and that gives me the creeps.

Just for the record, Eli was also against it, but Riven was also in favor of it . This is some excerpet from our private messages :
Should he only have a temporary ban instead of a permanent one?
(And as commented, I did not ban his IP, he can just register again if he values JGO as a serious forum)
As this was spiraling out of control (slowly but steadily) I back the decision to ban hom from his account.
I am aware that a lot of people may support this decision, I simply disagree. Don't take this personally.

Quote
On a side note, I want teletubo to be banned because of his avatar picture. It's way too offensive, and don't come with the argument, that it's satirical, comical or funny. And no, I won't relax until you have an avatar worth a sane person...
can you please tell me what is offensive about a picture of the 4 years old me with MJ behind ? If you really find it offensive, I will change it .
Actually I think your avatar is quite funny and don't want you to change it, but since it references the "rumours" of MJ abusing little boys, it touches some serious topics like child abuse, principle of "innocent til proven otherwise" and even libel (since he got acquitted), implying the question if it is more apropriate than a picture of a sexy girl biting her thumb and some nonsense statements about oral sex.

In requesting a ban, I tried to be cynical to point out the "where do you draw the line" aspect of this matter. But seemingly nobody got it  Undecided

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 429
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2011-09-07 08:36:09 »

Never noticed anything banworthy of anyone on JGO ever. And I check the board about 50x a day.

The image of Michael Jackson is not offensive however you might like to take its intent of meaning. Which is part of why it's clever.

Cas Smiley

Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #8 - Posted 2011-09-07 08:37:46 »

The image of Michael Jackson is not offensive however you might like to take its intent of meaning. Which is part of why it's clever.
And why I like it...

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 211
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #9 - Posted 2011-09-07 08:44:56 »

I think Cas's Avatar image needs banning. It's just scary, even if it is him.

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline aazimon
« Reply #10 - Posted 2011-09-07 14:07:54 »

I think Cas's Avatar image needs banning. It's just scary, even if it is him.

Kev
That's Cas? I thought it was a girl. Maybe it's the quality of the image.
 Smiley
Offline gouessej
« Reply #11 - Posted 2011-09-07 14:25:43 »

Actually deletion of messages should be a no-no (spam excluded), to let the cummunity follow what's going on. Freedom of speech and opinion should be highest prio on any internet forum. Locking threads to make them less visible or editing messages to include spoiler tags is OK, deletion IMHO not.
Freedom of speech has existed in a certain frame, it does not mean that doing what is necessary to encourage people to respect this frame goes against freedom of speech. Defamatory and abusive contents should be deleted especially when they represent a public offense to a physical person in my humble opinion.

Could someone explain to me what it is wrong with teletubo? I don't understand this situation.

Offline Cero
« Reply #12 - Posted 2011-09-07 14:41:34 »

Could someone explain to me what it is wrong with teletubo? I don't understand this situation.

He is a mod and was doing his job. As this is seldom ssen on jgo, some people couldn't handle it. IMHO...

Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #13 - Posted 2011-09-07 14:47:44 »

I simply think, banning m77 was way overreacted. I felt he brought some color in here with his personality... Nobody did ban Julien for example  Tongue

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline Mike

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 86
Projects: 1
Exp: 6 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #14 - Posted 2011-09-07 15:07:35 »

I simply think, banning m77 was way overreacted. I felt he brought some color in here with his personality... Nobody did ban Julien for example  Tongue

In my opinion he used to be a colorful fella but his threads were not going in the right direction. The last few posts of his last thread were so far from what JGO stands for and what I think is suitable to put on the forum that I agree on removing the thread. On the other hand I think a warning would have been enough instead of a ban (I know he can recreate so it is kind of like a warning, but still).

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 4
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #15 - Posted 2011-09-07 15:10:35 »

The content of the las post was some image featuring Dustin Hoffman and some random text (which I don't remember if it featured oral sex or not).
I did not decide to ban because of the content itself, but because, in my opinion, of his behavior .

First topic was locked by Eli, with very clear reason of why .
Then he started again, with the same kind of messages. It is clear, for me that he ignored what was asked of him, and locked the new topic, with a warning not to do it again, or else be banned .

In the last polemic topic, he did again.
In my judgment, if he really felt that the lockings were wrong and he had the right to post random images and thoughts, I think he would have opened a new topic to question the lockings, not open a 3rd new topic with the same thing that caused them to be locked.

So I don't think he was caught in surprise, or he was poorly warned . In my opinion, he "asked for it". And that's why I did it.

I do agree now that it was a bad decision to delete his last topic. I will not do it again.

I don't expect everybody to agree with the ban, but well, I just hope we don't have any reasons to argue about bans anytime soon.


On a side note, when I first read the posts about this, I thought "Oh AGAIN one of those < you > pranks !". Just after reading it carefully I realized it was really directed to me .  

Offline Mike

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 86
Projects: 1
Exp: 6 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #16 - Posted 2011-09-07 15:32:39 »

Thanks for the explanation, I only knew about first thread so getting the details definitely puts me on the side of "banning sounds like a good idea" Wink

How's it going with removing the spaces before the punctuations teletubo? Half way there ;-)

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline Sinuath

Junior Devvie


Medals: 2



« Reply #17 - Posted 2011-09-07 15:36:31 »

He didn't seem like a bad guy, but i get the feeling he was a troll, or he just wasn't all there. I catch people who act like him on forums for years, and i never quite understood it.. i think they're serious...

Anyway i don't think there's anything wrong with your avatar teletubo. I don't see how a picture of a real life person who's just standing there could be considered offensive.  it's not even implying anything, MJ was around kids all the time, he had a theme park right? Anything anyone gets out of it is their own imagination.

Hey [you][/you], you should totally check out my boring Site ~ http://davediel.com/chris
Offline Cero
« Reply #18 - Posted 2011-09-07 16:31:22 »

just watch all of m77's posts >80% is spam or garbage
apart from terrible English, which wouldn't even make any sense if you would be able to read it, since it sound from someone who is constantly stoned.

or coud I just writ lik dis all teh time and u would nvr get annoyd, or wat
also not havin any information in ma posts, aside frm teh fact tat I need oral sex reel bad.

Offline OverKill

Junior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2011-09-08 06:47:12 »

@Cero:
The 'poor english' I have also seen from many people from/around India. Dunno why they like to write like that, they just do.

@Avatar:
I also find no issues with teletubo's avatar. I have seen (and had) worse.

All in all, the Mods doing their job, which they do great imho!
Offline SimonH
« Reply #20 - Posted 2011-09-08 13:58:43 »

All in all, the Mods doing their job, which they do great imho!
+1

People make games and games make people
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #21 - Posted 2011-09-08 14:41:08 »

Just my 2 cents.

I support teletubo's decision because he did it rationally and without any malice or personal vendetta. I may have done things a bit different personally (as teletubo showed with the personal message excerpts) but the point of having multiple mods is to get multiple perspectives. I originally closed his thread because he started getting too close to NSFW and sexual posts, in my opinion, which are in fact ban-worthy. Since he was warned 3 times in a matter of minutes to stay away from those sorts of posts and blatantly ignored the warnings, he was banned. The whole situation, while not necessarily clear to many of you who didn't see the context, was clear enough to him that he knew what he was doing. He was testing the waters, prodding at the mods to see if they would really do something. Nobody has any reason to worry unless they repeatedly ignore a warning - and you'll know when you've done it.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #22 - Posted 2011-09-08 15:05:39 »

The main reason for my complaint was, that the ban was not comprehensible from the content still online AND that messages like mine were deleted also.

Since I expressed my support to more unusual posts like m77s in that message, I had to assume, that teletubo has a different credo and supports banning people just because they are "abnormal".

I tried to make my point with asking for a ban of teletubo because of his avatar as a provocation. In fact I think it's funny - but I thought the same of m77 or [you], so thats my argument of "where to draw the line". I don't want [you] to get banned for minor reasons...

It all boils down, that I want things as comprehensible as possible, so editing out really offensive content is OK, but deletion of messages or topics makes things look dubious. It's like burning all evidence of a crime case after judgement, so nobody could ever question the righteousness.

Since teletubo already consented that deleting the topic was a wrong move (unintentionally), it's more or less a non-issue now.


Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline gouessej
« Reply #23 - Posted 2011-09-08 15:25:42 »

The main reason for my complaint was, that the ban was not comprehensible from the content still online AND that messages like mine were deleted also.

Since I expressed my support to more unusual posts like m77s in that message, I had to assume, that teletubo has a different credo and supports banning people just because they are "abnormal".

I tried to make my point with asking for a ban of teletubo because of his avatar as a provocation. In fact I think it's funny - but I thought the same of m77 or [you], so thats my argument of "where to draw the line". I don't want [you] to get banned for minor reasons...

It all boils down, that I want things as comprehensible as possible, so editing out really offensive content is OK, but deletion of messages or topics makes things look dubious. It's like burning all evidence of a crime case after judgement, so nobody could ever question the righteousness.

Since teletubo already consented that deleting the topic was a wrong move (unintentionally), it's more or less a non-issue now.
I'm sad to say this but you expect this forum from being a democratic place whereas it isn't. Do you remember my feelings and what I argued when the showcase section and the featured sections had been created? Do you remember ChrisM's answer?

This is an anti-democratic change done without my consent, I'm really tired of explaining that it is not the best way to do.

And, as I have stated before, this is NOT a Democracy.  I am tired of explaining that as well.

Lastly, for the 8+ years that JGO has been in existence, I can't remember another situation like this.  It's not as if your posts were removed from the board, tampered with, condensed, etc.  Just moved to a new category to try and clean the place up.

If you feel that the site no longer serves your interests, well, the internet is a big place.

Oh, and welcome back Kevin Smiley  We really missed you!

I have never forgotten this bad time.

Offline Cero
« Reply #24 - Posted 2011-09-08 16:30:48 »

I'm sad to say this but you expect this forum from being a democratic place whereas it isn't. Do you remember my feelings and what I argued when the showcase section and the featured sections had been created? Do you remember ChrisM's answer?
...
I have never forgotten this bad time.

It's a forum on the internets...


Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #25 - Posted 2011-09-08 16:34:43 »

ChrisM was right: it isn't a democracy. But it's a place where many of us love to come to (including me, teletubo, and Riven) and if it became some kind of terrible atmosphere and people started leaving we certainly wouldn't benefit. I think we can all promise to try to be reasonable and apologize when we make mistakes. You could call it a "benevolent autocracy," where Riven is the autocrat who has trickled a bit of power down to the League of Dukes. Sometimes we, you, and [you] won't agree with his or Dukes' decisions, but I think we can all promise to try to be fair.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 840
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #26 - Posted 2011-09-08 17:15:49 »

I tried to make my point with asking for a ban of teletubo because of his avatar as a provocation. In fact I think it's funny - but I thought the same of m77 or Riven, so thats my argument of "where to draw the line". I don't want Riven to get banned for minor reasons...

Are you refering to my avatar, or to my behaviour? Smiley



If it's the avatar, well, I never thought of it as either provoking or edgy. I thought what I created was art-ish.

If it's my behaviour, sorry, I can't help myself.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social
Offline Cero
« Reply #27 - Posted 2011-09-08 17:24:18 »

I tried to make my point with asking for a ban of teletubo because of his avatar as a provocation. In fact I think it's funny - but I thought the same of m77 or Riven, so thats my argument of "where to draw the line". I don't want Riven to get banned for minor reasons...

Are you refering to my avatar, or to my behaviour? Smiley



If it's the avatar, well, I never thought of it as either provoking or edgy. I thought what I created was art-ish.

If it's my behaviour, sorry, I can't help myself.

lol owned. to think that Riven would be owned by his own stupid you-tag one of these days =D

Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
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Exp: 8 years



« Reply #28 - Posted 2011-09-08 17:25:53 »

totally pwned !

btw. I'm in favor of removing the < you > tag .

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

« JGO Overlord »


Medals: 840
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #29 - Posted 2011-09-08 17:28:32 »

This is an anti-democratic change done without my consent, I'm really tired of explaining that it is not the best way to do.
And, as I have stated before, this is NOT a Democracy.  I am tired of explaining that as well.
I have never forgotten this bad time.
I can only agree with Chris. You (or anybody else), as a member, have no rights on a forum you visit. Even if all members would demand a certain action or feature, there is no way to enforce that demand to the administrator. You can threaten to leave, spam, hack or DOS the site, just like you can destroy property in real life, but that's about it. In the end, it's either what the administrator wants, or what the law in the country is the server is hosted, which is kinda far fetched, but still.

Any influence or power you are given, is purely the result of the administrator being (somewhat) social and caring about the community.


Having said that, I think we can all agree m77 deserves a second chance, after some time, more time and two times less time.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social
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