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  Working alone vs. partnering up  (Read 5478 times)
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Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 25


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #30 - Posted 2011-06-29 11:23:05 »

Partnering up works fine as along as it's not with the code. One programmer, one artist, one sound engineer etc. Don't tread on each other toes then.

Kev

Offline namrog84

JGO Ninja


Medals: 46
Projects: 4


Keep programming!


« Reply #31 - Posted 2011-06-29 19:00:54 »

Partnering up works fine as along as it's not with the code. One programmer, one artist, one sound engineer etc. Don't tread on each other toes then.

Kev
]

I would have to agree "most" of the time. However like mentioned in the previous comments about finding the right one is like dating or falling in love.

A perfect example of this is Raigan and Mare from metanetsoftware.com
They are both programmers that share in a lot of the responsibility and managed to work together for the last 10+ years. 2 person team.

There are tid bits scattered around their blog and in other interviews how they work together.


I would love to find my partner in programming like they have.



"Experience is what you get when you did not get what you wanted"
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #32 - Posted 2011-06-29 21:45:36 »

I made serious effort on one team project; a Star Fox clone.  I was doing the level editor.  I was pretty green at the time with respect to gui coding. I put in a lot of work on it using the decided upon 'non standard' gui library.  When I showed my progress all I got was criticism from the other team members who'd done nothing.  That was a motivation destroyer.

It is a tough problem. I've often thought of developing skill in the area I lack ie graphic design slash art and going from there.  I don't really have an interest for that though so never did.  Seems like another aspect is the 'I'm not as good as I think I am' nature of software developers; most coders suck, but don't know it and think they're great.  Present company excepted of course Smiley

Very tough problem indeed.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline philfrei
« Reply #33 - Posted 2011-06-29 22:51:08 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.

Any way to implement on JGO? Or should it just be via individual initiative? Which area should such postings occur? Not sure "Community & Volunteer" is the right place if the goal is a for-profit collaboration. But the speculative nature makes it dubious for "Jobs & Resumes".

It would be nice if they were all on a single thread. One can always update one's "seeking" post in terms of availability or experience or desired strengths/weaknesses of potential partner.

"Greetings my friends! We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives!" -- The Amazing Criswell
Offline loom_weaver

JGO Coder


Medals: 17



« Reply #34 - Posted 2011-06-30 00:21:12 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.

Any way to implement on JGO? Or should it just be via individual initiative? Which area should such postings occur? Not sure "Community & Volunteer" is the right place if the goal is a for-profit collaboration. But the speculative nature makes it dubious for "Jobs & Resumes".

I would propose a time-share idea that I think has a better chance of catching on.  Here people list their projects and then pledge 2 hours of their time to each other.  If there is mutual interest then a match is made and each person promises to spend 2 solid hours reviewing a certain portion of the other's game and providing constructive criticism.

This could go further all the way down to the code-review level.

A short time commitment and a win-win situation for both parties.  It might even lead to longer-term pairings.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 12


Game Engineer


« Reply #35 - Posted 2011-06-30 01:07:30 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.

Any way to implement on JGO? Or should it just be via individual initiative? Which area should such postings occur? Not sure "Community & Volunteer" is the right place if the goal is a for-profit collaboration. But the speculative nature makes it dubious for "Jobs & Resumes".

I would propose a time-share idea that I think has a better chance of catching on.  Here people list their projects and then pledge 2 hours of their time to each other.  If there is mutual interest then a match is made and each person promises to spend 2 solid hours reviewing a certain portion of the other's game and providing constructive criticism.

This could go further all the way down to the code-review level.

A short time commitment and a win-win situation for both parties.  It might even lead to longer-term pairings.
I don't get the point of that. It seems like you just lose time? Or are you thinking that it will eventually cause one of them to abandon their project to work on the other one?

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 6
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #36 - Posted 2011-06-30 01:29:52 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.
Any way to implement on JGO? 

I think it would be a good idea if there was a big demand on that . But if you think about it, how many people will actually fill up that form ? Not many, I guess.
I believe individual initiative would save Riven's time and have same results .
In my opinion "Community & Volunteer" would do. There is not much activity there anyway so nobody will complain if you're "ruining" the forum purpose.

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 5


I always win!


« Reply #37 - Posted 2011-06-30 01:57:39 »

Well, might work, but honestly, I'm always a pessimist about fluffy ideas.

No, I believe that the people capable of putting together a game are ninjas, and they are pretty much busy already saving the world, on their own.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 322
Projects: 2
Exp: 4 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #38 - Posted 2011-06-30 05:11:42 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.

Any way to implement on JGO? Or should it just be via individual initiative? Which area should such postings occur? Not sure "Community & Volunteer" is the right place if the goal is a for-profit collaboration. But the speculative nature makes it dubious for "Jobs & Resumes".

It would be nice if they were all on a single thread. One can always update one's "seeking" post in terms of availability or experience or desired strengths/weaknesses of potential partner.
Best way.....make your own match.com

Well, might work, but honestly, I'm always a pessimist about fluffy ideas.

No, I believe that the people capable of putting together a game are ninjas, and they are pretty much busy already saving the world, on their own.
So true, I mean look at Ninja Gaiden...pure awesomeness already.

Offline divxdede

Junior Member





« Reply #39 - Posted 2011-06-30 08:29:50 »

I'm working on a very little game from a while.
And i do it alone (except for sounds for wich i work with a sound designer).

If at this time i prefer to work on solo, it's because i can work on my spare time like as i want.
When you build a team, even if it's an amateur team, you must manage your work like (or near) a real job.
You must engage on some deadlines or objectives to each others.

You should really consider theses commitments before to choose to join or build a team.
In the other part, it's true that someone else on the project help you to keep your motivation and you have someone to show your job Tongue

(sorry for my poor english).

Séb.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline R.D.

Senior Member


Medals: 2
Projects: 1


"For the last time, Hats ARE Awesome"


« Reply #40 - Posted 2011-06-30 09:26:22 »

I kinda agree with kev. I worked on a projekt for school and had the feeling doing almost everthing alone. And my partner had the guts to say I'm doing it wrong. I really like whenn people -who know what there doing- telling me what I'm doing wrong, but games are something I'm pretty decent -far from good of super- but decent.
The result of this that I think when it comes to code. There should be a hard cut in who does what. Teams are the most effecient when each is coding alone (maybe 2 MAYBE) and have could interfaces to work with.
Offline pitbuller
« Reply #41 - Posted 2011-06-30 10:12:18 »

Team work is really huge motivation booster. It's also only way to get feedback fast enough.
Offline R.D.

Senior Member


Medals: 2
Projects: 1


"For the last time, Hats ARE Awesome"


« Reply #42 - Posted 2011-06-30 11:48:16 »

You really need a good structure to make a good team. A bad structure can boost you motivation in the wrong direction too. (but I kinda love to work in a team when int comes to projects for work, there you have people you understand what you'r doing and contribute stuff)
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #43 - Posted 2011-06-30 13:03:01 »

Kev's dead right. Provided everyone working on a project brings a completely different skillset to the table no-one is going to tread on anyone else's toes*. Ideally you want just one coder and one artist and one sound and music person. Any more than that and you probably should be questioning the scope of your indie project. Any more than that and you stand a high chance of failure.

Chaz has just gone away for a month Sad Alack! I am undone.

Cas Smiley

* Adam Martin had a good way to deal with this sort of squabbly conflict resolution when it does occur : "if you do it first, then you are right."

Offline Cero
« Reply #44 - Posted 2011-06-30 16:10:24 »

I have worked on my current project for 2 years alone, then immediately upped my team to 5, consisting of 3 programmers (which includes me), 2 artist and audio tasks are shared. I also do all the writing and scripting myself and since I've worked alone for a long time, I also do graphics, sounds, music, basically everything.

I haven't looked back, in fact, we will soon be looking for more people.

But in my case the scope is very different because this board tends to consists of people doing casual games; and my co-members are all college people, and we meet twice a week.
So I have yet to experience how it is with online-people.

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 5


I always win!


« Reply #45 - Posted 2011-07-01 13:34:46 »

Getting partners like that, sound guy, art guy, to work a game that you will try to sell means you have to decide on the split, especially if the game makes a lot of money. You don't want lawsuits. Imagine if Minecraft used some textures from some guy, and Markus didn't fully negotiate the split with him, he might be entitled to half of Minecraft's revenue, or all? Who knows. Just look at Facebook, lots of lawsuits from some guys who claim it was their idea, or claim to own half of Facebook.

Inviting someone to your project, that does miniscule work, can be risky, because what happens if you decide to throw his ass out after he's put in some work but you're not happy with him because he's not active enough or skilled enough? You can't really throw everything out that he's put in, he may claim this and that gameplay was "his idea", even if you remove all his artwork out of the game.

And who would want to join a project where the lead can throw you out anytime no matter what and own whatever you've done?

Partnering up is ... complicated Smiley

Partnering up with someone in real life, that you can meet up with, is probably best. That brings a much more "seriousness" and commitment to the partnership.


But I would refrain from partnering, unless I see a tremendous benefit.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline loom_weaver

JGO Coder


Medals: 17



« Reply #46 - Posted 2011-07-01 14:56:09 »

We should establish a Java GameCoders "Dating Service". Fill out a form of strengths, weaknesses, experience, and desired attributes in a partner. Read through same of prospective partners.

Any way to implement on JGO? Or should it just be via individual initiative? Which area should such postings occur? Not sure "Community & Volunteer" is the right place if the goal is a for-profit collaboration. But the speculative nature makes it dubious for "Jobs & Resumes".

I would propose a time-share idea that I think has a better chance of catching on.  Here people list their projects and then pledge 2 hours of their time to each other.  If there is mutual interest then a match is made and each person promises to spend 2 solid hours reviewing a certain portion of the other's game and providing constructive criticism.

This could go further all the way down to the code-review level.

A short time commitment and a win-win situation for both parties.  It might even lead to longer-term pairings.
I don't get the point of that. It seems like you just lose time? Or are you thinking that it will eventually cause one of them to abandon their project to work on the other one?

This is mainly to address the lack of people to bounce ideas off of.  However I would agree that it isn't much of a long term solution.
Offline philfrei
« Reply #47 - Posted 2011-07-01 20:16:36 »

1  
Getting partners like that, sound guy, art guy, to work a game that you will try to sell means you have to decide on the split, especially if the game makes a lot of money. You don't want lawsuits. 


If real money is being made, expect lawsuits.(?) I just finished "Cryptonomicon" about a month ago (Neil Stephenson) and that was one of the bigger themes.

Dealing with compensation IS tricky, and not entirely rational, especially for DIY. I think there could be ways to make agreements that would make things easier to swallow, like capping the compensation from the royalty stream. If one "hires" a collaborator, I'd consider an arrangement where the value of the service is first figured out at a normal market rate. Then, the more risk (the longer the period before getting paid) the collaborator takes on, the more the value is increased. But cap it. So for example, if someone does some work that would be compensated at $500, and defers all the pay to a percentage of future sales revenue, perhaps they would receive 10% of the income derived until the amount of $1000 is reached, or 50% of the income until $750 is reached or some such formula.

Would something like that work? I've seen musical bands finance CD production by promising a high percentage of the first sales to the investors, but retaining full ownership once the agreed return has been covered.

Also, in the case of audio/soundtrack, there can be an agreement that the composer/sound designer can make and sell .mp3 of the music used, and that there be cross-promotion. I've seen that sort of thing. Or the libretto/composer split in opera or musicals--that can work out to be pretty clean.

But perhaps kind of ideal is finding a partner where you can just say everything is 50%-50% and forget about it after that. These are rare, but the results can be awesome, e.g., Lennon-McCartney.

A general principal: it's a good thing to have (the right) people actively have an interest in your becoming a success, yes?

"Greetings my friends! We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives!" -- The Amazing Criswell
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