question going2futureReleases

[Olaf]

hi lwjgllers' !

i known, that its' called
Lightweight Java Game Library
and not "all-in-one-lib"

...but i have a question for future releases:

will it be possible to see more than one window ?

i like your game lib very much an i plan to create some 3d stuff.
first think made with your lib:
http://object4you.com/erde02/erde02.jnlp
...think' you know that.

i like to have more than one view (like "ugly" java3d).
see http://object4you.de/openSource/java-openGL/java3D/index.html
and click the webstart button, if you've java3d installed.
(page is german only, just look at the picture...)

i'm an older java developer and want to use lwjgl for simulations.

-----------------------------------------------------
suggestions for the only-one-window :
- setUndecorated(true); // window cames "pure", without title....
- setLocation(int x, int y); // !

setUndecorated is used for Frame and Dialog,
and works fine !

with this additional window properties ist is possible
to embedd the window in swing-applications.

..
it think
the main question, how to create more than one window,
cannot be answered so simply.

but what about "window-embedd-support" ?

thank you for answers
and apologize my rusty school english !

greetZ2all,
olaf

[princec]

We're very unlikely to do this for LWJGL because it adds a whole new dimension of complexity to using the API.

Cas

[Olaf]

We're very unlikely to do this for LWJGL because it adds a whole new dimension of complexity to using the API.

Cas

uuh - using dynamic windows seems complicated - yes!

but what about ?
suggestions for the only-one-window :
- setUndecorated(true); // window cames "pure", without title....
- setLocation(int x, int y); // !

2 functions that a java developer can really embedd LWJGL ?!

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[princec]

well, really the LWJGL is supposed only to support fullscreen mode. In fact on the Mac it currently only supports fullscreen. The windowed mode was a debugging aid! It just got made nicer on Win32 and Linux. Maybe the other devs could chip in and say what they think of adding this API. It doesn't sound unreasonable but it won't be a guaranteed-to-work function.

Cas

[Olaf]

your arguments are logical !
i know, that the focus on lwjgl is gaming in fullscreen mode !
and this is great !

but please dont' ignore simple-window functions.
java-developers cannot embedd lwjgl in their windows/frames or whatever....

i am not allone, i know coders who created a little flight simulator with java3d
http://hardcode.de/fg/index.htm
and this guy told me, that he is missing windowing functionality on lwjgl !

no chance of implementing  "setLocation(Point pt)"
and "setUndecorated (true)" ?
(...with a little mac-workaround ? )

[swpalmer]

If you want to interact with AWT you should probably go with JOGL.  The JOGL bindings are supposed to work with AWT and so that feature does work on Macs and everywhere else.

It seems to me (never having actually used it) that LWJGL is primarily for making 'take over the machine' style games.  This is not something you would ever use if you want to interact with the desktop at the same time.

[princec]

Precisely - LWJGL is a platform leveller, designed to work on the most bare-bones system possible. This also means we force your game to work on the most barebones system possible. There's no point in letting you use multiple windows if we can't guarantee them being available on the target platform! You're supposed to be writing code once that works anywhere - we've basically achieved that for Win32, Linux, and MacOSX.

Our next step is a console I should think, or some embedded device. Definitely no windowing systems there! But your game should still run exactly as intended.

Cas

ps. anyone with any bright ideas about how to take a Linux distro, chuck out all the shit and just leave it with a browser/mail thing, OpenOffice, JVM, and GL drivers?

[Jacko]

Have you looked at knoppix? Its a linux distro that runs from CD, but you can install it to HD. Seem to remember reading somewhere that the install can be customised.

[Mac_Systems]

Well,

it makes sense for me at all . But...i really dislike the support of Windowed/Fullscreen on most plattforms. MacOSX actually supports only Fullscreen...please fix that as i dont want to code that checks it in some way, only for such basic features.

- Jens

[cfmdobbie]

MacOSX actually supports only Fullscreen...please fix that as i dont want to code that checks it in some way, only for such basic features.

I don't think you have to, your game should just work - LWJGL will push MacOSX into full-screen if necessary.  You shouldn't need to check something like that (although you could - Display.isFullscreen() I think?)


As for a custom Linux distro, take a look at Linux From Scratch; it appears to be popular.  And currently under development - last update was yesterday.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Mac_Systems]

Hi,

games ?

Everone thinking about doing Games! No i dont want to. I focus on Music Visualizations for my Mp3 Player project. I would be handy if the user can choose if the Visualizations run in Fulllscreen or Windowed mode....and this should not the problem at all i think. Please think about it ..it really opens the door to some other LWJGL Projects. Well im plan to open a API to create Visualizations for my Player. The PlugIn developer can focus on the PlugIn Code without kownlege about the do's and dont's Well the lib is so far the most attractiv OpenGL Lib ...let it grow more a bit. I allready made some test with it, some of you will know the render to texture demo. It is the first step into Music Visualization ..keep on the good work  

Two friends of me will start code a Visualization when my PlugIn api is released, so there are two more LWJGL users just around the corner.... And the LWJGL needs more to became more popular.

- jens

[cfmdobbie]

Ah, okay.

Just out of interest, what do you want to do - in your app - about the presence or lack of a full-screen mode?  Your plugin runs - what do you do if (1) only windowed mode is supported, (2) only full-screen is supported, or (3) both windowed and full-screen are supported?

Will you stop the visualisation from running at all, or alternatively run it in the other mode?

[Mac_Systems]

Well,

i allready know the problematic Windowed/Fullscreen on some OS. Running on Linux is difficult i know. There are some
OS specific limits, but on Mac ?

For example the iTunes Visual PlugIn can do it both full and windowed. Is it too difficult to implement in LWJGL/Mac  ? All i wanted is a complete LWJGL to get most out of it.  I do not want special features, but completness.

In my opinion the USER tells me how to run the PlugIn on his maschine, resrictions beside the OS may be ok, But resrictions only coming from LWJGL are not good and frustate the User!

As example let's take Alien Fluxx, the game allways switches into fullscreen, grrr , why ? My Maschine had somtimes some troubles when in fulscreen, i dont want to reboot it everytime, when testing Fullscreen.

Why i cannot run in Windowmode ? You say "performance" , i know, also it it the debug mode (for game developers of course). How want you to develop Games on Mac  when only the Fullscreen Mode(s) avaible, eh ?

..my itension about all this .....make LWJGL the first choice
in Java.....

- jens

[Olaf]

thank you jens alias mac-systems for arguments supporting a little bit windowing' ....
-
2all lwjgl developers:

lwjgl ist the best java-opengl bridge i've seen!
with
"setLocation(Point pt)"
and
"setDecoration(false);" // no title,buttons,...
you can make java-game-simulations developers happier.
-
i "browsed" your source on windows platform.
(a life before, i was an c++-windows sdk-man;-))
and it's clear, that the static window-model is easy to handel.
multiple windows are impossible. or you have to enhance....
...and to leave your own ideas !
-
ok! - NO multiple windows. we dont' need them for games!
but think about setUndecorated and setLocation.
lwjgl will be better. you will see this very soon,
'cause in my next earth-solarsystem-release lwjgl will be sorrounded by own-controls....
-
sorry - that i talk over and over again.
but lwjgl will become 1.0 - and should be complete, in my opinion.

thank you, for your good work and wish best codeZ !
greetZ2all,
olaf

[Herkules]

I always felt that it is some added quality when a game is able to run in a window or fullscreen due the users choice. So LWJGLs window mode should be more than a debugging aid.

[princec]

It may happen. Depends on OSX being friendly though.

Cas

[swpalmer]

Should be possible at least on Panther (OS X 10.3).    I'm not sure what was done for JOGL, but it did require making a change to Mac JRE to get it to run on Jaguar.. with Mac Java 1.4.1 update 1. JOGL worked in windows... I don't know how different the internals are between LWJGL and JOGL.. but obviously windowed mode on Mac is now possible.

[Mac_Systems]

Hi,

it's possible if i understand you right ?
How long it takes to make it into lwjgl ?

- jens

[Olaf]

if it's possible to implement windowing mode-functions,
please do it.

you will win more game-developers for lwjgl.

[princec]

I'm sure we can get setLocation() in there. setUndecorated() would have to be called before construction for maximum compatibility.

Assume we will them for the next release.

Cas

[Olaf]

I'm sure we can get setLocation() in there. setUndecorated() would have to be called before construction for maximum compatibility.

Assume we will them for the next release.

Cas

sounds very good !
thank you and happy coding !  
olaf