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  Is java still the way to go?  (Read 6618 times)
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Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 346
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #30 - Posted 2011-04-12 23:09:48 »

We should all speak American. We won our independence from you for a reason Smiley
You won your independence with the help of France and Spain. However, I don't advise people to learn my mother tongue.
Tu parles Francais? Parce-que je parle Francais tres bien Wink

Offline avm1979
« Reply #31 - Posted 2011-04-13 02:30:19 »

All that theory and research is nice but then you go and open NetBeans, JEdit, or one of the other many Java built applications and you find quite a different reality.

Haven't used Netbeans, but Eclipse is extremely snappy on my system.  And I'm very particular about that sort of thing.

A lot of java "enterprise" applications tend to be ridiculous bloated crap, though.

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 346
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #32 - Posted 2011-04-13 02:37:03 »

All that theory and research is nice but then you go and open NetBeans, JEdit, or one of the other many Java built applications and you find quite a different reality.

Haven't used Netbeans, but Eclipse is extremely snappy on my system.  And I'm very particular about that sort of thing.
Yes for me and my crappy laptop, Eclipse is very fast and rarely hangs.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline gouessej
« Reply #33 - Posted 2011-04-13 11:52:56 »

We should all speak American. We won our independence from you for a reason Smiley
You won your independence with the help of France and Spain. However, I don't advise people to learn my mother tongue.
Tu parles Francais? Parce-que je parle Francais tres bien Wink
Yes I speak French, it is my mother tongue. I was born in the north of France. [Oui je parle français, c'est ma langue maternelle. Je suis né au nord de la France]

Offline ra4king

JGO Kernel


Medals: 346
Projects: 3
Exp: 5 years


I'm the King!


« Reply #34 - Posted 2011-04-13 17:40:32 »

Je suis né en Egypt mais j'ai habité en France pour 8 ans Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #35 - Posted 2011-04-15 17:55:09 »

All that theory and research is nice but then you go and open NetBeans, JEdit, or one of the other many Java built applications and you find quite a different reality.
It does not prove anything. These programs are sometimes not responsive enough, maybe they have too big a memory footprint, it does not mean that Java itself is slow. When I use Jake 2, I find what I expect from a Java application. I have used Java since 2002 and I have worked on some professionnal polished applications, this is the subset of the reality that I see. You can write bad programs with any language.
When you look at the non-Java versions of those applications (such as Visual Studio instead of NetBeans and Eclipse, and Notepad++ instead of JEdit) then you find them more responsive and use less memory. The same is also for plenty of other Java apps I've used over the years.

Actually NetBeans and Eclipse launch faster when you include the opening of projects. They both run faster and are way more powerful than Visual Studio.  Even for C/C++ development.  They do use more memory.. partly because in a garbage collecting environment there is overhead, and partly because they have way more features.

C/C++ has it's place, but in general terms Java is usually a better language for dealing with applications.  System level stuff (like drivers), or areas that do need hand tuning in critical loops (with MMX/SSE, etc.) benefit from C/C++ and how easily it transitions between machine code and C+C++ compiled code.

I'm currently working on a project that uses a lot of mixed C++ and Java (I develop in C/C++ and Java) and the C++ parts are the most tedious.  Simple things like dealing with text are a chore in C++ and I don't have to give it a thought in Java... why - because C++ doesn't do strings well.. it can't even decide what a string is , having char*, wchar_t *, std:string, std:wstring, LPCSTR, not to mention needing to deal with encodings of 8-bit strings... u-g-l-y.      Our product processes video which is obviously sensitive to performance and yet we do as much as we can in Java because of the productivity gains and the cross-platform features it provides.  We use C++ mainly to interface with native libraries from 3rd parties, and occasionally in a few places where it is just more suited to the task because of the low-level nature of the bit-twiddling that needs to be done.

The benefits of using Java come from a few places, language features (e.g. Strings), VM features (e.g. hotspot, portability), libraries (Java runtime has a lot more going for it out of the box), and perhaps just as important Tools (Netbeans, Eclipse, visualvm, Ant, etc. vs.  VisualStudio).

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #36 - Posted 2011-04-16 11:49:48 »

Actually NetBeans and Eclipse launch faster when you include the opening of projects. They both run faster and are way more powerful than Visual Studio.
Well not for me.

One of my current big gripes with NetBeans is that it often pauses for around 10 seconds when I switch to it after a while. I even know it's around 10 seconds because NetBeans now shows a little popup at the bottom now telling you how long it's stalled for (just to rub it in). Even just closing it down takes ages.

It also felt like your post was implying VS was written in C++ (talk about Java vs C++ and that NetBeans/Eclipse have GC). Large parts of VS are written in .NET and they have been using it for sections for several versions now. For VS 2010 the entire UI was even rebuilt using WPF.

Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 27
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #37 - Posted 2011-04-16 12:24:57 »

This at least shows that performance is dominated more by the HW  and OS its running under than the lang it is written in.

If there is a slow C/C++/.net/whatever app (MS word --whatever) folks don't go "well C/C++ must be slow". They know its the coder. Well it is the same in java. Bad code runs like crap. Good code can be very snappy and fast. Its reputation that its java and not the coder is plain wrong.

Now days with such stupidly fast machines, performance is down to the programmer and their understanding of the environment they are coding in.

Remember, programing languages are tools. Not religions. Choose the best tool for the job.

Java is often the right tool for a lot of what i do. Not always, but mostly.

But the best, most awesome language ever is Lisp.   Wink

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline Mordan

Junior Member





« Reply #38 - Posted 2011-04-16 13:35:54 »

Visual Studio is a piece is shit.

Features suck. It sometimes is very slow. I hate it when doing some C# and ASP.NET.

The problem with Netbeans is not Java. The problem is the bloated Swing UI. I don't know exactly what's the problem. But everynow and then your mouse pointer hicups. And for example, you cannot play with even simple menus without serious graphical lag.

Dual Screen using Eclipse makes coding fun. (anyone has a triple screen setup ?)
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