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  I just realized something, i love bad games now!  (Read 7344 times)
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Offline Kurten

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« Posted 2011-02-11 22:16:25 »

I have been following a video series for about 2 or 3 months now called Extra credits. Some of you might be familiar with it. They basically talks about game design and various other topics related to the games industry. Today i saw a video that made me rethink my view on bad games.

My previous way of thinking:

A good game brings me joy. It makes me disappear into another world. It teaches me various things, like how a good story should be, how to design interesting characters, how good controls should be.

Crappy games are not worth any money. However, if the studio that made the game is made up of really dedicated people, but surrounded by harsh conditions it can be bought depending on the various circumstances.

A good game made by people not dedicated to making good games, but instead dedicated to earning money, is not worth buying since the studio's way of thinking doesn't suit me. Exceptions can be made if the game is really good.


My new way of thinking:

A good game brings me joy. It makes me disappear into another world. It teaches me various things, like how a good story should be, how to design interesting characters, how good controls should be. (Same as above basically)

Now comes the difference:
A crappy game IS worth buying!
Why is that? Because it teaches you how things like controls, camera angles, level designs, character designs, mini-game designs should NOT be implemented.
The thing with good games is that they are hard to analyze, you are so wrapped up in the awesome experience that you don't notice minor glitches, bugs, poorly implemented features etc, etc. A horrible game will do a lot less to hide the poorly implemented stuff, thus making it easier for you to learn.

For you wondering what i got this from, check this:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2738-Playing-Like-a-Designer-Part-2

I think im going to walk down to the game store tomorrow and buy some cheap, shitty games to play XD

Anyone wanna discuss this? Cheesy
Offline aazimon
« Reply #1 - Posted 2011-02-11 23:25:38 »

That's a very true statement, but you might want to wait for the price to go down.  Smiley
Offline Kurten

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2011-02-11 23:30:12 »

I visit the local game store frequently, they have some games i have seen standing there for like a year or two, i never bought em since i thought they were really crappy. They usually cost like 50-100 swedish kronor. (It's about 5-10 euro)
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Offline ReBirth
« Reply #3 - Posted 2011-02-12 03:48:04 »

Quote
The thing with good games is that they are hard to analyze, you are so wrapped up in the awesome experience that you don't notice minor glitches, bugs, poorly implemented features etc, etc. A horrible game will do a lot less to hide the poorly implemented stuff, thus making it easier for you to learn.

I'm on it. Also many games out there which only show their good quality of display and animation but lack on others.


Offline pjt33
« Reply #4 - Posted 2011-02-12 11:21:49 »

You can play hundreds of crappy games for free on Kong. Wink
Offline deepthought
« Reply #5 - Posted 2011-02-28 23:45:58 »

DOOM ,QUAKE , and minecraft could be considered bad games from the graphics standpoint, but the gameplay is awesome.

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Offline princec

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« Reply #6 - Posted 2011-03-01 09:38:59 »

Can't see anything bad about the graphics in any of those games... all fit for purpose and aesthetically pleasing, and that's all that counts.

Cas Smiley

Offline kappa
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« Reply #7 - Posted 2011-03-01 09:42:13 »

Doom and Quake both had cutting edge graphics at the time of their releases, bit unfair 18 years down the line to say the graphics are bad.
Offline princec

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« Reply #8 - Posted 2011-03-01 09:54:37 »

Indeed, you have to get beyond a simplistic appraisal of resolution, pallette range, and polygon counts and understand the meaning and purpose of the graphics before you can say they are good or bad. Many games' graphics on the C64 and Atari ST and Amiga are still excellent today. So excellent that rather a lot of indie developers try and copy them Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline deepthought
« Reply #9 - Posted 2011-03-01 13:14:05 »

i'm not saying the graphics ARE bad, in fact i love them. i've had dreams in 320x200 256 bit color (don't ask. i don't know how either). i'm just saying that some would consider them to have bad graphics. but the gameplay is still awesome.

jocks rule the highschools. GEEKS RULE THE WORLD MWAHAHAHA!!
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Offline princec

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« Reply #10 - Posted 2011-03-01 13:35:48 »

There's always "some" who consider everything they look at to be crappy but these I suspect are mostly just kids or big kids (we get people telling us they could write our games in Flash, heh). They are easily ignored. It riles me when a supposed critic does the same, mind. I don't think I've seen a professional* game with bad graphics in the last 20 years, if I'm honest.

Cas Smiley

* literal meaning of the word.

Offline pjt33
« Reply #11 - Posted 2011-03-01 14:06:29 »

Depends on what you mean by "bad". I think the original Worms' graphics are much better than the ones in the more recent (e.g. XNA) members of the franchise.
Offline princec

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« Reply #12 - Posted 2011-03-01 14:30:59 »

I don't think you could say they were any better or worse either way; they just make full use of what technology is available. In many ways the modern graphics are considerably better technically, but probably the only significant advance over the original Amiga version is that the display zooms as well as pans.

Cas Smiley

Offline pjt33
« Reply #13 - Posted 2011-03-01 16:10:03 »

I don't think you could say they were any better or worse either way; they just make full use of what technology is available. In many ways the modern graphics are considerably better technically, but probably the only significant advance over the original Amiga version is that the display zooms as well as pans.

Cas Smiley
Oh, they've got more bit depth, but IMO the look has gone from a serious game to a toy for five-year-olds.
Offline OverKill

Junior Devvie




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« Reply #14 - Posted 2011-03-01 16:19:17 »

I fully agree. Also thanks for the link, some great resources.

I remember once stumbling over a copy of Moonbase (among others) on home of the underdogs and really loving the game. It was simple yet fun.

Sadly today most people only focus on the eye-candy instead of the game and basically the companies give them just that.
Offline princec

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2011-03-01 16:55:27 »

Hm I'd sat that the latest Worms has very clear and concise graphics and icons that are superbly designed and that at it's core it's still exactly the same aesthetic as the original Amiga version. And they look wonderful on a great big telly with the whole family around it trying to kill each other on a PS3 Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline xinaesthetic

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1



« Reply #16 - Posted 2011-03-07 18:25:28 »

Sadly today most people only focus on the eye-candy instead of the game and basically the companies give them just that.

pffft, I'm sure people have been swaying that since before DOOM came out.  Not that there's no truth in it, but ultimately good games do well for being good games.
Offline OverKill

Junior Devvie




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« Reply #17 - Posted 2011-03-08 08:55:44 »

pffft, I'm sure people have been swaying that since before DOOM came out.  Not that there's no truth in it, but ultimately good games do well for being good games.
You are correct, maybe instead of 'today' I should have gone for the 'in my day'. Wink

@Good Games:
Depends on your definition of 'good game', and then we are back at square 1.
Usually the first criteria people go on are graphics because that is the first thing they see.
How many people would have stuck with Minecraft if they had only the Screenshots to work with?
Offline fruitmaze

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« Reply #18 - Posted 2011-03-08 13:02:44 »

I think it is hard to say that a game has good or bad graphics. I mean what are the guidelines for "good" graphics? When I look at graphics in a game, I mostly look at it the same way as when I look at a painting. A painting by Picasso or da Vinci have qualities in their own way, and both pixelalted graphics and super realistic 3d graphics have their qualities. But I guess most people enjoy realistic paintings compare to abstract though.
Offline Eli Delventhal

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2011-03-08 18:36:19 »

ZOMG ALL CRY-ENGINE GAMES HAVE TERRIBLE GRAPHICS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN 3D

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Offline Kurten

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« Reply #20 - Posted 2011-03-11 11:25:21 »

Im a bit suprised that this thread has recieved so much replies, when i first posted it it didn't get that much attention.
Another thing that i am a bit suprised over is that whenever people talk about bad or good games, graphics is always a major topic of discussion. Graphics plays a very minor role in determening whether a game is fun or not. At least it does for me. An example: Far cry 2 = eye candy but really, really boring and repetitive gameplay. no offence toward the guys that liked it, but for me it just wasn't fun playing. As you all know, the main objective with a game is to be fun.

On-topic: Far cry 2 learned me that one should not design traveling in an open world so that you are intercepted by armed rebels every 2 mins and constantly have to fight for your life while searching for new vehicles.
Offline Eli Delventhal

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« Reply #21 - Posted 2011-03-11 18:06:46 »

For the record, I was totally joking.

While I appreciate good graphics, they certainly aren't deal makers/breakers for me. I think the reason everyone here is talking about them is because, as programmers, graphics are typically what define a "high production value" game. We don't worry about the engineering because we've got it covered, but graphics are always on our minds. How can we get people to play our games with our crappy programmer graphics? Or how can we find an artist?

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Offline Kurten

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« Reply #22 - Posted 2011-03-12 19:29:23 »

I had the feeling you were not serious with your 3d crysis graphics statement Eli XD

I may have prestented my point a bit wierd though, what i meant is that many factors govern wether a game is successfull or unsuccessful, but only the graphics part gets discussed.
Offline deepthought
« Reply #23 - Posted 2011-03-27 15:51:40 »

let's stop talking about graphics for now, and assume, hypothetically, that the graphics on every game out there are equal.

now, let's compare say, Doom 1 and 2 with doom3. The mapping in Doom 1 and was much better than in doom 3, even though you couldn't have balconies or room over room. Id just started sucking at mapping.

character design complements mapping. For example, in BLOOD, I ended up in a kitchen sink, with a fat guy throwing cleavers and spitting green gunk at me, disembodied hands were crawling around, trying to choke me, and there's this big firebreathing dog running around. crazy gameplay is FUN! also, in blood, if you hit a zombie just right, its head flies off. you can then kick it like a soccer ball, and it trails blood as it goes flying. very entertaining. people also like gibbing things.

weapon design is also a part of a good game. Weird ones are very nice. take the flaregun from blood for example. it's entertaining lighting people on fire.Also, don't require reloading. even though the shotgun in Doom couldn't hold 100 shells in real life, the fact that you don't have to reload allows constant carnage.

next is how the game actually works. FPS games are mostly "kill everything" games. minecraft is a wierd mix of FPS and survival, with the twist that you make everything you use.

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Offline bobjob

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« Reply #24 - Posted 2011-03-27 17:15:13 »

God "blood" was a great game. "I LIVE AGAIN!!!"

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Offline deepthought
« Reply #25 - Posted 2011-03-27 18:14:52 »

yeah it is. just thought of something: several great games are totally weird. Just look at Earthworm Jim! The idea for Mario is totally outlandish. i mean, take goombas for instance, and those talking mushrooms. Super Smash Bros Brawl was a VERY strange experience. you wonder what they were on when they created Kirby's special attack.

jocks rule the highschools. GEEKS RULE THE WORLD MWAHAHAHA!!
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Offline bobjob

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« Reply #26 - Posted 2011-03-27 20:13:43 »

several great games are totally weird.
I wonder if that has anything to do with early games being marketed towards children, as the characters have a vey picture story book feel, and the jokes tend towards slapstick and potty humour. Modern games tend to be more seriouos. Even the indie creative games tend towards a specific stylistic feel or even sometimes trippy.

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Offline Mads

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« Reply #27 - Posted 2011-03-30 10:57:00 »

several great games are totally weird.
I wonder if that has anything to do with early games being marketed towards children, as the characters have a vey picture story book feel, and the jokes tend towards slapstick and potty humour. Modern games tend to be more seriouos. Even the indie creative games tend towards a specific stylistic feel or even sometimes trippy.

From what I've seen indie games seems to try new things and new gameplay more, and make more changes than the big companies that risk a lot of money.

Offline OverKill

Junior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Reply #28 - Posted 2011-03-30 15:04:00 »

One of my personal favorite shooters was NOLF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Operative:_No_One_Lives_Forever

So many cool ideas and maps. Sure it hat some frustrations (maps you had to sneak through) but I'd play it again if I ever got my hands on it.
Offline Kurten

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« Reply #29 - Posted 2011-04-01 13:30:23 »

Oh man, i loved NOLF and NOLF2! The humour in them was so awesome! My favorite map were the one in NOLF1 where you attack a marroco hotel full of guys with little red hats and sunglasses xD

Thumbs up for great games being totally weird! Lots of games that are very twisted have also been very successful. Litttle big planet is one game that pops up into my mind when i think of weird and twisted successful games. The fun of it doesn't lie in killing things like traditional fps's. Rather it's about being creative. Same thing with minecraft. Sure, killing creepers is fun, but the charm in minecraft lies in building.

I spent some time analyzing the games i bought a while ago. What i found out is that by adding companions in a very dull and boring game, you can make it fun. The game i discovered this in was beowulf the game. Man that was a horrible game without the thanes. The combat system sucked and it was too easy. But with a couple of thanes folowing you, taking orders from you and heping you in battle, it got fun. Im not saying Beowulf is a great game, cuz it's not! But it got better by adding companions.
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