Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (79)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (477)
Games in Android Showcase (106)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (533)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: 1 [2]
  ignore  |  Print  
  Who feels sometimes like he (she) is using the wrong language?  (Read 5806 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline DzzD
« Reply #30 - Posted 2010-12-22 22:41:16 »

I would agree that if you want to make something commercially compatbile just use flash... there was some greats demo at Adobe Max 2010.. working on desktop computer aswell as mobile phone  without any modification in source code, not to mention flash 10 will include accelerated 3D....

Offline gouessej
« Reply #31 - Posted 2010-12-22 22:54:15 »

not to mention flash 10 will include accelerated 3D....
As far as I know, only a very few 3D features will be really hardware accelerated. The 3D display won't use the Z-buffer, OpenGL and so on... but only a software W-buffer. Don't expect from having full OpenGL access in Flash.

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #32 - Posted 2010-12-22 22:59:04 »

For what I want to do, Java still trumps flash in almost every way, and flash certainly doesn't fix the problems I have with java.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline DzzD
« Reply #33 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:00:56 »

not to mention flash 10 will include accelerated 3D....
As far as I know, only a very few 3D features will be really hardware accelerated. The 3D display won't use the Z-buffer, OpenGL and so on... but only a software W-buffer. Don't expect from having full OpenGL access in Flash.
....flash is flash... you cant fight.... working every where


flash ( in brower  )
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8e7MRRzDjhk?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=fr_FR" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/8e7MRRzDjhk?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=fr_FR</a>



Offline gouessej
« Reply #34 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:02:25 »

Java doesn't have the iPhone. That's a huge gap in the smartphone market. AFAIK proper Java is also missing from Android (although I could be mistaken).
You can still use XMLVM (maybe a bit broken now?) or ISpectrum to use Java on IPhone but it is quite limited. Android DVM is not fast enough for heavy 3D and it is already enough to write 2D games and 3D very low poly games. If you want a proper Java on an androphone, use J2SE For Embedded if possible Smiley

There are also plenty about the disappointing levels of Java penetration in the browser.
Java's penetration is almost as good as Flash, more than 92% of desktop computers have a JVM whereas Flash is closer to 95%.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #35 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:03:45 »

Java's penetration is almost as good as Flash, more than 92% of desktop computers have a JVM whereas Flash is closer to 95%.
no! .... only for 1.1+ jvm

really come on java 6.0 is only 50%....

and flash work on all new mobile phone (except apple device if you dont hack them)

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #36 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:04:39 »

Java is awesome for big software. For anything small it suddently becomes a bit of a pain.

That's somewhat ironic, because Java was originally intended and designed to be used on small devices.


In the end, it's not really Java, but the willingness of the platform makers to support it. Same story with Flash.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline DzzD
« Reply #37 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:10:44 »

Quote
That's somewhat ironic, because Java was originally intended and designed to be used on small devices.

problem is still the same java(Sun/Oracle) take too much time to produce incompatible libraries rather than to ensure proper plugin or new device JVM

Offline fireside

Senior Newbie





« Reply #38 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:23:25 »

Quote
....flash is flash... you cant fight.... working every where

I think Java is better for a more in depth game than flash, but that may change.

That's the point, though.  The trend is away from c++ for productivity, especially concerning the web, and more and more apps are directed toward the web.  C++ has become no more than an underneath tool, so it's become more limited when actually making applications.  If you want to make low level tools, yeah, but the further you go downward, the fewer applications there are.  If you are into drivers, engines, etc, fine.  If you are into games and productivity apps, it's really not, anymore.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #39 - Posted 2010-12-22 23:35:02 »

ok ... ok...  ok...

I have trouble to understand how you can believe what you said seeing current market of java game/flash game/C++ (mostly all AAA game) but dont want / cant  argue anymore...

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline delt0r

JGO Knight


Medals: 26
Exp: 18 years


Computers can do that?


« Reply #40 - Posted 2010-12-23 00:40:42 »

Many of the AAA titles use quite a lot, if not in bulk (ie most of the interesting stuff) in lua. Or least the few i have seen under the hood.

As for C++ portability. If for every platform I add to my supported list I have to a *lot* of work, then portability means something different to you and me. With that working definition, assembler is pretty portable too, in fact i have always seen C as syntax sugar to a assembler. The last line of DSPs we worked on we just used assembler anyway. I mean hell it even has a FFT instruction.

I am not trying to rag on C++ or C or anything else (right tools for the job). But adding another target to these is generally non trivial. And the whole "really good code its easy" doesn't really sell. Hell look at how many apps still won't work with x86_64. Its really not that much of a change, and we have had x86_64 for more than 6 years.

However one thing is now very true. A large amount of software these days spends more time in development, than in production, this is more true for games. I think languages that help with development (aka bounds checks, null pointer exceptions, GC etc) will become even more dominant in the future. Keep an eye on LLVM.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.--Albert Einstein
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #41 - Posted 2010-12-23 03:19:14 »

>Many of the AAA titles use quite a lot, if not in bulk (ie most of the interesting stuff) in lua.

Naaah... there are millions of lines of C/C++ code in the 3D engine, the physics engine, sound library, image/audio loaders, middleware and whatsnot.

Lua is often used for the high level game logic. E.g. in a first person shooter, you can create weapons on the Lua side. Which model, which sound files, which objects for projectiles, rate of fire, spread, zoom behavior, damage, splash, particle effects (declaration only), clip size, pickup size, max ammo, and things like that. You can also create menus, in-game menus, and the HUD this way. And all those things which would be usually in some kind of config file also end up in Lua scripts. No need to write a parser for that shit. FarCry did all of that stuff for example.

You can also script boss battles or mini games like that. E.g. press all those buttons within xx seconds and you see sequence A otherwise you see sequence B and die. (MDK2)

LuaJit is amazingly fast, by the way. (But I don't really like the look and feel of the language.)

Edit: On a second thought... it all depends on your definition of "interesting", I guess.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Online Roquen
« Reply #42 - Posted 2010-12-23 08:07:36 »

My main Java usage is for very small tools, which it is also very handy for. 

Back to the OP topic.  I'd be tempted to write a small native framework in plain old C and either use embedded Lua or V8.  The choice between Lua & V8 depending on a combination of personal preference and target needs:  game logic, platform, libraries and tools.  From a pure language standpoint there's no strong reason to choose one over the other as they are both prototype based.  Personally I'd go for V8.  Like oNyx I've never liked the syntax of Lua and V8 has better performance and is rapidly evolving.  Lua has the advantage of being older and it seems to have a strong community.  So there are good arguments for either.
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #43 - Posted 2010-12-23 11:27:27 »

Serverside I would stick with Java, client side something like C with Qt or C# with OpenGL sprinkled in.
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #44 - Posted 2010-12-23 12:31:29 »

> [...] V8 has better performance and is rapidly evolving.

LuaJit is bloody fast:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=v8&lang2=luajit

I'd also go with V8 though.

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline gouessej
« Reply #45 - Posted 2010-12-23 13:30:20 »

Sorry DzzD, I discovered Molehill Flash API thanks to you, I admit that Flash in 3D will be a real competitor. However, I disagree with your figures about Java penetration. Even in France it is not possible to pay your taxes on Internet without at least Java 1.5 and even Java 1.6 since last year...

Online Roquen
« Reply #46 - Posted 2010-12-23 14:48:55 »

The downside of LuaJit (at least the last time I looked at it) is that it's i32a only.  Luckily it's pretty small and armed (yuck! yuck!) with a minimal knowledge of ARM and asm banging out a port shouldn't be too difficult.

C# doesn't seem like a reasonable choice, esp for embedded devices.  Not really convinced it would be a good idea for desktop either, for that matter.  This isn't a comment on C#, but on the VM choices.

Running Java on the server? Maybe.  Assuming the game needs a server, the choice should boil down to performance needs vs. the desired for a unified client & server DSL.
Pages: 1 [2]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

pw (24 views)
2014-07-24 01:59:36

Riven (22 views)
2014-07-23 21:16:32

Riven (18 views)
2014-07-23 21:07:15

Riven (21 views)
2014-07-23 20:56:16

ctomni231 (50 views)
2014-07-18 06:55:21

Zero Volt (45 views)
2014-07-17 23:47:54

danieldean (36 views)
2014-07-17 23:41:23

MustardPeter (39 views)
2014-07-16 23:30:00

Cero (54 views)
2014-07-16 00:42:17

Riven (54 views)
2014-07-14 18:02:53
HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 03:59:08

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:58:24

Java and Game Development Tutorials
by SwordsMiner
2014-06-14 00:47:22

How do I start Java Game Development?
by ra4king
2014-05-17 11:13:37

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-15 09:59:54

HotSpot Options
by Roquen
2014-05-06 15:03:10

Escape Analysis
by Roquen
2014-04-29 22:16:43

Experimental Toys
by Roquen
2014-04-28 13:24:22
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!