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  Is Eclipse worth it?  (Read 4991 times)
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Offline Sinuath

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Posted 2010-12-14 18:13:28 »

Hello All! I'm new here.

I took my first java programming class recently and i was hoping to learn enough about game programming to do the ludum game competition. I don't expect to do all that well either way, but i'm really looking forward to giving it a shot. If i crash and burn at least i have the learning experience for next time and a lot of room for improvement  Grin

Anyway, I kept hearing about eclipse and i thought i'd try it out but it seems like all i'm doing is fighting wizards the whole time. I used textpad/vim for the class and now the transition to eclipse and using all of these Wizards to get to the point where i can start coding is kind of a pain.

I was wondering what your guys take on it was, does it make things easier in the long run? Is having all of this automation the large appeal to people? Are there other benefits to using Eclipse? Should i stick it out?

Oh i came across Jcreator too, but everyone seems to think Eclipse is the greatest IDE ever and i'm having trouble figuring out why.

Hey [you][/you], you should totally check out my boring Site ~ http://davediel.com/chris
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 70
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #1 - Posted 2010-12-14 18:32:02 »

In answer to your first question 'is eclipse worth it?' I'd say yes, compared to JCreator at least. But i'd say try it and make up your own mind. Some prefer Netbeans, others Intellij IDEA, at the end of the day its whatever works best for you.
Offline Captain Awesome

Junior Member


Medals: 2


Hi


« Reply #2 - Posted 2010-12-14 19:01:43 »

I prefer Netbeans over eclipse since eclipse seems to have hicups on my computer.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline DzzD
« Reply #3 - Posted 2010-12-14 19:28:06 »

Quote
Oh i came across Jcreator too, but everyone seems to think Eclipse is the greatest IDE ever and i'm having trouble figuring out why.

hehe not everyone, I tryied NetBeans and Eclipse ( a while ago ), and definitly prefer JCreator... just sooo fast... never crash... low mem & CPU consumption...   persecutioncomplex

more than the IDE you have to keep your project(s) well organized, IDE is just a tool that wont make the application for you, IMO you must be able to change it at anytime ( limit external specific IDE files )

Offline BoBear2681

JGO Coder


Medals: 18



« Reply #4 - Posted 2010-12-14 19:50:35 »

Eclipse has a fairly steep learning curve.  If you're fairly new to Java, you're probably better off with just a syntax highlighting editor, javac and a browser pointing to the JDK javadocs.  Once your comfortable programming in Java this way, and your projects start getting more complex, then you can truly start to appreciate just how much Eclipse gives you.  The code completion, syntax checking, and compile-while-you-type alone are worth their weight in gold.

Once you get used to Eclipse having eliminated the manual compile step you have with the command line tools, it's very hard to go back.
Offline avm1979
« Reply #5 - Posted 2010-12-14 20:15:33 »

Yeah, once you learn it, it's tough to go back.  Any good IDE will do, though - just a question of getting used to how it does things and learning all the shortcuts Smiley  I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it gives me a >10x productivity gain.  I'll go as far as to say that it lets me do things that I would not be able to do otherwise.

Quote
If you're fairly new to Java, you're probably better off with just a syntax highlighting editor, javac and a browser pointing to the JDK javadocs.

This.  If you just jump in with Eclipse, you probably won't know what it's doing for you, and will hide how stuff works under the covers.  Without that understanding, it'll be really tough to debug build or coding related issues when they inevitably arise - the IDE isn't proof against those, just helps a lot.  You'll be shooting yourself in the foot as far as learning is concerned.


Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #6 - Posted 2010-12-14 21:29:24 »

I prefer NetBeans, but Eclipse is still excellent.

In a real project you work across multiple files in multiple locations and multiple projects. This is what an IDE really aims to help with over a text editor. Especially when your new to a project you can just right click on something and 'find usages' or 'go to source'.

Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #7 - Posted 2010-12-14 22:07:02 »

I also prefer NetBeans. I think its easier and more concise. But I am biased (well - I pretty much hate Eclipse Wink). Just try some IDEs and try to keep track of the manual steps they automate, so you won't get that black-box feeling.

Yes, it may be cumbersome.
Yes, it may be frustrating at times.
But yes, it will pay off in the end - trust us!  persecutioncomplex

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline Mike

JGO Ninja


Medals: 69
Projects: 1
Exp: 5 years


Java guru wanabee


« Reply #8 - Posted 2010-12-14 22:12:28 »

If you are several people working on the same project you'll love eclipse with subclipse Wink

I started programming in Eclipse right away, won't have it any other way now Smiley

Mike

My current game, Minecraft meets Farmville and goes online Smiley
State of Fortune | Discussion thread @ JGO
Offline Sinuath

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #9 - Posted 2010-12-14 23:14:00 »

Thx for all the input guys!

Guess i'll start using Eclipse, and if after a month i still don't like it i'll just jump back to Jcreator. I liked how lightweight it was, i'd use textpad but it's horrible at pointing out syntax errors.

Hey [you][/you], you should totally check out my boring Site ~ http://davediel.com/chris
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11


Game Engineer


« Reply #10 - Posted 2010-12-15 00:10:21 »

I use TextMate for simple projects and Eclipse for complex projects. TextMate is Mac only, a semi-equivalent for Windows is TextPad.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline avm1979
« Reply #11 - Posted 2010-12-15 00:45:22 »

I use TextMate for simple projects and Eclipse for complex projects. TextMate is Mac only, a semi-equivalent for Windows is TextPad.

Kind of surprising - seems like it would suck to lose all the source generation/navigation, autocomplete, and auto-compilation, effectively turning the simple project into a complex one Smiley  Maybe textmate (and textpad, haven't used either, actually, with my text editor of choice being ultraedit) is more powerful than I give it credit for.

Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #12 - Posted 2010-12-15 08:29:47 »

Thx for all the input guys!

Guess i'll start using Eclipse, and if after a month i still don't like it i'll just jump back to Jcreator. I liked how lightweight it was, i'd use textpad but it's horrible at pointing out syntax errors.
try netbeans first :-)

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2010-12-15 17:52:39 »

I've used Eclipse for years, but just today I installed Netbeans.

It seems to handle Maven multi-module projects much nicer.

Seems promising.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #14 - Posted 2010-12-15 18:33:12 »

Netbeans is great for maven. It misses some bells and whistles, but what's there just works and you don't have to setup or tweak anything. No project file adjusting, no facet mangling, no builder configuration - the pom simply is the project in netbeans.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11


Game Engineer


« Reply #15 - Posted 2010-12-15 19:13:25 »

Kind of surprising - seems like it would suck to lose all the source generation/navigation, autocomplete, and auto-compilation, effectively turning the simple project into a complex one Smiley  Maybe textmate (and textpad, haven't used either, actually, with my text editor of choice being ultraedit) is more powerful than I give it credit for.

Well the lack of bells and whistles is sort of what I look for. If I've just got a one-class project (either a fast script/benchmarker/Java4k game) then it's always a lot easier to avoid making a whole other project in my workspace and configure it and all that crap. The one thing I miss is having instant access to the Javadocs, and automatic imports.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline pjt33
« Reply #16 - Posted 2010-12-15 19:36:25 »

I use Eclipse on my desktop computer, but it just doesn't suit my netbook at all. On that I use kate.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned one of the big advantages of Eclipse, which is its refactoring. I miss that and its powerful searching now that I'm developing C# in Visual Studio.
Offline avm1979
« Reply #17 - Posted 2010-12-15 19:40:18 »

If I've just got a one-class project (either a fast script/benchmarker/Java4k game) then it's always a lot easier to avoid making a whole other project in my workspace and configure it and all that crap.

Ahh, yes.  I've got a single common project set up for those - it'd be quite annoying to set up a separate project per.

Offline cylab

JGO Knight


Medals: 34



« Reply #18 - Posted 2010-12-15 20:30:02 »

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned one of the big advantages of Eclipse, which is its refactoring. I miss that and its powerful searching now that I'm developing C# in Visual Studio.
Refactoring is pretty much standard with java IDEs nowerdays. And spend some money on the jetbrains resharper plugin. Everything else is pure masochism...;-)

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11


Game Engineer


« Reply #19 - Posted 2010-12-15 20:49:25 »

Ahh, yes.  I've got a single common project set up for those - it'd be quite annoying to set up a separate project per.
Yeah, I've done that to a certain extent as well, but I find it pretty clunky so I don't like to do it that way. Making separate Run Configurations for each class and the like just gets annoying. Also, I usually have difficulty understanding what is what when I come back later.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline fireside

Senior Newbie





« Reply #20 - Posted 2010-12-15 21:39:29 »

Netbeans seems more user friendly to me.  Nice tutorials, also.
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #21 - Posted 2010-12-16 02:20:01 »

At work I have both Eclipse and Netbeans open all the time; Eclipse for the ebj3 backend code, and the gui is a Netbeans RCP.  So I get to jump between them both all the time.  Eclipse definitly has some bugs; the editor is a little buggy, and its really slow editing large files (we have 10,000 line stateful bean).  Netbeans has no trouble with this file, and the editor is much more stable.

I used JCreator for years for hobby dev, before I started coding Java professionally.  Now I prefer Netbeans, because everything just works, and it comes bundled with everything you need.  Eclipse is an excercise in tracking down plugins.  I say if you like JCreator, stick with it.
Offline Mads

JGO Ninja


Medals: 24
Projects: 3


One for all!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2010-12-30 21:14:50 »

I like NetBeans the best, as it does not require you to set up a "workspace"  Cheesy

Offline krasse
« Reply #23 - Posted 2010-12-30 22:55:01 »

Eclipse is great according to me!

I once used Emacs for all my coding and was then amazed that the tab-key could do auto indent. And wow, (EmacsLisp 'is (such 'a (great 'language 'to 'do (anything with 'Wink))))))))))

The Eclipse/(Netbeans?) features "indent all", "organize imports" and "rename/refactor" are so extremely useful that I can't live without them anymore Smiley

Offline ReBirth
« Reply #24 - Posted 2011-01-31 03:06:19 »

Eclipse has a fairly steep learning curve.  If you're fairly new to Java, you're probably better off with just a syntax highlighting editor, javac and a browser pointing to the JDK javadocs.  Once your comfortable programming in Java this way, and your projects start getting more complex, then you can truly start to appreciate just how much Eclipse gives you.  The code completion, syntax checking, and compile-while-you-type alone are worth their weight in gold.

Once you get used to Eclipse having eliminated the manual compile step you have with the command line tools, it's very hard to go back.
I agree. I'm using Editplus text editor which kinda light, easy to use and (default) colorful syntax highlight. For error check, I think javac is enough since it will also tell you which line causing problem Cheesy

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #25 - Posted 2011-01-31 08:49:04 »

I also love that in NetBeans and Eclipse compile time errors become edit time errors; allowing you to fix typos literally within seconds of them being created.

Offline fruitmaze

Senior Member


Medals: 3
Projects: 2



« Reply #26 - Posted 2011-01-31 10:13:37 »

Eclipse is great! I used Textpad before, but Eclipse really makes things easier.
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #27 - Posted 2011-01-31 10:53:35 »

My first editor was emacs so Eclipse & Netbeans & Co are really easy to use.
I had also spent like 6+ years working with UltraEdit so the convenience of a real IDE is really nice.
Then again, they really require that *you* do the thinking, which separates the rookies from the pros.

@OP:
Download Eclipse & Netbeans and find out which one suits you best.
Being a beginner, using CodeCompletion and an IDE that takes care of the project mgnt stuff is a godsend.
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #28 - Posted 2011-02-01 22:39:27 »

My first editor was emacs so Eclipse & Netbeans & Co are really easy to use.
I had also spent like 6+ years working with UltraEdit so the convenience of a real IDE is really nice.
Then again, they really require that *you* do the thinking, which separates the rookies from the pros.

I'm an emacs die-hard also.  I still use emacs for most of my web development stuff but for Java, I've been a Netbeans fan for a long time.  Eclipse and Netbeans were the first IDEs that provided so much value for developing in a language (in this case Java) that I thought that it was better to use a specialist IDE for that language rather than my trusty emacs.  I prefer Netbeans, of the two - to me it's much simpler to set up projects and it doesn't suffer from plugin hell.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #29 - Posted 2011-02-01 22:56:11 »

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Eclipse isn't the reason I've ultimately stuck with Java all these years in the face of all the massive opposition from anyone in charge to getting my games out on consoles, Apple phones, etc.

Cas Smiley

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