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  Bottom of the barrel buck basic beginner needs advice  (Read 2371 times)
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Offline apchar

Junior Newbie





« Posted 2010-11-29 08:45:44 »

I've been using Java for ~10 years so I'm comfortable there but I have never done anything in 3D. I don't know where to begin! I've downloaded & installed jmonkey3 & blender but don't really know what to do with them. There are tutorials on specific elements of 3D game creation & the tools themselves but nothing outlining the whole process. What's a prospective Java 3D game programmer to do?  Huh Are there any good books or tutorials that begin at the beginning and end with a 3D character walking down a virtual road (or something) ?
Where do I learn the basics?
Offline gouessej
« Reply #1 - Posted 2010-11-29 14:00:38 »

Hi!

In my humble opinion, you should not start game programming directly in 3D and you should not start it by using a 3D engine, you should learn the basics first (input handling, artificial intelligence, graphics, ...). Writing a tiny 2D game by using your knowledge of Java (AWT, Swing) would be more reasonable as a first step. Then, you could learn to write more complicated games step by step.

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #2 - Posted 2010-12-01 00:27:56 »

JMonkey is a bad engine. Use Ardor3d instead.
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Offline fireside

Senior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2010-12-01 03:45:28 »

Blender takes a while.  Try Blender 3d noob to pro.  There are also a lot of good youtube videos on using Blender.  A 3d engine is kind of the same deal.  Start with importing a model and move slowly.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #4 - Posted 2010-12-01 20:09:35 »

JMonkey is a bad engine. Use Ardor3d instead.
I disagree. jMonkeyEngine is quite a good library.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 392
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2010-12-01 21:03:59 »

I started by just looking at the odd tutorial here and there (such as the NeHe ones) and doing extremely basic OpenGL code to make stuff work. I'm still a complete novice at it but it doesn't look too hard.

Cas Smiley

Offline Cero
« Reply #6 - Posted 2010-12-02 00:31:34 »

JMonkey is a bad engine.

lol... have you even looked at the latest stuff ?

Offline gouessej
« Reply #7 - Posted 2010-12-02 11:58:27 »

Hi!

I disagree. jMonkeyEngine is quite a good library.
JMonkeyEngine and Ardor3D have their weaknesses. I'm not as peremptory as CyanPrime but I have used and (contributed to) JMonkeyEngine 2.0, JMonkeyEngine 3.0 and Ardor3D, in my humble opinion Ardor3D has become the most reliable 3D engine written in Java and JMonkeyEngine has a strong community and lots of contributers. They are both equivalent in terms of features. Ardor3D uses its own UI library (Ardor3D UI) while JMonkeyEngine 3 uses Nifty GUI, both have a terrain feature, JMonkeyEngine has some sound support, a network API and a GDE whereas Ardor3D doesn't (it will arrive later), Ardor3D has a more mature support of Android whereas JMonkeyEngine tries to take up the slack, Ardor3D has 3 excellent OpenGL renderer whereas the JOGL renderers of JMonkeyEngine 2 & 3 are not as reliable as its Ardor3D equivalent despite my contributions, Ardor3D has lower minimal requirements whereas it is hardly possible to use JMonkeyEngine 3 with graphics cards without shader support. Renanse and MrCoder have made a great job and are very reactive when bugs are reported.

I don't say that JMonkeyEngine is bad but I won't use it in my projects anymore, I wasted so much time with it, I could be more angry than CyanPrime.

lol... have you even looked at the latest stuff ?
Its networking API seems quite simple to use. Its game development environment is promising.

apchar, I advise you to start by the beginning, keep it simple, do not jump directly into the 3D.

I'm still a complete novice at it but it doesn't look too hard.
You're not a novice or you're a novice who creates great games.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 392
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2010-12-02 12:48:00 »

I know next to nothing about 3D really :/ I'd really like to get started doing 3D games but the complexity is very daunting. Not just because 3D is all clever either - because 2D games like ours take a very long time to make because of all the detail. Chaz reckons in 3D we could do it a lot quicker.

Cas Smiley

Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 172
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #9 - Posted 2010-12-02 16:19:18 »

I've done quite a lot of both, there's not a lot of difference in terms of development cost really. Art-wise 3D is much cheaper.

But then I love 2D and always will.

Kev

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Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #10 - Posted 2010-12-04 03:37:40 »

I've done quite a lot of both, there's not a lot of difference in terms of development cost really. Art-wise 3D is much cheaper.

Really? In my experience, it highly depends on what you are doing. Sure, terrains can be very easy to make, but a fully animated character takes quite a long time to make in 3D. Depending on the perspective in the 2D game, it can range from quite simple to about as hard as in 3D.

But what do I know, I have only made one 3D game so far... Smiley

To the threadstarter:

Buy a book. Killer game programming in java is quite good for understanding basic game related topics, including 2D, 3D and basic AI. Do note that it covers Java 3D, not JME. The details are a bit different.

Start with something simple, in 2D.

Someone already suggested the excellent blender: from noob to pro. You don't have to go all the way through it.
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #11 - Posted 2010-12-04 13:09:49 »

It really depends on how quickly you want to get running and what you want to build. The first thing I ever built was the simple beginning of an FPS; this was using a high-level 3D engine and provided 3D modals and textures. That was with no prior programming experience. So I see no reason you can't write a 3D game first.

There is no reason why you can't learn using just OpenGL and build your own engine from scratch, or using an advanced 3D engine. But I would recommend using the simplest and most straight forward 3D engine you can find for Java, even if it's less powerful then the alternatives. You can switch later when you have more experience with using 3D.

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