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  Ok guys, Needing to start somewhere - books?  (Read 3225 times)
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Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2010-08-24 16:41:51 »

EDIT: (Kind of bump edit)
Will get a book next week, which one is the one to go with according to you?

Hey all  ([size=7pt]Lazy? - start reading under the bold words[/size])
My knowledge in Java is kind of basic and "newbie", but, as a project for school, I've decided to expand my knowledge, and create some kind of game.

To this project, we should spend about 160 hours (layed out during a half year) and do what we've decided.
Then we'll document it, write reports, what went good/bad etc.

Anyway, I've just begun, and need something to follow, so my question is:
I've looked all over the internet for online guides, there are some, but mostly about graphics in general.

I've found two books, "Killer game programming in java" and "Pro Java 6 3D Game Development" (Here http://fivedots.coe.psu.ac.th/~ad/jg2/ and here  http://fivedots.coe.psu.ac.th/~ad/jg/)
Does anyone have any experience of these books, and can recommend them?
Or do you have other books with guides where to begin java game programming?

THANK YOU very much in advance for answers

EDIT 30(29?)/8 (Also added a post lower down)
"Books I've read a little about:
Killer Game Programming in Java - Andrew Davison
Pro Java 6 3D Game Development - Andrew Davison
Developing Games in Java - David Brackeen"

"Books that I haven't read about yet:
Black Art of Java Game Programming - Joel Fan
Practical Java Game Programming - Dustin Clingman
Advanced Java Game Programming - David Wallace Croft
Beginning Java Game Programming Second Edition - Jonathan S. "

Are there more? Are these any good?

EDIT 3/9


I found a "new" book that is released in 2010, does anyone know anything about it?  Huh
"Introduction to Java Programming with Games - Ladd, B C"
Offline kappa
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2010-08-24 16:46:56 »

my favorite java games book is Developing Games in Java by David Brackeen and do highly recommend it.
Offline psychopat316

Junior Newbie





« Reply #2 - Posted 2010-08-24 19:33:25 »

I own "Killer game programming in java" and I recommend it.
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Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #3 - Posted 2010-08-24 20:56:34 »

I own both Brackeen's book and killer game programming. Both are good.

Brackeen talks about developing a specific game framework, threadpool, sprites animation a bit of networking and finally 3D. It gives you piece by piece until you have made a complete game designed  by Brackeen, first 2D and then 3D. If you want to know about how to implement a software 3D engine, this is the book for you (I didn't Smiley ).

Killer game programming is much more general. It talks about a multitude of techniques. You are given more pieces and more diverse pieces. They do not always fit togheter. More toolbox style. The 3D part deals with java 3d, not very up to date today. But the knowledge are mostly good as general 3D knowledge.
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #4 - Posted 2010-08-25 07:03:30 »

my favorite java games book is Developing Games in Java by David Brackeen and do highly recommend it.
Thanks! And it seems to be available here in Sweden also Smiley
I'll look into it and hope for more recommendations

I own "Killer game programming in java" and I recommend it.
Great, thanks Smiley

I own both Brackeen's book and killer game programming. Both are good.

Brackeen talks about developing a specific game framework, threadpool, sprites animation a bit of networking and finally 3D. It gives you piece by piece until you have made a complete game designed  by Brackeen, first 2D and then 3D. If you want to know about how to implement a software 3D engine, this is the book for you (I didn't Smiley ).

Killer game programming is much more general. It talks about a multitude of techniques. You are given more pieces and more diverse pieces. They do not always fit togheter. More toolbox style. The 3D part deals with java 3d, not very up to date today. But the knowledge are mostly good as general 3D knowledge.
What book is "Brackeens book", by googling I think you mean the one also recommended by psychopat316?
Overall, thank you very much for this explanation! But, would you recommend one for my project?
What type of game is the "end-product" in the Brackeens game - I mean - 2D/3D, game type etc?
Would you recommend Killer Game Programming for my use? Because it seems better for me - but also seems to take more time to work through?
But, thanks again for the explanations!

Overall, haven't anyone tried Pro Java 6 3D Game Development?

Thakns for answers until now at least! Smiley
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2010-08-25 09:13:31 »

'Brackeens book' == "Developing Games in Java by David Brackeen"

But to be honest, if your Java skills are only basic and 'newbie', maybe you should first brush up on those.
Or else using the books will only reduce you down to copy & pasting everything.

Because even without those books, you should be able to get something up and running.

A good java book I could recommend is Thinking in Java.
btw: are you German speaking? (I am assuming from the name). You could also check out "Java in 21 Tagen", it is available as an open book and a nice resource. (publisher is gallileo computing iirc)
Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #6 - Posted 2010-08-25 09:25:18 »

If I am going to pick any one book, it is "Killer game programming in java". It is both 2D and 3D and it is toolbox style, pick what you want, skip the rest (almost).

If you say you come from Sweden:
Du är händelsevis inte från Malmö eller däromkring?
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #7 - Posted 2010-08-25 09:36:44 »

'Brackeens book' == "Developing Games in Java by David Brackeen"

But to be honest, if your Java skills are only basic and 'newbie', maybe you should first brush up on those.
Or else using the books will only reduce you down to copy & pasting everything.

Because even without those books, you should be able to get something up and running.

A good java book I could recommend is Thinking in Java.
btw: are you German speaking? (I am assuming from the name). You could also check out "Java in 21 Tagen", it is available as an open book and a nice resource. (publisher is gallileo computing iirc)
Ok, the "basic/newbie" is what I'm assuming my knowledge to be, I mean, there are so much more to learn.
But I've went through "Programming A/B" (Half year each) here at this school, but still I do not believe it's a high level of knowledge.

Sorry if this sounds "arrogant" or something, but it'll be a java gaming book, mostly because books are expensive and our libaries around here aren't interested in books like these Smiley

Also, not german, Sweden here Smiley


If I am going to pick any one book, it is "Killer game programming in java". It is both 2D and 3D and it is toolbox style, pick what you want, skip the rest (almost).

If you say you come from Sweden:
Du är händelsevis inte från Malmö eller däromkring?
Blekinge, hur visste du det? Wink
(How are the rules here about not writing in English?)
Sounds good, again, maybe that book will be the one.. Wink

Still noone with experience of "Pro Java 6 3D Game Development"? I mean, it's a newer book from the same author as "Killer Game Programming in Java"

This thread got better response than I expected, thanks Smiley
But keep writing here, I probably won't order any book before next week.
Offline Cero
« Reply #8 - Posted 2010-08-25 16:07:22 »

Quote
I own both Brackeen's book and killer game programming. Both are good.

Seconded. Those would be my recommendations.

Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #9 - Posted 2010-08-25 19:03:37 »

Quote
Blekinge, hur visste du det?

Darn, a bit to far I think. I have both of my java game books at my old work in Malmö. Since I will never go there again, anyone willing to pick them up there can have them.
Malmö, southen sweden, pretty close to Copenhagen. Smiley
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2010-08-25 20:11:04 »

Seconded. Those would be my recommendations.
Noted, thanks Smiley

Darn, a bit to far I think. I have both of my java game books at my old work in Malmö. Since I will never go there again, anyone willing to pick them up there can have them.
Malmö, southen sweden, pretty close to Copenhagen. Smiley
I like the idea Smiley
Maybe, just maybe, I could get there.. Do you have any prices in mind?  Wink
And, if I went there, how would I find them if you aren't there?  Grin

(To many smileys, sorry  Roll Eyes )
Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #11 - Posted 2010-08-26 06:50:18 »

Quote
Maybe, just maybe, I could get there.. Do you have any prices in mind?

how about 50 sek each? But before you go, let me check that they are still there.
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2010-08-26 09:29:41 »

@Mattedatten@Books:
Thinking in java you can get in a downloadable form.
Also iirc the killer game java book is also available online in some form.
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #13 - Posted 2010-08-27 09:39:37 »

how about 50 sek each? But before you go, let me check that they are still there.
I asked around and it seems like I cannot get to Malmö, sorry  Undecided
Do you have any way to send the book(s) (Which one was the second book?)
I can send the "payment" in some way  Grin

@Mattedatten@Books:
Thinking in java you can get in a downloadable form.
Also iirc the killer game java book is also available online in some form.
You mean killer game programming in java?
Lets say it like this ... the book is available "illegaly", I've thought about downloading it to check it out .. But, reading a .pdf on a screen is worthless, really..  Wink  Roll Eyes
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2010-08-27 10:19:40 »

I asked around and it seems like I cannot get to Malmö, sorry  Undecided
Do you have any way to send the book(s) (Which one was the second book?)
I can send the "payment" in some way  Grin
Are we still talking about books? Wink
But can't Amazon help you?

Quote
You mean killer game programming in java?
Lets say it like this ... the book is available "illegaly", I've thought about downloading it to check it out .. But, reading a .pdf on a screen is worthless, really..  Wink  Roll Eyes
No, if you check the site it does contain the contents of the book, more or less.
Might not be much, but hey, it's free and can hold you over till you get the book.
Offline markus.borbely

Junior Member





« Reply #15 - Posted 2010-08-27 21:05:23 »

Quote
I asked around and it seems like I cannot get to Malmö, sorry
Do you have any way to send the book(s)

I'm afraid not. It would be cheaper for me to buy the books new than to go there and get them.

Quote
Are we still talking about books? Wink
But can't Amazon help you?

I'm offering to sell mine for 50 SEK = $8. Cheaper than amazon, don't you think? Smiley ($38 and $41 plus shipping)
We usually pay lots for shipping to Sweden.
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #16 - Posted 2010-08-27 21:14:04 »

I'm afraid not. It would be cheaper for me to buy the books new than to go there and get them.
Hm, too bad  Undecided
Anyway, thanks for trying..
What book(s) did you offer? Because we are going to "east skåne" (Vi ska till Ivö) tommorrow .. but, probably to little time to plan something .. or is it? Smiley


We usually pay lots for shipping to Sweden.
So true  Sad
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #17 - Posted 2010-08-30 00:15:26 »

Sorry for double-posting
But I felt like I needed a "bump", and I'll also add some facts..
(I could say tomorrow, but, so everyone will know)
In about 12 hours the teachers should have told me if my project gets "green light"
If it goes that way, I'll start doing some research about the different books.. Because I can only afford one .. Maybe two if the second one is badly needed  Roll Eyes

Anyway, here is a list of the books I've got right now listed as "Java gaming books", and I haven't checked the availability of these in Sweden, nor listed them in any specific order other than:

"Books I've read a little about:
Killer Game Programming in Java - Andrew Davison
Pro Java 6 3D Game Development - Andrew Davison
Developing Games in Java - David Brackeen"

And "Books that I haven't read about yet:
Black Art of Java Game Programming - Joel Fan
Practical Java Game Programming - Dustin Clingman
Advanced Java Game Programming - David Wallace Croft
Beginning Java Game Programming Second Edition - Jonathan S. "

Are there more? Are these any good?
All help until now and during the next week is very appreciated  Wink
//M
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #18 - Posted 2010-09-01 17:09:17 »

Trying to bump a last time
I've got green light to start, and I'm buying a book next week
Which one to go with? Roll Eyes
Offline Karmington

Senior Member


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« Reply #19 - Posted 2010-09-01 18:37:01 »

Short-term : the one in which an example complete game is similar to the one you want to do.

Long-term : the one with the most diverse range of subjects, and least platform specific OR totally problem specific.

I find Ive bought quite a few code books but they were more useful in the days before the internetz.
Now they are all semi-obsolete, for example DirectX7 specific books. They make great doorstops.
But yeah, they did their part in helping out to advance. The more theoretical ones are often the ones
I end up returning to, ones which dont care what language youre using, and which have often been too
hard to even understand half of. In the end it's you making the things tick the way you want is where you learn the most.

Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #20 - Posted 2010-09-03 09:17:45 »

Short-term : the one in which an example complete game is similar to the one you want to do.
That's not that easy for me, right now I do not have any idea what game type to make, mostly because I've got no idea where I will be in a half year (counting in knowledge)

Long-term : the one with the most diverse range of subjects, and least platform specific OR totally problem specific.

I find Ive bought quite a few code books but they were more useful in the days before the internetz.
Now they are all semi-obsolete, for example DirectX7 specific books. They make great doorstops.
But yeah, they did their part in helping out to advance. The more theoretical ones are often the ones
I end up returning to, ones which dont care what language youre using, and which have often been too
hard to even understand half of. In the end it's you making the things tick the way you want is where you learn the most.

I've also thought like that, but a book is easier to follow. I mean, I've subscibed to numerous guides on (for example) youtube, that I'll use. But I'd also like (or prefer) a book, it's simply easier to learn from according to me  Wink

Thanks for a answer
I think I'll choose book on Monday/Tuesday next week (Monday morning do we meet with the teachers and discuss how our work is going)

I hope for at least one more answer still  Roll Eyes
It seems like there aren't any good comparisons "up-to-date" with the books mentioned..

So I rely a little on people responses here Smiley

EDIT:
As I said, I found another book today, from 2010, "Introduction to Java Programming with Games - Ladd, B C", does anyone know anything?  Undecided
Offline dime

Senior Newbie





« Reply #21 - Posted 2010-09-05 07:35:11 »

I'm a hobbyist game programmer.  I found this book probably most helpful: Java-How-Program -Harvey-Deitel

Killer Game Programming in Java is ok.
I really like the concepts and him explaining them.  I didn't like the code examples and stuff like that.
Also lots of the book seemed like cheap filler.  He has a chapter on "Networking for games", but it's really weak.
He creates a very basic text client/server and some how that is considered "Killer Game Programming" to him?
It would of been a lot better if he just explained concepts and "common problems" with networking in games.  Like how to deal with lag in a real time games or never trust to client, verify on server, etc, etc.  Tons of things he could of talked about, but instead he went with a very basic example of sending text over the wire.
I also forgot what, but remember that something in the audio chapters also bugged me too.

I wasn't to found of the graphics stuff either.  The book seemed dated when I read it a year or two ago.  Again, if he would of just stuck with concepts it would of been good; but he went with these awkward examples of using outdated and really slow graphics libraries to load sprites, etc.
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #22 - Posted 2010-09-05 14:36:24 »

I'm a hobbyist game programmer.  I found this book probably most helpful: Java-How-Program -Harvey-Deitel

Killer Game Programming in Java is ok.
I really like the concepts and him explaining them.  I didn't like the code examples and stuff like that.
Also lots of the book seemed like cheap filler.  He has a chapter on "Networking for games", but it's really weak.
He creates a very basic text client/server and some how that is considered "Killer Game Programming" to him?
It would of been a lot better if he just explained concepts and "common problems" with networking in games.  Like how to deal with lag in a real time games or never trust to client, verify on server, etc, etc.  Tons of things he could of talked about, but instead he went with a very basic example of sending text over the wire.
I also forgot what, but remember that something in the audio chapters also bugged me too.

I wasn't to found of the graphics stuff either.  The book seemed dated when I read it a year or two ago.  Again, if he would of just stuck with concepts it would of been good; but he went with these awkward examples of using outdated and really slow graphics libraries to load sprites, etc.

Hmm, the release date of that book keeps me from beein 100% sure that it's the best one..  Roll Eyes
The question stands then, if I was to choose one book, just one
Would it be some of them listed above, or, the 2010 one (which I think most positive about now, because, after all, it's new)

A preview of "Introductory Programming with Simple Games" (The book that I call the "2010 book") is available at google books, can anyone with knowledge or experience give it a look?  Wink
http://books.google.se/books?id=EMuxvH65pW8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Introduction+to+Java+Programming+with+Games+review&source=bl&ots=i4GY8zU3vB&sig=UuAOH6wOm6iMYwixOI-bDQoq1qQ&hl=sv&ei=P42DTK6aC4yQOM-i9f8N&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Offline Mattedatten

Senior Newbie





« Reply #23 - Posted 2010-09-07 11:59:42 »

Dam'
I'll get myself banned here  Roll Eyes
I've still not chosen book
I've contacted my libaries here, to check if they can get any of the books
It's down to three now:
Killer Game Programming in Java - Andrew Davison | ISBN: 0596007302
Introductory Programming with Simple Games: Using Java and the Freely Available Networked Gaming Engine - Ladd, B C | ISBN: 0470212845
Developing Games in Java - David Brackeen | ISBN: 1592730051

I have no idea, I can afford, at best, 2 of them.

Sorry for spamming your forum like this, but I'd like to get started, and don't know where  persecutioncomplex

Ehm', can anyone recommend anything? Last chance kind of, and then you'll get rid of me for a while  Grin


Killer game programming in Java - Preview
Introductory Programming with Simple Games: Using Java and the Freely Available Networked Gaming Engine - Preview
Developing Games in Java - Preview
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #24 - Posted 2010-09-08 09:48:21 »

Davison & Brackeen

Sure, they might not be perfect, but what book really is?
A book should never do everything for you, but show you how stuff could be done.

I have like 7 or so game dev books at home and so far have never just copied out code (ok, the code for reading md3 iirc files I did just copy).
If you just copy down, you only learn how to copy.

oh btw:
If you are looking for other resources, gamdev.net is a really good place to start.
Nehe is one of THE places to go for OpenGL stuff.
Also gamasutra.com has some good articles.
Offline xoria

Junior Newbie





« Reply #25 - Posted 2010-09-17 12:22:36 »

my favorite java games book is Developing Games in Java by David Brackeen and do highly recommend it.



I have also heard alot of good things about that book..    http://www.brackeen.com/javagamebook/
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