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  AAAAaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!  (Read 2866 times)
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Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Posted 2010-04-25 17:02:03 »

AAAAaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Sorry, wasn't sure who to vent at with my Java game development frustrations. If I can't share with you fine folks, who can I?

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 361
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2010-04-25 22:15:00 »

Hmmm, what's up eh?

Cas Smiley

Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #2 - Posted 2010-04-25 22:30:00 »

Just the usual:

Java politics, Oracle politics, software patents, Apple politics, lack of world peace, feature creep in my latest game design, Intel graphics drivers, lack of respect for being a Java developer, and so on.

Sometimes, you just gotta scream at someone who you know can understand you.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 361
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #3 - Posted 2010-04-26 07:49:20 »

Ah yes, I know that scream.

Cas Smiley

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #4 - Posted 2010-04-26 16:42:22 »

Ah yes, I know that scream.

Cas Smiley
Me as well. I was considering just abandoning Java game development recently until I did the LD over the weekend. Then I remembered how much more I like Java than anything else. I suppose I'm stuck. :/

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline rouncer

Junior Member





« Reply #5 - Posted 2010-04-26 16:55:58 »

whats more annoying is if your used to c and then code some java (for just about your first time), lots of frustrating things happen during this process.
Its not that I hate java tho, its a cool language... but java is "similar" to c, it is NOT the "same" as the c.
It means I have to read tonnes of books where I know just about everything just to get the small differences... boring.

Having to relearn file access( ARRARHARHAHRAHRAHRARHARHR), keyboard and mouse input (got that eventually), basic screen rastering (that wasnt so bad.)
Ive basicly taken a level 15 c warrior to a level 1 newbie java programmer, and its frustrating to say the least.

I cant wait till I finally get to networking, and thats gonna be a NIGHTMARE.
Offline teletubo
« League of Dukes »

JGO Ninja


Medals: 48
Projects: 4
Exp: 8 years



« Reply #6 - Posted 2010-04-26 17:17:00 »

whats more annoying is if your used to c and then code some java (for just about your first time), lots of frustrating things happen during this process.
Its not that I hate java tho, its a cool language... but java is "similar" to c, it is NOT the "same" as the c.
It means I have to read tonnes of books where I know just about everything just to get the small differences... boring.

Having to relearn file access( ARRARHARHAHRAHRAHRARHARHR), keyboard and mouse input (got that eventually), basic screen rastering (that wasnt so bad.)
Ive basicly taken a level 15 c warrior to a level 1 newbie java programmer, and its frustrating to say the least.

I cant wait till I finally get to networking, and thats gonna be a NIGHTMARE.

Can you clarify what is your main purpose on learning Java ? Because since you started posting, it seems you hate Java and hate learning it .
I think you should either accept that Java is not C and read a decent book, or just stick to C .

Offline rouncer

Junior Member





« Reply #7 - Posted 2010-04-26 17:20:38 »

Can you clarify what is your main purpose on learning Java ? Because since you started posting, it seems you hate Java and hate learning it .
I think you should either accept that Java is not C and read a decent book, or just stick to C .

Im learning because I want to make a browser game, and java is a way to do it. And to broaden my language literacy, sorry if I sound like im complaining,
really im having a good time. Smiley
Just think back to when you didnt know how to use java properly when you were first starting, cause thats where I am right now, asking all sorts of basic
stupid questions.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #8 - Posted 2010-04-26 17:29:43 »

Im learning because I want to make a browser game, and java is a way to do it. And to broaden my language literacy, sorry if I sound like im complaining,
really im having a good time. Smiley
Just think back to when you didnt know how to use java properly when you were first starting, cause thats where I am right now, asking all sorts of basic
stupid questions.
I understand what you're saying. Any time I learn a new language I feel like an idiot for a week and it takes me a year to get to be as good as I was in a different language. But it's the way of things. At least Java is structured like C. I am learning Ruby on Rails right now which is proving pretty frustrating just because the syntax is so different.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline DzzD
« Reply #9 - Posted 2010-04-26 18:06:35 »

Quote
I cant wait till I finally get to networking, and thats gonna be a NIGHTMARE
dont worry, network is basically the same as a lot of other languages like PHP / C++ / C  / etc... and java is not an exception, you will have Sockets ! and with nearly the same functionalities that you got in others languages

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Roquen
« Reply #10 - Posted 2010-04-27 13:31:10 »

feature creep in my latest game design

Be happy: at least you have some control over this one.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #11 - Posted 2010-04-27 18:19:02 »

I used Java for my latest LD entry and so far 50% of users have been unable to run it. Nice!

I am (honestly) probably going to use Flash or Unity the next time I enter. This is because I always spend way too much time on deployment (if you're using OpenGL, it's a huge pain in the ass) and because of worrying about people not being able to run it. Also Flash and Unity have much better content creation tools (as in, they have any at all). Java's not great for rapid prototyping.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline DzzD
« Reply #12 - Posted 2010-04-27 18:28:02 »

I used Java for my latest LD entry and so far 50% of users have been unable to run it. Nice!
what was your requiered java version ?

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 361
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #13 - Posted 2010-04-27 19:23:42 »

Markus seems to be doing perfectly well with Java. And OpenGL too. LD players might consider trying to keep their systems vaguely up-to-date eh?

There are, of course, a few tricks to remember to do. But you only need to figure that out once.

Cas Smiley

Offline Gudradain
« Reply #14 - Posted 2010-04-27 20:24:04 »

I used Java for my latest LD entry and so far 50% of users have been unable to run it. Nice!

I'm unable to run it but it's just because I can't run OpenGL. There might be a few person like me around.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #15 - Posted 2010-04-27 21:07:26 »

Markus seems to be doing perfectly well with Java. And OpenGL too. LD players might consider trying to keep their systems vaguely up-to-date eh?

There are, of course, a few tricks to remember to do. But you only need to figure that out once.

Cas Smiley
Yeah, I haven't had this problem before, but now it's happening. I'm not sure if I forgot to do something here, but it was only Java 1.5.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline arielsan
« Reply #16 - Posted 2010-04-28 02:52:28 »

I used Java for my latest LD entry and so far 50% of users have been unable to run it. Nice!

I am (honestly) probably going to use Flash or Unity the next time I enter. This is because I always spend way too much time on deployment (if you're using OpenGL, it's a huge pain in the ass) and because of worrying about people not being able to run it. Also Flash and Unity have much better content creation tools (as in, they have any at all). Java's not great for rapid prototyping.

I didn't agree with "This is because I always spend way too much time on deployment (if you're using OpenGL, it's a huge pain in the ass)", in my company we are using jnlp for applets and webstart and all the build, signing and deployment is automated (we are using hudson) and that is very pleasant. I think everybody probably have deployment problems in every languages but there are tools to use.

Sadly, one believes in java crossplatform, but it doesn't exists Sad , same thing happened to me with my LD entry, some people with mac and win7 couldn't play it.

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #17 - Posted 2010-04-28 04:31:57 »

I didn't agree with "This is because I always spend way too much time on deployment (if you're using OpenGL, it's a huge pain in the ass)", in my company we are using jnlp for applets and webstart and all the build, signing and deployment is automated (we are using hudson) and that is very pleasant. I think everybody probably have deployment problems in every languages but there are tools to use.

Sadly, one believes in java crossplatform, but it doesn't exists Sad , same thing happened to me with my LD entry, some people with mac and win7 couldn't play it.

Automated build systems are badass. I'm experiencing them for the first time with my company after manually building for iPhone for a year (which is the biggest pain in the ass deployment system ever), and holy god is it amazing.

I'm not surprised you're enjoying those sorts of benefits with Java as well.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #18 - Posted 2010-04-28 14:23:04 »

Quote
Sadly, one believes in java crossplatform, but it doesn't exist

One of the reasons I actually stick with Java is because I have an ANT system all setup that compiles and then builds packages for every platform in a single run. It took me quite a while to put it all together, but now that I have it, it's wonderful! I tried putting something similar together with C++ but failed miserably. I was either out of steam (and mental prowess) from doing it once with Java already, or it was just inordinately more difficult.



Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #19 - Posted 2010-04-28 20:21:20 »

Quote
Java politics, Oracle politics, software patents, Apple politics, lack of world peace, feature creep in my latest game design, Intel graphics drivers, lack of respect for being a Java developer, and so on.

Every year I'm seriously considering ditching java at least once.
For some reason, every time I come back to java where everything seems to make the most sense (not that it's perfect or anything, far from it).
I think it's good to keep looking around and learn other stuff so it's no wasted time, but java is still my favourite language.

But yeah, I'm worried about Oracle politics (Sun, Gosling, ChrisM et all were like the 'soul' of java(-gaming) and now that all seems to be gone). And sometimes I'm worried about java's future and I'm still in some kind of 'writers block' for games. So yes, I know that kind of scream too...

Offline gouessej
« Reply #20 - Posted 2010-04-29 10:47:40 »

if you're using OpenGL, it's a huge pain in the ass
Therefore I like such a pain  Grin because I have had only a few problems of deployment during more than 3 years and of course I don't use applets.

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