Java-Gaming.org Hi !
Featured games (83)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (513)
Games in Android Showcase (120)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (577)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  JSR 231  (Read 3851 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline abies

Senior Duke





« Posted 2003-10-07 16:59:30 »

How it is related to jogl ? Is it based on jogl, with a bit of cleanup in few places, or totally new project ?

Any chances of having entire java-gaming.org community promoted to 'expert' status ?  Wink Or at least having one person from Sun who would sneak some info out of expert group, posting interesting problems for discussion here ?

Link for JSR: http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=231

Artur Biesiadowski
Offline shawnkendall

Senior Duke





« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-10-07 17:22:45 »

2.11 Please describe the anticipated schedule for the development of this specification.

First Draft: January 2004
Public Review: March 2004
Final Draft: May 2004

Damn, gonna be awhile...

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-10-07 17:26:51 »

Quote
2.4 Why isn't this need met by existing specifications?

There is an existing 3D API for Java, called Java 3D... [snip]


Hmm.. are they even aware of the existance of Jogl? Surely the organisation within Sun can't be that bad..

On the other hand, I don't see any familiar names on there, and you'd have thought that they'd mention Jogl *somewhere* in there. Difficult to imagine them wanting to start over completely, yet their implementation description starts from scratch. Nothing mentioned in the section about depreciating other APIs either.

They also metion OpenGL 1.5 spec to be confirmed Dec 2003. Isn't this already out? Could this just have been written ages ago and only now surfacing?

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-10-07 17:27:48 »

And it says it's going to be a separate download. Damn. =/

Play Minecraft!
Offline selendic

Junior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-10-07 18:11:08 »

Uhm, they confused me now. Isn't that third OpenGL API from Sun this year? (OSS JOGL, Java2D in Tiger with internal one, and tih 231 official one). Can someone from Sun clarify? Some of those will be merged somewhere in future, I hope.
Offline GKW

Senior Duke




Revenge is mine!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-10-07 18:53:27 »

Tiger isn't supposed to be out until the summer anyway.  Compared to other jsr's this seems to be on a fast track.
Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-10-07 19:25:54 »

There's also the OpenGL that Sun and SGI announced earlier this year - or is this it?  SGI aren't in a lead role, so I guess not.

So that's four OpenGL APIs from Sun this year? Huh

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-10-07 19:45:33 »

The organization within Sun IS that bad. Read my notes on the Sun Network Conference. As I was talking to people at the conference from Sun, some even demoing graphics technology - NONE of them were aware of the Java Gaming Initiative APIs.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline moorej

Senior Newbie




Mmmm Lasagna....


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-10-07 22:45:37 »

  I have a close relationship with people from SGI and am working on getting some of these pieces of information together.  Right now it is very hush hush all around.  I hope that the Java community can come together and figure this out.  I am trying to make contributions on a personal basis to JOGL, but will eventually move to whatever "standard" there is for Java/OpenGL bindings.

-moorej
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-10-10 14:50:15 »

Quote
The organization within Sun IS that bad. Read my notes on the Sun Network Conference. As I was talking to people at the conference from Sun, some even demoing graphics technology - NONE of them were aware of the Java Gaming Initiative APIs.


What's sad is that it is so easy for us to see it from the outside.  Maybe we could be on Sun's payroll to point out areas where they can avoid doing duplicate work Smiley.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-10-10 15:46:05 »

Quote
Right now it is very hush hush all around.  I hope that the Java community can come together and figure this out.


Hmm.. the big question is, why so secretive? Its not like this is some new revolutionary technology here, its 'just' allowing programmers to access and existing API. Jogl etc. were produced in complete secrecy, and what did it gain them? A whole heap of buggy work to start with, missing platform support and a various other glitches (thankfully getting slowly ironed out now Grin ).

I fail to see the need to keep all this stuff hidden, especially when it has the ability to swing from successful to neglected depending on the communities use & reaction to it..

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-10-13 03:55:39 »

Quote


Hmm.. the big question is, why so secretive?


Because it's more fun that way Smiley

Will.

Offline Jens

Senior Duke




Java for games!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-10-13 07:24:41 »

Jogl/Joal/JInput are all open source, which means that there is no need to switch to the "newest" OpenGL implementation.

I would really like a future, where Java is completely open source (OpenOffice shows that it's possible). I am not an insider, but it looks like Sun isn't able to manage it properly anymore. If Sun isn't even aware of the Javagaming Initiative how can they advertise it to others? How can they make Java a gaming language if they don't know their own APIs?

Xith3D Getting Started Guide (PDF,HTML,Source)
Offline dtwilleager

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-10-13 14:00:10 »

Okay, relax everyone.  The games group is the group responsible for all of these actvities.  The intent is that this JSR starts with JOGL, and modifies as nessesary.  Becausr of the way the JCP works, you can't force anything on a JSR, so it could not be submitted as such.  There is no mass disorganization at Sun.  This is the result of the agreement between SGI and Sun.  SGI decided not to join the JCP, but will be involved - at a minimum through their involvement in the OpenGL ARB.

There is a focused strategy to all this - even though it sometimes is confusing.  Sun does not have lots of money to go around doing competing initiatives.  We are all focued on the same things.  Having said that, Sun is still a big company, so some people in the company may not know what others are doing.  That is not the case for any of the graphics technologies today.

Doug.
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-10-13 14:27:11 »

Quote
Okay, relax everyone.  The games group is the group responsible for all of these actvities.  The intent is that this JSR starts with JOGL, and modifies as nessesary.  Becausr of the way the JCP works, you can't force anything on a JSR, so it could not be submitted as such.


Then why not just focus the scope of the existing JSRs. Why are there pretty much 3 expert groups working on the separate JSRs? If SGI wants to go and work on their own, fine  - no biggie; but I still don't see any reason for JSR231. Where is this JSR going to diverge from the already existing JSR...s.


Quote

There is a focused strategy to all this - even though it sometimes is confusing.  Sun does not have lots of money to go around doing competing initiatives.  We are all focued on the same things.  Having said that, Sun is still a big company, so some people in the company may not know what others are doing.  That is not the case for any of the graphics technologies today.

Doug.


While there may not be any specific disorganization within Sun (though as an outsider talking to folks working at sun and in sun research I just can't understand why certain groups are unaware of these JSRs), the impression that is definitely coming from these proceedings is one of confusion and duplication.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline dtwilleager

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-10-13 15:38:35 »

Quote


Then why not just focus the scope of the existing JSRs. Why are there pretty much 3 expert groups working on the separate JSRs? If SGI wants to go and work on their own, fine  - no biggie; but I still don't see any reason for JSR231. Where is this JSR going to diverge from the already existing JSR...s.



While there may not be any specific disorganization within Sun (though as an outsider talking to folks working at sun and in sun research I just can't understand why certain groups are unaware of these JSRs), the impression that is definitely coming from these proceedings is one of confusion and duplication.


There are no other JSR's for this activity.  There is only one JSR for Java bindings for OpenGL - 231.  SGI is not doing their own thing.  We are all working together.  I don't know where the impression came from that everyone is doing their own thing.

As I said, Sun is a big company.  JSR's do not become compleetly public until they are filed.  I don't know who you have been taling with, but it would not suprise me if some project off in a corner did not know what the games group is doing - we are only 6 months old.
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-10-14 00:00:22 »

Quote


There are no other JSR's for this activity.  There is only one JSR for Java bindings for OpenGL - 231.  SGI is not doing their own thing.  We are all working together.  I don't know where the impression came from that everyone is doing their own thing.

As I said, Sun is a big company.  JSR's do not become compleetly public until they are filed.  I don't know who you have been taling with, but it would not suprise me if some project off in a corner did not know what the games group is doing - we are only 6 months old.


Okay. So if I understand you correctly the J2ME OpenGL JSR, the JGI JSR and this new JSR 231 are the same thing or at least the same set of people?

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-10-14 14:32:09 »

Quote

As I said, Sun is a big company.  JSR's do not become compleetly public until they are filed.  I don't know who you have been taling with, but it would not suprise me if some project off in a corner did not know what the games group is doing - we are only 6 months old.


I was talking to the hardware group - they are actively trying to sell graphics workstations and showing cool demos of those hardware platforms doing nice stuff in OpenGL. Since I know for sure that they sell into the government which uses these things for government simulation and training - it would be nice if they knew there was a Java solution already in place.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline dtwilleager

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2003-10-14 15:43:26 »

Quote


Okay. So if I understand you correctly the J2ME OpenGL JSR, the JGI JSR and this new JSR 231 are the same thing or at least the same set of people?


There is no J2ME OpenGL JSR.  JSR-184 is the only 3D JSR for J2ME, and it is a high level scene graph API.  I am involved in that.  The JGI JSR is now cancelled, as it states on its page.  Those technologies are making there way to java.net.  I am involved in that.  And, 231 - which is the only JSR related to OpenGL has just been filed.  And yes, I am involved in that as well.

I work in the software CTO office.  I am the chief architect of the games group, and I am also focused on graphics strategies at Sun.  So, it is my job to know and help drive all of these activities.  I am very aware that lack of information is the biggest reason for all of this confusion.  I hope that we can make things a little more transparent, so some of the confusion can go away.
Offline dtwilleager

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2003-10-14 15:45:26 »

Quote


I was talking to the hardware group - they are actively trying to sell graphics workstations and showing cool demos of those hardware platforms doing nice stuff in OpenGL. Since I know for sure that they sell into the government which uses these things for government simulation and training - it would be nice if they knew there was a Java solution already in place.


I used to work in that group, and they definitely know what is going on.  The problem is that most markets that they are working in do not currently use Java for their graphics applications.  Some are moving in that direction, but they are not there yet.  So, Java graphcis rendering is not at the top of their list of priorities.
Offline djp

Junior Duke





« Reply #20 - Posted 2003-10-14 15:52:03 »

What "J2ME OpenGL JSR"  are you talking about? 184?  JSR 184 is a scenegraph API for mobile devices.  It does not cover the underlying low level graphics API.

The JGI JSR?  Not sure what that is - JSR 231 is going to start with JOGL.

As far as the graphics hardware team - a few of us in the games group game from that side of the world and are in constant contact with them - they know what is going on.

While Sun is a big company we are not as disjoint as you may think.  Smiley

d
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #21 - Posted 2003-10-14 16:58:18 »

Cool... don't know the gentlemen whom I spoke with at Sun Network but they had no knowledge of this project - so that's where I draw my information from... walking up to Sun people and acting like a customer for the solutions that I'm developing and seeing what they say.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline dtwilleager

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2003-10-14 17:43:01 »

Quote
Cool... don't know the gentlemen whom I spoke with at Sun Network but they had no knowledge of this project - so that's where I draw my information from... walking up to Sun people and acting like a customer for the solutions that I'm developing and seeing what they say.


Keep doing it.  And that goes for everyone here.  Customer requests and needs have much greater weight than the ranting and raving of people who are on the inside.   Wink
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

Longarmx (52 views)
2014-10-17 03:59:02

Norakomi (43 views)
2014-10-16 15:22:06

Norakomi (33 views)
2014-10-16 15:20:20

lcass (37 views)
2014-10-15 16:18:58

TehJavaDev (68 views)
2014-10-14 00:39:48

TehJavaDev (66 views)
2014-10-14 00:35:47

TehJavaDev (59 views)
2014-10-14 00:32:37

BurntPizza (73 views)
2014-10-11 23:24:42

BurntPizza (45 views)
2014-10-11 23:10:45

BurntPizza (86 views)
2014-10-11 22:30:10
Understanding relations between setOrigin, setScale and setPosition in libGdx
by mbabuskov
2014-10-09 22:35:00

Definite guide to supporting multiple device resolutions on Android (2014)
by mbabuskov
2014-10-02 22:36:02

List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!