Java-Gaming.org Hi !
Featured games (83)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (516)
Games in Android Showcase (122)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (577)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
  My Experience with Flash  (Read 4340 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline Xyle
« Posted 2010-01-24 07:25:23 »

I recently dived into flash after a Sun Forums incident and tried it out. I did like the GUI and the easy to use implementation of objects. The actionscript code was easy to understand and it was pretty easy to deploy a new game I made called Sky Falcon of WWII hosted on my YellzBellz site.

In conclusion though, I definitely favor Java and of course the applets. I found Flash to be somewhat a beginner setup and it being originally made just for animation made me understand that. Its more of a general tool that can be used to quickly make simple games as where Java can be used to make some really complex and intricate games that can be deployed in different enviroments or as stand alone games.

I think I will be sticking with Java and again would like to thank this community for all the help and support where the dudes at Sun.Java forums are a bit High on themselves, lol.

Life is just a game, learn to play!
------------------------------------------
╬-YellzBellz Games!-╬ Cheesy
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 409
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2010-01-24 09:42:45 »

Don't discount Flash until you look at what it's really capable of.
Just remember, that runs pretty much everywhere, flawlessly, and painlessly.

Cas Smiley

Offline indexunknown

Junior Duke





« Reply #2 - Posted 2010-01-24 10:06:59 »

Yea and while you are at it look at Unity3D having shader and post processing effects built in and also just simply playable in a browser with no permission for using graphics card from user.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Nate

JGO Kernel


Medals: 153
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #3 - Posted 2010-01-24 10:25:12 »

Maybe that is the way to go, build browser plugins for LWJGL so the hardware access doesn't require a prompt, while keep the rest of the Java permissions in tact (but with a better damn dialog of course).

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 409
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2010-01-24 11:41:35 »

Building a browser plugin for LWJGL would indeed be a really Neat Thing.

Comparing Java to Unity3D isn't really fair - you still have to install a plugin first and it still asks you if you want to do so with a scary dialog. The same goes for a LWJGL applet, although if you use the LWJGL as an "extension" users will only have to do it once, ever.

Cas Smiley

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 78
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #5 - Posted 2010-01-24 12:09:12 »

already looking into getting LWJGL working as an extension, if it works well we should have that up soon. Not sure if the lwjgl server will be too happy about everybody leeching the jars from it. Since extension stuff must use the same url.

also the extension stuff is only java 1.6.0_18+, awesome jre release but will take a few months to become widespread.
Offline JavaMan2

Senior Newbie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2010-01-24 13:27:22 »

LWGL plug-in would be fantastic. I think that would make for some truly awesome Java applets, plus a plug-in could be used in JNLP for desktop games.  Grin Grin Grin Grin

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"~Albert Einstein
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 409
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2010-01-24 15:34:14 »

The LWJGL server uses hardly any bandwidth.

Cas Smiley

Offline elias4444

Junior Duke





« Reply #8 - Posted 2010-01-24 17:58:56 »

Quote
Don't discount Flash until you look at what it's really capable of.
Their games are amazing. Although I consider them more of the exception than the rule. Few Flash developers show that kind of polish with their products.

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 78
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #9 - Posted 2010-01-24 18:18:14 »

Their games are amazing. Although I consider them more of the exception than the rule. Few Flash developers show that kind of polish with their products.

guess you could say the same about java developers.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #10 - Posted 2010-01-25 02:30:50 »

Their games are amazing. Although I consider them more of the exception than the rule. Few Flash developers show that kind of polish with their products.


You don't really NEED to polish flash games.. When companies look for what to sponsor, their top priority most certainly is not polish.

Make fun games, people, not pretty games.

Play Minecraft!
Offline elias4444

Junior Duke





« Reply #11 - Posted 2010-01-25 02:55:49 »

Quote
Make fun games, people, not pretty games.
In my mind... polished = fun. I don't mean super graphics or perfect engines. What I mean is a game that is overall shiny: smooth play, few to no bugs, and fun. I've played several Flash games that are just a pain to control, or are entirely buggy.

Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #12 - Posted 2010-01-25 10:08:40 »

http://www.flashgamelicense.com/report_recent_gamesales.php

Play Minecraft!
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #13 - Posted 2010-01-25 15:11:14 »

Don't discount Flash until you look at what it's really capable of.
Just remember, that runs pretty much everywhere, flawlessly, and painlessly.

Cas Smiley
Have you used Flash, though? You really need to work to finagle any sort of niceness our of it. Flash Actionscript is not a programmer's language, it's an artist's language.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 409
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2010-01-25 15:34:18 »

You only have to figure it out once though, then you've got an "engine". Which is what the Rock Solid guys have done.

Cas Smiley

Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #15 - Posted 2010-01-25 15:37:41 »

dangit princec, you just stole 30 minutes of time witht that link lol!!
Offline Mr. Gol

Senior Duke


Medals: 1



« Reply #16 - Posted 2010-01-25 15:40:55 »

Flash Actionscript is not a programmer's language, it's an artist's language.

Have you used ActionScript 3? It has classes, interfaces, packages/namespaces, static typing, properties, closures and an event listener concept all built in. I would say it's far less of an "artist's language" than something like JavaScript.
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #17 - Posted 2010-01-25 15:57:29 »

For me, I think what can scare normal/average players is the fact that not all Java games load smoothly. Sometimes the JRE load just fast, sometimes the browser freezes for 5 to 10 secs or so. I mean, you NEVER see that kind of frustrating aspect with flash games. When a flash game takes time to load, you always see a nice progress bar, which displays smoothly. With Java, it often happens that you have that crappy Java logo by default at start - which I think you can't be remove (but I might be wrong) - then the game load, and once loaded, the browser seems to freeze for a couple a secs then the game gives feedback. Even with JRE 6u18, you still see that kind of crappy user experience. I'm so pissed of that situation. Can we hope for better in Java 7?

Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #18 - Posted 2010-01-25 16:12:56 »

you can change it

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/splashscreen.html
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #19 - Posted 2010-01-25 16:20:08 »

Yes that helps but I think the game loading experience issue goes beyond that.

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #20 - Posted 2010-01-25 16:32:06 »

I agree with most of those who have said this already, Flashes real advantage is that it consistently works. If I'm running an old version of Flash it will tell me and offer to update. If I am running an old version of Java then the applet will crash making me think that your game doesn't work (when it's actually my fault).

You can still make some amazing stuff in Java, there is nothing to stop you building your own amazing high-end 3D engine and you can potentially build nicer stuff then you can in Flash. But applets were never really popular and tbh I think they are on the way out now. There is a huge wave of technologies (old and new) which are making plugins redundant. If you want to play a video with Java you still need to use the terrible JMF where as if you visit youtube today with Chrome you don't need any plugin at all. If you want to make a proper app you can use GWT to compile Java to Javascript, removing all those runtime issues. For games WebGL is being developed for 3D in the browser; no need to sign any certificates.

Flash has a big enough foothold and enough professional Flash developers to survive this wave (at least for a while). But most of all Adobe are very interested in improving Flash, keeping it alive for people to continue to use it. Sun have improved applets over the last few years, but thos have been minor.

Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #21 - Posted 2010-01-25 16:41:19 »

Now that the Oracle-Sun merge is complete, maybe Oracle will take client side more seriously by investing more money.

Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #22 - Posted 2010-01-25 17:03:01 »

Have you used ActionScript 3? It has classes, interfaces, packages/namespaces, static typing, properties, closures and an event listener concept all built in. I would say it's far less of an "artist's language" than something like JavaScript.
I program in ActionScript daily for my work (result is here: magic.cyclopath.org) and I will tell you that ActionScript is definitely not a pleasant language.  Although it has classes and typing, and event listeners their organization is abysmal.  I honestly prefer the JavaScript language to ActionScript (ignoring the inconsistencies between browsers, which isn't technically the language's fault).

Offline Mr. Gol

Senior Duke


Medals: 1



« Reply #23 - Posted 2010-01-25 22:48:34 »

I program in ActionScript daily for my work (result is here: magic.cyclopath.org) and I will tell you that ActionScript is definitely not a pleasant language.  Although it has classes and typing, and event listeners their organization is abysmal.  I honestly prefer the JavaScript language to ActionScript (ignoring the inconsistencies between browsers, which isn't technically the language's fault).

What do you mean by "organization", the standard library? I just wanted to make a point that ActionScript isn't nearly as bad as 5 years ago. Although the user base hasn't really matured, if you look at Adobe's forums the majority of questions about ActionScript are about trivial problems.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #24 - Posted 2010-01-25 23:33:32 »

For me, I think what can scare normal/average players is the fact that not all Java games load smoothly. Sometimes the JRE load just fast, sometimes the browser freezes for 5 to 10 secs or so. I mean, you NEVER see that kind of frustrating aspect with flash games. When a flash game takes time to load, you always see a nice progress bar, which displays smoothly. With Java, it often happens that you have that crappy Java logo by default at start - which I think you can't be remove (but I might be wrong) - then the game load, and once loaded, the browser seems to freeze for a couple a secs then the game gives feedback. Even with JRE 6u18, you still see that kind of crappy user experience. I'm so pissed of that situation. Can we hope for better in Java 7?
Yes, I still get annoyed by the overlap with the artist's legacy of AS 2. Basing everything around MovieClips and the timeline has crippled Flash, IMO, for many years to come (as a programmer's language). However, you are right that AS 3 is a big step forward.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #25 - Posted 2010-01-25 23:37:34 »

I worked with flash for almost five years. AS3 is ALMOST good, and it's much better than AS1 or AS2 ever were.

And xml parsing in flash is perfect. It's better than in any other language ever. Java probably has the worst xml parser system ever.

Play Minecraft!
Offline pjt33
« Reply #26 - Posted 2010-01-25 23:42:52 »

I agree with most of those who have said this already, Flashes real advantage is that it consistently works.
Speaking as someone who runs 64-bit Linux I have to disagree with you.
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #27 - Posted 2010-01-25 23:51:53 »

Speaking as someone who runs 64-bit Linux I have to disagree with you.
Ok, I concede. It only works consistently on 97% of desktop PCs.

That's still way ahead of Java!

Offline Xyle
« Reply #28 - Posted 2010-01-26 02:13:21 »

I think another case in this discussion is the fact that Adobe Flash CS3 or CS4 cost over $700 unless your a student or along those lines whereas the JDK is free.

This will ultimately cause a pretty big problem for me due to the fact that I cant afford to purchase something like that for my meager little indie endeavors and adventures.

I didnt take a look at AS3, but from what I read and seen, it does look more to be quite a full scale library. Demonpants pretty much said what I failed to say in the first post. It takes quite a bit to manipulate the movie objects and keep track of layers and timelines to put everything together. Of course it was my first experience with it so I'm sure over time I would get used to it. I just feel more comfortable with using Java to build stuff from the ground up where with flash your forced to use the movieclips, layers and timelines.

It was still fun though.

Life is just a game, learn to play!
------------------------------------------
╬-YellzBellz Games!-╬ Cheesy
Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #29 - Posted 2010-01-26 03:16:04 »

What do you mean by "organization", the standard library? I just wanted to make a point that ActionScript isn't nearly as bad as 5 years ago. Although the user base hasn't really matured, if you look at Adobe's forums the majority of questions about ActionScript are about trivial problems.

I do mean the standard library.  Often times I'm forced to write utility functions for Strings or other data types that should exist already.  Their Array class is bastardized hybrid of an array and a Java's Vector/ArrayList (and now they've added a Vector class that's really just the correct form of an array).  There's poorly documented differences between
1  
for each (a in list) { }

and
1  
for (a in list) { }


Their security sandbox is a joke and a pain in the ass, for example they don't allow you to write to a file from within actionscript after a user goes through the file picker.  They will however let you make unrestricted http requests back to the hosting server, and users can download files from the server via actionscript (so really, the client just writes the custom file to the server, then holds onto some key so that the user can re-download it).

Most of this was just a very necessary vent.  I will agree that AS3 is much improved, and that their XML handling is very nice.  Also the MXML language is pretty nice to use.  Last point, I was able to make their compiler crash with valid syntax, so ...

Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

TehJavaDev (32 views)
2014-10-27 03:28:38

TehJavaDev (26 views)
2014-10-27 03:27:51

DarkCart (41 views)
2014-10-26 19:37:11

Luminem (22 views)
2014-10-26 10:17:50

Luminem (27 views)
2014-10-26 10:14:04

theagentd (33 views)
2014-10-25 15:46:29

Longarmx (61 views)
2014-10-17 03:59:02

Norakomi (58 views)
2014-10-16 15:22:06

Norakomi (47 views)
2014-10-16 15:20:20

lcass (43 views)
2014-10-15 16:18:58
Understanding relations between setOrigin, setScale and setPosition in libGdx
by mbabuskov
2014-10-09 22:35:00

Definite guide to supporting multiple device resolutions on Android (2014)
by mbabuskov
2014-10-02 22:36:02

List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!