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  Java Applets now supported on Kongregate!  (Read 12045 times)
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Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #30 - Posted 2010-01-23 13:23:20 »

Did Kongregate give the exact reason of not supporting Java? We might learn something here. Just my $0.02

Offline Markus_Persson

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Mojang Specifications


« Reply #31 - Posted 2010-01-23 15:27:23 »

The users don't like installing new plugins, and they don't want to have to support several technologies.

Play Minecraft!
Offline kappa
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« Reply #32 - Posted 2010-01-23 15:47:28 »

The users don't like installing new plugins, and they don't want to have to support several technologies.

last i checked the java plugin had about 2-3 times the market share of silverlight.
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Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #33 - Posted 2010-01-23 22:38:44 »

last i checked the java plugin had about 2-3 times the market share of silverlight.
Strange reasoning by them... And Unity games are accepted... how many ppl have that plugin installed (or even know of its existence), and how many online gamers have java installed... Kongregate got it wrong!

ChrisM go get them!  Wink

PS. Just upload to games4j.com instead! Markus, you are always welcome there!

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #34 - Posted 2010-01-23 22:42:20 »

hmm, maybe i'm missing something about chrism, what do you people expect him to do? is he some sort of super hero? Smiley
Online princec

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« Reply #35 - Posted 2010-01-23 23:58:25 »

hmm, maybe i'm missing something about chrism, what do you people expect him to do? is he some sort of super hero? Smiley
Yes Wink

Cas Smiley

Offline Riven
Showcase Moderator

JGO Overlord


Medals: 611
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #36 - Posted 2010-01-24 02:01:48 »

I thought they did a rollback just to get rid of the above replies.

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Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #37 - Posted 2010-01-24 05:43:55 »

Quote
Strange reasoning by them... And Unity games are accepted... how many ppl have that plugin installed (or even know of its existence), and how many online gamers have java installed... Kongregate got it wrong!

It's all about reputation... and Java's reputation for embedded web app/games/whatever is just not good.

We're fighting an uphill battle. Maybe we should send in some really big guns - Cas, time to port your games to applets!  Wink

Online princec

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« Reply #38 - Posted 2010-01-24 10:39:55 »

My games are already ported to applets, I'm just not releasing them until there's a viable place to do so.

Cas Smiley

Offline Riven
Showcase Moderator

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Medals: 611
Projects: 4
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Hand over your head.


« Reply #39 - Posted 2010-01-24 12:23:56 »

My games are already ported to applets, I'm just not releasing them until there's a viable place to do so.

Cas Smiley

I get 8 (eight!) security dialogs on that page.

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Online princec

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« Reply #40 - Posted 2010-01-24 12:53:24 »

Opera huh?

Cas Smiley

Offline Riven
Showcase Moderator

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Hand over your head.


« Reply #41 - Posted 2010-01-24 12:56:01 »

Opera huh?

Cas Smiley

Naturally Smiley

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Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #42 - Posted 2010-01-24 13:04:04 »

opera is totally crap when it comes to java support, signed applets no longer work with it since opera 10 and yeh it doesn't remember the certificate you just accepted, so you'll get a certificate for each signed jar you put into the classloader.

@princec very nice, are you using the standard appletloader or a custom version ?
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #43 - Posted 2010-01-24 14:14:33 »

Quote
opera is totally crap when it comes to java support
Yep!

Online princec

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« Reply #44 - Posted 2010-01-24 16:33:04 »

Standard version, but I think a couple of iterations out-of-date.

Cas Smiley

Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #45 - Posted 2010-01-24 18:54:16 »

Quote
My games are already ported to applets, I'm just not releasing them until there's a viable place to do so.
Chicken or the egg my friend... chicken or the egg...

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


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« Reply #46 - Posted 2010-01-24 19:24:41 »

I think gamejolt is doing really good and could well be that site. The admin's are really nice and know how to build contacts and networks. The community around the site is growing really fast, they now usually have about 200 ppl on at any given time which IMO is pretty impressive (given that it only opened recently).

Get your game on there, pull a few strings to get some coverage on sites like indiegames blog and other indie game sites, then contact kongregate, show them your award portfolio, i'm sure it'll be an offer they can't refuse Smiley
Offline Swattkidd7

Junior Member





« Reply #47 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:08:13 »

My games are already ported to applets, I'm just not releasing them until there's a viable place to do so.

Cas Smiley

I just got  a white screen and when I tab over a piece of Javagaming frozen in the screen...Sad
Online princec

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« Reply #48 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:12:36 »

May I enquire as to your system specs?

Cas Smiley

Offline Swattkidd7

Junior Member





« Reply #49 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:16:21 »

May I enquire as to your system specs?

Cas Smiley

Sure, Core 2 Duo 2.40ghz, 4gb ram, 64 bit (not sure if that matters) and a 9800 Gs graphics card..(let me know if you need something else this is what i just got from system Tongue)

also I got these errors.

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Exception in thread "Thread-13" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Lnet/puppygames/applet/News;
   at java.lang.Class.getDeclaredFields0(Native Method)
   at java.lang.Class.privateGetDeclaredFields(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Class.getDeclaredField(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.getDeclaredSUID(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.access$700(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.lookup(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.initNonProxy(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readNonProxyDesc(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readClassDesc(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readNonProxyDesc(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readClassDesc(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readOrdinaryObject(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject0(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject(Unknown Source)
   at java.util.ArrayList.readObject(Unknown Source)
   at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
   at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
   at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectStreamClass.invokeReadObject(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readSerialData(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readOrdinaryObject(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject0(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject(Unknown Source)
   at com.shavenpuppy.jglib.Resources.load(Resources.java:356)
   at net.puppygames.applet.Game.init(Game.java:474)
   at net.puppygames.applet.Applet$2.run(Applet.java:70)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: net.puppygames.applet.News
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Applet2ClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(Unknown Source)
   ... 30 more
Caused by: java.io.IOException: open HTTP connection failed:http://www.puppygames.net/applets/test/net/puppygames/applet/News.class
  at sun.plugin2.applet.Applet2ClassLoader.getBytes(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Applet2ClassLoader.access$000(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Applet2ClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
   ... 34 more
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #50 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:20:26 »

XP? Vista? Mac? Browser? Java version?

Anyway, this is kinda typical of the Java experience isn't it :/

Cas Smiley

Offline Swattkidd7

Junior Member





« Reply #51 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:22:57 »

XP? Vista? Mac? Browser? Java version?

Anyway, this is kinda typical of the Java experience isn't it :/

Cas Smiley

Wow, yea I feel like a complete noob for leaving that info out... Windows 7, Firefox 3.5, and java version 1.6.0_17

and yea, this isnt really helping this threads case...sorry for the derail guys.
Online princec

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Medals: 284
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« Reply #52 - Posted 2010-01-25 01:27:04 »

Well, indeed Sad The thing is - Ultratron is pretty rock solid code (apart from that exception, but it was only a test applet and I don't need to fix that). It's been out there since 2005, and the only thing that breaks it normally is entirely missing OpenGL drivers, ie. totally vanilla unpatched XP machines, more or less. But, put it in an applet, even with the (almost) latest JVM, and... boom, broken. I mean, how bloody hard can this be??

Cas Smiley

Offline tberthel
« Reply #53 - Posted 2010-01-25 03:32:33 »

Would you like Ultratron on Android?

Online princec

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Medals: 284
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« Reply #54 - Posted 2010-01-25 10:46:29 »

Oh yes, and Titan Attacks and Droid Assault (though I fear DA is a bit beyond android).

Cas Smiley

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #55 - Posted 2010-01-25 21:03:41 »

Well, indeed Sad The thing is - Ultratron is pretty rock solid code (apart from that exception, but it was only a test applet and I don't need to fix that). It's been out there since 2005, and the only thing that breaks it normally is entirely missing OpenGL drivers, ie. totally vanilla unpatched XP machines, more or less. But, put it in an applet, even with the (almost) latest JVM, and... boom, broken. I mean, how bloody hard can this be??

Cas Smiley

really its not that hard, however there are a few big pitfalls you need to watch out for. (someone should really create a list somewhere)

- remember your not running a pure Display anymore, it may not seem like it but applets have some AWT graphics code, which is enabled but not used. So adding the following applet parameter

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<param name="java_arguments" value="-Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true -Dsun.awt.noerasebackground=true -Dsun.java2d.d3d=false -Dsun.java2d.opengl=false -Dsun.java2d.pmoffscreen=false">


should pretty much kill any hardware acceleration it may try to use, avoiding any driver clash or problems that may occur between awt and lwjgl on weak drivers.

- don't use any System.exit(0)'s in your code, as that will kill the plugin - yes the the ultratron applets has a few of those Smiley

- for stability always use <param name="separate_jvm" value="true">

- unrelated - just curious, why the does the Ultratron applets have <param name="draggable" value="true"/> ?, you can't see any AWT components, let along drag them Smiley

- unrelated(2) - @princec in Ultratron how are you doing the really smooth mouse cursor, when mouse is grabbed? is that just drawing an image at Mouse.getX()/getY() ? or some sort of native cursor?

- relatively speaking princec is using a really old version of lwjgl, lots of bugs were killed especially for applets in more recent releases of lwjgl, ranging from corrupt file downloads to memory leaks. You should really use lwjgl 2.2.2+ (yes out soon Smiley) if you want nice lwjgl applets Smiley


@Swattkidd7 do other lwjgl applets work for you or do they all fail? e.g. Minecraft or Final Kapster
Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #56 - Posted 2010-01-25 22:42:19 »

It's all about reputation... and Java's reputation for embedded web app/games/whatever is just not good.

That might be, but the reason they gave Markus was:

The users don't like installing new plugins, and they don't want to have to support several technologies.
Even Unity seems to be a plugin that Just Workstm, but it will almost certainly be a plugin they will have to install. But yep, shame java is the only platform that has these big stability issues.  Angry

So the LWJGL plugin seemed like a really good idea, but then again, princecs lwjgl applet also give me a white screen. I first saw the bootloader for a split sec, and then white. The console showed:
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java.util.zip.ZipException: unknown compression method
   at java.util.zip.InflaterInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.PNGImageDecoder.produceImage(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.InputStreamImageSource.doFetch(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.fetchloop(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.run(Unknown Source)
Applet INIT
Applet START
display_parent.isDisplayable() = true
Exception in thread "Thread-14" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Lnet/puppygames/applet/News;

Not sure if the first part was just something extra that I got, but seems relevant to the NoClassDef.
WinXP, FF 3.5 & Chrome, Java 1.6.0_17, Mobile Intel 965 Express (Could be the problem). Cleaned the java cache. Final Kapster works fine though pretty sure Minecraft did as well.

Edit: Spelling

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 70
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #57 - Posted 2010-01-25 22:45:43 »

then again, princecs lwjgl applet also give me a white screen. I first saw the bootloader for a split sec, and then white. The console showed:
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java.util.zip.ZipException: unknown compression method
   at java.util.zip.InflaterInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(Unknown Source)
   at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.PNGImageDecoder.produceImage(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.InputStreamImageSource.doFetch(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.fetchloop(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.run(Unknown Source)
Applet INIT
Applet START
display_parent.isDisplayable() = true
Exception in thread "Thread-14" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Lnet/puppygames/applet/News;

Not sure if the first part was just something extra that I got, but seems relevant to the NoClassDef.
WinXP, FF 3.5 & Chrome, Java 1.6.0_17, Mobile Intel 965 Express (Could be the problem). Cleaned the java cache. Final Kapster works fine though pretty sure Minecraft did as well.

Edit: Spelling

pretty sure thats a bug thats been fixed in a newer lwjgl release. (just means you got a corrupt download)
Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #58 - Posted 2010-01-25 22:55:04 »

- don't use any System.exit(0)'s in your code, as that will kill the plugin - yes the the ultratron applets has a few of those Smiley
It might even kill the browser with all the other tabs, so this is really bad for user retention  Wink. Very dangerous when you use the same codebase for both applet and application, since it is easy to forget... (I know Wink )

really its not that hard, however there are a few big pitfalls you need to watch out for. (someone should really create a list somewhere)
Psst over here. Feel free to add more as well. Read more</hijack>

I think gamejolt is doing really good and could well be that site.
Or better yet, games4j.com. It even has a great wiki  Wink

Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #59 - Posted 2010-01-25 22:57:29 »

pretty sure thats a bug thats been fixed in a newer lwjgl release. (just means you got a corrupt download)
Yup, I think I had that problem with this laptop before (and the pixel format bug as well), so it is very likely.

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