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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #30 - Posted 2009-12-03 08:50:50 »

I'm not entirely clear on how the community voting will be handled. Will the judges' score be used to create one leaderboard and the community score for another? Or will they be combined in some way?

Perhaps three leaderboards are in order:
- Combined leaderboard (50/50) (games by judges are not listed)
- Judging panel leaderboard
- Community vote leaderboard

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #31 - Posted 2009-12-03 15:32:59 »

That seems reasonable as long as it's not too easy to "cheat" the community vote (making multiple accounts or multiple votes).

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #32 - Posted 2009-12-03 16:03:53 »

That seems reasonable as long as it's not too easy to "cheat" the community vote (making multiple accounts or multiple votes).

Well, it'll be restricted to user account, and you can only create one user account per email address.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #33 - Posted 2009-12-03 19:04:56 »

Well, it'll be restricted to user account, and you can only create one user account per email address.
So then if someone wants to they can cheat fairly easily (I myself have 3 email addresses that I actually use, plus countless others that I could probably remember the password for eventually), although it's probably unlikely anybody would really bother. Either way, can you do a same IP checker or something? That's slightly harder to bypass.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline SimonH
« Reply #34 - Posted 2009-12-03 19:39:56 »

That's slightly harder to bypass.
*wicked laugh* My game is a signed applet which opens an account at Java4K and then votes for itself! Cunning, no?

People make games and games make people
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 15
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #35 - Posted 2009-12-03 20:03:07 »

It doesn't have to be signed if it's loaded from that domain. Wink

Play Minecraft!
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #36 - Posted 2009-12-04 16:03:44 »

*wicked laugh* My game is a signed applet which opens an account at Java4K and then votes for itself! Cunning, no?
Brilliant!  Grin

We can make a game where it cunningly discovers the user's Java4k username and password, and then makes them give it a 5!

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 800
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #37 - Posted 2009-12-04 17:36:10 »

We can make a game where it cunningly discovers the user's Java4k username and password, and then makes them give it a 5!

Why would you need the password? Hijack the sessionid in the cookie, login, change the password, vote, no way to restore the password, but heck... who cares.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #38 - Posted 2009-12-04 18:02:34 »

Well, if I hadn't mentioned, you have to print out a form, and post in via snail-mail to me personally.   Roll Eyes


Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #39 - Posted 2009-12-04 21:05:17 »

Well, if I hadn't mentioned, you have to print out a form, and post in via snail-mail to me personally.   Roll Eyes


I can write a program that can do that. Smiley

See my work:
OTC Software
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline icza

Junior Member


Projects: 2



« Reply #40 - Posted 2009-12-08 08:05:46 »

I mailed appel, but I figured others might be able to answer my questions and the answers might help others too.


Hi there! I'm new to this community.

I'd like to enter the competition. I have read the rules (and the forum), but I have some questions:

First question:
I've read that pack200 is allowed. What does this mean? What does the 4k limit applies to?
The jar file? Or the repacked jar file created by the "pack200 --repack Some.jar" command?
Or even the pack.gz can be 4k? (which might be the output of "pack200 Some.jar.pack.gz Some.jar").

Another quesiton:
If I submit my game now, will I be able to re-upload an improved version before the deadline?

Last question.
All that required is that the jar can be run as Applet?
For example to run it as an applet, it does not have to have a MANIFEST.MF (it will not be a valid jar, but can be run as applet).
Ideally the jar should contain only one file: for example G.class (if it does not use resources).

Is this so?

Thanks in advance.
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #41 - Posted 2009-12-08 08:54:14 »

I mailed appel, but I figured others might be able to answer my questions and the answers might help others too.


Hi there! I'm new to this community.

I'd like to enter the competition. I have read the rules (and the forum), but I have some questions:

First question:
I've read that pack200 is allowed. What does this mean? What does the 4k limit applies to?
The jar file? Or the repacked jar file created by the "pack200 --repack Some.jar" command?
Or even the pack.gz can be 4k? (which might be the output of "pack200 Some.jar.pack.gz Some.jar").

Another quesiton:
If I submit my game now, will I be able to re-upload an improved version before the deadline?

Last question.
All that required is that the jar can be run as Applet?
For example to run it as an applet, it does not have to have a MANIFEST.MF (it will not be a valid jar, but can be run as applet).
Ideally the jar should contain only one file: for example G.class (if it does not use resources).

Is this so?

Thanks in advance.

First: "java pack200" can be googled.  And the resulting pack200 file is what is counted towards the 4096 bytes.

Another Yes. It is possible for you to update all the details of your game, including uploading new files.

Last: No manifest is required.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline pjt33
« Reply #42 - Posted 2009-12-08 09:33:03 »

First: "java pack200" can be googled.  And the resulting pack200 file is what is counted towards the 4096 bytes.
I don't think his question was "What is pack200?".

The file you upload (whether a straightforward .jar or a .pack.gz) has to come in at 4096 bytes or less.
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #43 - Posted 2009-12-08 09:39:28 »

I don't think his question was "What is pack200?".

The file you upload (whether a straightforward .jar or a .pack.gz) has to come in at 4096 bytes or less.

Ok, I misunderstood the question. But I did answer it. The .pack.gz file has to be equal or less than 4096 bytes.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline icza

Junior Member


Projects: 2



« Reply #44 - Posted 2009-12-08 11:54:02 »

Ok, I misunderstood the question. But I did answer it. The .pack.gz file has to be equal or less than 4096 bytes.

Yup, my question got answered.

But then here's another one:
What do the jugdes look when scoring an application?
Just how fun/good it is? Or do they look into the source code as how readable, understandable it is and how well it is documented?
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 165
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #45 - Posted 2009-12-08 12:01:30 »

No one cares about the source code in this case. Fun game and impressive for 4k.

Kev

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 77
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #46 - Posted 2009-12-08 14:11:38 »

Or do they look into the source code as how readable, understandable it is and how well it is documented?

ha, the code for most Java4k games is super evil Smiley, even obfuscated  code isn't as bad and in some cases, no one but the author can make any sense out of it.
Offline icza

Junior Member


Projects: 2



« Reply #47 - Posted 2009-12-08 14:24:03 »

ha, the code for most Java4k games is super evil Smiley, even obfuscated  code isn't as bad and in some cases, no one but the author can make any sense out of it.

Ok, I will try to focus on the game instead of writing docs. But I claim that any medicore Java coder could understand the sources of my Java4k game (which is yet to be submitted).
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 165
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #48 - Posted 2009-12-08 14:25:34 »

Quote
But I claim that any medicore Java coder could understand the sources of my Java4k game (which is yet to be submitted).

Then you must have tonnes of room left to squash it and fit in more featres Cheesy

Kev

Offline icza

Junior Member


Projects: 2



« Reply #49 - Posted 2009-12-08 14:36:13 »

Then you must have tonnes of room left to squash it and fit in more featres Cheesy

Kev

Yes, I still have tons of room, but I used lots of local variable constants to make the code more readable and easier to manage, and lots of comments.
Offline pjt33
« Reply #50 - Posted 2009-12-08 14:58:57 »

Fun game and impressive for 4k.
And if the judging is like last year there's a nostalgia bonus for writing a clone of a GameBoy game.
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #51 - Posted 2009-12-08 16:14:16 »

Yes, I still have tons of room, but I used lots of local variable constants to make the code more readable and easier to manage, and lots of comments.

That is what most do.  Just make sure you use ProGuard to shrink the class file down.  ProGuard is a code optimizer/obfuscator.  It will remove a lot of bloat from the class file.

Offline icza

Junior Member


Projects: 2



« Reply #52 - Posted 2009-12-09 11:53:08 »

What does the 6th rule mean?
Quote
6. No soundbanks may be used because they are not a default part of the "public" JRE. You will have to create your sounds at runtime rather than use MIDIs.

That I can't use wav files for sound effects?
What about Applet.play() method? It is part of the public JRE. And it can play wav files. Of course I know I'm not allowed to play a wav from the internet, but am I allowed to play a wav stored in the jar file?
Online Abuse

JGO Knight


Medals: 12


falling into the abyss of reality


« Reply #53 - Posted 2009-12-09 12:23:52 »

What does the 6th rule mean?
That I can't use wav files for sound effects?
What about Applet.play() method? It is part of the public JRE. And it can play wav files. Of course I know I'm not allowed to play a wav from the internet, but am I allowed to play a wav stored in the jar file?

Sure you are; if you can fit a meaningful wav into a 4kb jar!

Make Elite IV:Dangerous happen! Pledge your backing at KICKSTARTER here! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/54785909/EliteIVsmaller.png
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #54 - Posted 2009-12-09 13:03:07 »

What does the 6th rule mean?
That I can't use wav files for sound effects?
What about Applet.play() method? It is part of the public JRE. And it can play wav files. Of course I know I'm not allowed to play a wav from the internet, but am I allowed to play a wav stored in the jar file?

I think there are some wav files embedded in the JDK, that can be used directly. That's not part of the "public JRE", so it cannot be used.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #55 - Posted 2009-12-09 15:46:53 »

I think there are some wav files embedded in the JDK, that can be used directly. That's not part of the "public JRE", so it cannot be used.
I assumed you were talking about Sun's MIDI stuff, which isn't in the JRE already.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #56 - Posted 2010-01-24 22:07:32 »

I am considering doing a sim game, which really could do with persistant storage, so you can come back to it.  Rather than sign the applet, I was thinking of using cookies, since these work fine in the sandbox. However this is a bit broken on Firefox 3.5 on the Mac at the moment, although it works Ok with Safari on the Mac & both IE and Firefox on the PC.  The Mac problem appears to be due to the old java plugin using LiveConnect, which Firefox doesn't support anymore.  It's a problem that should go away eventually when Apple has caught up.  In the mean time safari works.

Writing cookies, needs to be done carefully, since I could trample on top of any used by Java4k.com (You have some starting __utm).  I thought that setting the cookie name as the applet name + year would work,  and unlikely to clash with someone elses.  Since Java4k.com already has several cookies, I am assuming that the PHP code isn't going to throw a wobbly if it get's one from me on page fetches.

The documentation says that you need to add MAYSCRIPT to the applet tag, to get access to the DOM.  Curiously this is true for Safari and Firefox, but IE just plain ignores it and grants access anyway.  Still MAYSCRIPT needs to be allowed if this is to be cross-browser.  I haven't experimented to see if Java4k.com will allow this tag.

Anyway, I'm not sure whether this is a good idea; if everybody did this, there would be a pile of cookies, clogging the place up - so I'm looking for opinions.

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
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