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  which compiler (/IDE)?  (Read 10349 times)
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Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2009-08-12 05:17:28 »

Hi folks,

one simple question, which IDE do you use?


im a big newbie but experienced enough to think using notepad + sun's tools sucks hard.


im using JBuilder  2007 (i think its from borland). Some friends told me not to use anything coming from borland coz they have plenty of bugs.


so far i only had some problems with things that wont repaint (both with setIngoreRepaint(true) and (false), but they work well when i export the app to jar.


so what do you advice?

this IDE is really good. it autocompletes my code, for example if a have a jframe object i can type:

myObject. 

and as soon as i type the dot, a pop up window appears with all the possible functions i can access to with a short text explaining what the function does (what receives and what returns). so i can browse the functions with the arrow keys and hit enter when im done. (i use this a lot coz im a big newbie and still dont rembemer what each thing does, and some others times its helpful coz i learn a lot from there)

another cool thing is that if i rename something it changes all the required code to fit to the new name.

it also highlight variables and has a really good gui.

the only cons are that its 500mb big (thats a lot for a compiler let me tell ya) and it sucks 250mb of ram, maybe coz its constantly checking if there are errors in the code (it checks and highlight errors even before you compile the code, really usefull to spot errors on the fly). it also has a cool auto fix error (sometimes).

for example it includes libraries automatically or implements methods if needed (for example if you implement an interface).



i dont work for borland, its just what i like about that compiler (my old c/c++ compiler didnt do anything similar to this!), but maybe its just a java standard.


so what do you use/recommend?


see ya

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2009-08-12 11:29:36 »

Eclipse. If you're coming from JBuilder, you might find NetBeans comfortable too.

Cas Smiley

Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #2 - Posted 2009-08-12 14:32:42 »

JBuilder 2007 is more or less Eclipse, so you won't gain or loose too much when changing. I personally prefer Netbeans, but that's a matter of taste. Most modern IDEs share the same features in one color or another. At least the ones you listed are supported by all three.

And for the wording: a compiler is a (commandline) tool to translate source code into some kind of bytecode. For java this is mostly the standard javac contained in the J2SDK.
JBuilder, Eclipse and Netbeans on the other hand are IDEs (Integrated Development Environments) not compilers.


Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
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Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2009-08-12 17:17:09 »

good to know that thing about IDE's

So basically if it has those rich features instead of plain text-to-whateverExecutable then we are talking about an IDE right?


Btw i'm not really scared about loosing some features, in facts JBuilder has tons of things that i just dont know what they are (i guess they are for more advanced apps) so it wont bother if they are not there anymore.


the only thing i want basically is auto complete the code (if it has descriptions of what the function does much better!) and error correction on the fly.

ohh and a bug free environment !!

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #4 - Posted 2009-08-12 19:51:11 »

Just try out Netbeans (http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html). It's a fast effortless download (Java SE - 50mb) and installation. If it doesn't suite you, stay with jbuilder or try eclipse. But don't be fooled. All of these full fledged java IDEs are slow starters and real memory hogs. Better have some gig ram spare... If you want something lean and mean you probably won't find anything with the features you mentioned.


Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Reply #5 - Posted 2009-08-13 01:26:59 »

gonna try that out.

anyways, its not the memory usage what worries me but the bugs.

i have 2gb of ram adn even using windows vista its not a big problem.



oh btw, for some reason, when i compile and run the game within the IDE, i get half of the fps i get when i play it from the desktop, any ideas why?


(im getting 86 fps within the ide and 166 locked when playing from desktop)

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #6 - Posted 2009-08-13 15:32:28 »

Eclipse is known for its greediness of memory.  NetBeans uses less system resources, but I still prefer Eclipse.

which compiler do you use?

Minor correction:  The IDE makes your code work easier.  The compiler is usually what you can use from the CMD command-line, and the IDE works with the compiler for you.

Offline kaffiene
« Reply #7 - Posted 2009-08-13 21:50:28 »

I prefer Netbeans.  I started out with Eclipse (well, actually Emacs - but that's another matter!) but for the last few years I feel that NB has been getting better and Eclipse has been getter fatter and more fragmented.
Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #8 - Posted 2009-08-13 23:40:25 »

I prefer Netbeans.  I started out with Eclipse (well, actually Emacs - but that's another matter!) but for the last few years I feel that NB has been getting better and Eclipse has been getter fatter and more fragmented.

I agree with this.  I'm sticking with the Ganymede 3.4.2 version since Galileo 3.5 and beyond can't run on my computer for some reason.  That seems odd to me since my software tends to run next to the cutting edge of release times.  Ubuntu though produces some weird compatibility problems.  Still, it's stable and never crashes in my normal usage.  ...I'm well-practiced at crashing Linux too.   Grin  It probably comes from my experiences with Windows before Vista!   Roll Eyes

Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Reply #9 - Posted 2009-08-13 23:53:56 »

just dowloaded netbeans, for my surprise, it was 50mb only !


about ides getting bigger and bigger, i think it could be useful for some ppl but i dont need to have in the same ide j2se, j2me, j2ee and tons of other things.

i want to have just j2se and a nice gui without thousands of buttons that i dont know what they do.


anyways i suppose they add more and more things to the same ide in order to become useful different users (so more sells Wink )



gonna tell ya what i think about this new ide.


PS: i edited the topic where it says compiler.

PS2: i see that anyone uses notepad+java's shit, i guess im not the only one who feels its hard to use even for a "hello world" application

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #10 - Posted 2009-08-14 00:04:55 »

gonna tell ya what i think about this new ide.

I am interested in your opinion.  It has been a year since I used it.  I thought about writing a guide regarding it and SVN.

PS: i edited the topic where it says compiler.

PS2: i see that anyone uses notepad+java's shit, i guess im not the only one who feels its hard to use even for a "hello world" application

"Notepad" and other similar software perform well for quickly designed console applications.  I believe IDEs exceed with GUI designs since frameworks like Swing support this.  JSP may highlight the difference.

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-08-14 00:09:24 »

I use NetBeans for my IDE and SciTE as my text editor. I've used Eclipse; mainly over the last year as where I worked didn't allow NetBeans.

In my experience I find NetBeans typically has 90% of Eclipse's features, but they are more stable and more intelligent. I can't remember the last time NetBeans crashed, whilst Eclipse used to crash multiple times a day. I noticed lots of little differences where NetBeans will say give a better error message for incorrect syntax or generate better code stubs. I also really hate, hate, hate the Eclipse look and feel. The window covers the start menu and the side panels are too thick when minimized.

But I think most of my problems with Eclipse are down to personal opinion. I had been using NetBeans for a long time before I really started using Eclipse. It is an excellent IDE.

I quite rarely compile and run things from the command line, but when I do I've always found the various tools in the JDK very self explanatory and straight forward when compared to tools I've used for other languages. I think Sun has done an excellent job with it.

Offline ManaSink

Senior Newbie





« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-08-14 13:42:54 »

I personally use (and love) the IntelliJ IDE, but it is rather expensive if you are paying for it out of your own pocket.  I only know a handful of professional developers that don't use some IDE for editing their java files.

If the IDE feels like overkill for you, you can go with a smarter text editor.  JL235 mentioned SciTE for a text editor, Notepad+ comes to mind as well.  These both do code highlighting, folding, and auto-completion.  If you go this route, you should definitely look at using a build tool to compile and package your code, javac and jar are pretty miserable from the command line.  Ant and Maven are your two typical options.  Ant is a straight forward, "tell it what you want it to do" system.  Maven is a pain in the ass to figure out, but is a godsend on a huge project.




Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-08-14 14:51:35 »

On the subject of Ant, it also works very well for when someone has trouble compiling code and a release hasn't been published yet.

Offline Nate

« JGO Bitwise Duke »


Medals: 158
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Exp: 14 years


Esoteric Software


« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-08-20 21:28:10 »

+1 for SciTE

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-08-20 23:18:40 »

It doesn't matter what IDE you use. Java is Java, and if you can't even choose your own IDE without asking someone for help you shouldn't be a programmer to being with.
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-08-21 02:37:00 »

It doesn't matter what IDE you use. Java is Java, and if you can't even choose your own IDE without asking someone for help you shouldn't be a programmer to being with.

Jeez, that's a bit harsh.  I don't see that it hurts to get other people's opinion first.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-08-21 06:44:18 »

It doesn't matter what IDE you use. Java is Java, and if you can't even choose your own IDE without asking someone for help you shouldn't be a programmer to being with.
CyanPrime - Your comment, I think, only indicates your own inexperience. Make sure you know what you're talking about before you start writing people off - especially when they've already professed to be a noon and they're just looking for a discussion. What does your comment add to the conversation? It doesn't. I personally use 3 IDEs, depending on the situation. They're not the same at all. Each optimizes your time in a different way, and although the coding remains the same the time saved is important, because as they say, time is money.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-08-21 13:06:11 »

Jeez, that's a bit harsh.  I don't see that it hurts to get other people's opinion first.
+1 on this, there is nothing wrong or unproffessional with asking for help or opinion.

Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-08-21 19:26:48 »

It doesn't matter what IDE you use. Java is Java, and if you can't even choose your own IDE without asking someone for help you shouldn't be a programmer to being with.

1st: it do matter
2nd: i've already choosen JBuilder 2007,i just wanted to know if there is any ide out there that is better

So if you ask the waiter "what is good to eat today?" you are an inexperienced "eater" ?

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-08-22 02:34:15 »

so Fermixx, you said before that you had downloaded NetBeans. Are you still trying it out? How do you think it compares to JBuilder?

Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-08-22 19:44:35 »

CyanPrime - Your comment, I think, only indicates your own inexperience. Make sure you know what you're talking about before you start writing people off - especially when they've already professed to be a noon and they're just looking for a discussion. What does your comment add to the conversation? It doesn't. I personally use 3 IDEs, depending on the situation. They're not the same at all. Each optimizes your time in a different way, and although the coding remains the same the time saved is important, because as they say, time is money.

Agreed.

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-08-22 20:38:24 »

I've been programming for well over 5 years. If you call that inexperienced I'd call you an idiot.

I love how everyone bandwaggons to jerk each other off about how harsh I am on someone who asked a stupid question. Please, don't let me stop your sweaty session of love, keep going.
Offline shatterblast

Senior Newbie




Noobier Than Thou


« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-08-22 20:41:54 »

I've been programming for well over 5 years. If you call that inexperienced I'd call you an idiot.

I love how everyone bandwaggons to jerk each other off about how harsh I am on someone who asked a stupid question. Please, don't let me stop your sweaty session of love, keep going.

Okay, I will.  I'm not on your "bandwagon" or anybody else's.

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-08-22 21:15:19 »

Okay, I will.  I'm not on your "bandwagon" or anybody else's.
LoL Oxymoron.
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-08-22 21:26:08 »

... I am on someone who asked a stupid question.
When you call people's question stupid, they tend to ask less questions. Less communication is bad for team work.

Offline fermixx

Senior Newbie





« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-08-24 00:53:48 »

so Fermixx, you said before that you had downloaded NetBeans. Are you still trying it out? How do you think it compares to JBuilder?


I was surprised how similar they were. In fact, one looks like a ripoff of the other (dunno which was first). Both check for errors on the fly, have a "structure" panel with all your variables and functions, have a "project" panel with all your projects with packages and resourses and a long etcetera. I was supresed by the fact that they even use the same colours to highlight things !!

Oh and both take a loooooooooooot to load up (c2d 2.0ghz, 2gb ram)

Something i dont like in neatbeans is that the colours look uglier (like less bit depth) but thats a minor thing. i still need to get used to the interface and how it structures my project folder (it put various subfolders in it automatically) and need to find the console!

Believe it or not, i couldnt find a panel showing the console output. If you believe the console is not necessary since you are using a window, let me tell ya that i use it a lot for debugging (i.e. how the variables come in and how do they go out)


One final test i need to do is to see if the ide is making some kind of optimization. I need to export to jar my game in both ides and check the fps, but im a bit lazy with this (i've been playing Medieval 2 Total War a lot instead of coding  Tongue)

RTS game or a big rock-paper-sissors ?
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-08-24 01:22:44 »

I've been programming for well over 5 years. If you call that inexperienced I'd call you an idiot.

I love how everyone bandwaggons to jerk each other off about how harsh I am on someone who asked a stupid question. Please, don't let me stop your sweaty session of love, keep going.

I've been programming just short of thirty years but that doesn't make me think that asking about tool preferences marks someone as stupid at all. 

Why so aggressive dude?
Offline bienator

Senior Devvie




OutOfCoffeeException


« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-08-24 01:30:57 »

In fact, one lBelieve it or not, i couldnt find a panel showing the console output.
Ctrl+4 or Window->Output->Output Wink

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-08-24 01:58:59 »

One final test i need to do is to see if the ide is making some kind of optimization.
Eclipse uses it's own java compiler which I believe makes only some minor optimisations to your code. NetBeans uses javac which performs no optimizations. Jikes is the only real optimizing java compiler out there, and it's no longer active. tbh I'd be really surprised if Eclipse produces noticeably faster code then Sun's javac compiler.

The idea is that the JVM makes all optimizations when it runs in order to best optimize for the target machine. If you also start your game with -server you'll find it should run faster, but it'll take far longer to start up and I don't know if it's supported in the standard Java run times.

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