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  Update to Java for Mac OS X released  (Read 8695 times)
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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Posted 2009-06-16 14:05:08 »

From the javadev mailing list:

Java Developers,

The final versions of Java for Mac OS X 10.5 and 10.4 are available today via Software Update and manual download.

If you have installed any of the Java developer previews, you will have to download the manual update from support.apple.com, since Software Update already thinks you have the update installed.

Java for Mac OS X 10.5 Update 4:
<http://support.apple.com/downloads/Java_for_Mac_OS_X_10_5_Update_4>

Java for Mac OS X 10.4 Release 9:
<http://support.apple.com/downloads/Java_for_Mac_OS_X_10_4__Release_9>

If you find any issues, please be sure to file them at <http://bugreporter.apple.com  > with a reproducible test case, if possible.

Thank you to all who filed bugs against the developer previews, Mike Swingler Java Runtime Engineer Apple Inc.

Offline kappa
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2009-06-16 15:01:50 »

ah excellent, now all 64bit macs will be using the new applet plugin2 (due to it being pushed down as a must have security update).

now we just need an official Java 1.6.0_u10+ for 32bit macs and it'll be happy days for applets Smiley
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2009-06-16 15:46:01 »

ah excellent, now all 64bit macs will be using the new applet plugin2 (due to it being pushed down as a must have security update).

now we just need an official Java 1.6.0_u10+ for 32bit macs and it'll be happy days for applets Smiley

Note that they updated 64 bit to 1.6.0_13, not 6u13, so no plugin2 just yet.
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Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

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« Reply #3 - Posted 2009-06-16 15:56:44 »

Note that they updated 64 bit to 1.6.0_13, not 6u13, so no plugin2 just yet.

doh, guess mac users are still stuck with sucky applets then.
Offline Eli Delventhal

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Medals: 42
Projects: 11
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Game Engineer


« Reply #4 - Posted 2009-06-16 17:31:48 »

I don't know if it's because of this update or because I was being an idiot previously (but I don't think I was...) but suddenly I am allowed to run 1.6 on my work computer, which I thought was 32-bit but may in fact be 64-bit. In any case, I am running 1.6 now, so hooray. I even tested out TUER, which ran just fine.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Mr. Gol

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #5 - Posted 2009-06-16 17:43:36 »

doh, guess mac users are still stuck with sucky applets then.

Are you sure? My developer preview lists 'New out-of-process Java applet plug-in' as one of the major changes.
Offline kappa
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« Reply #6 - Posted 2009-06-16 19:13:28 »

Are you sure? My developer preview lists 'New out-of-process Java applet plug-in' as one of the major changes.

nope not sure, don't have a mac so can't confirm.

anyone can confirm, if it is the new plugin or still old one?
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2009-06-16 19:50:26 »

Are you sure? My developer preview lists 'New out-of-process Java applet plug-in' as one of the major changes.

That's different. The developer preview is 6u13 (or later version, I don't remember), and it does include plugin2. This security fix was for 6.0_13 though.
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2009-06-16 21:47:26 »

I don't know what I was smoking this morning, but 1.6.0_13 and 6u13 is the same thing.
Offline kappa
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« Reply #9 - Posted 2009-06-17 00:40:15 »

I don't know what I was smoking this morning, but 1.6.0_13 and 6u13 is the same thing.

ah good, guess it is good news for applets then  Grin
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2009-06-17 02:37:11 »

ah good, guess it is good news for applets then  Grin

No, it isn't.  Plugin2 didn't get bug fixed in time and was pulled for the release.

Online princec

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-06-17 09:01:58 »

So, er, what Macs have what Java now?

Cas Smiley

Offline Mr. Gol

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-06-19 18:11:55 »

10.4 (Tiger) -> Java 1.5.0_19 (32 bit)
10.5 (Leopard) with PowerPC or 32-bit Intel processor -> Java 1.5.0_19 (32 bit)
10.5 (Leopard) with Intel 64-bit processor -> Java 1.5.0_19 (32 and 64 bit), Java 1.6.0_13 (64 bit)

Yes, this is idiotically complicated and cannot in any way be explained to users on your website. The fact that 1.6 is 64-bit only also complicates life, as it causes for problems for anything using native libraries. For example, Eclipse won't run currently because no 64-bit SWT exists (although this will be fixed in the next version).

My own statistics indicate that quite a number of Mac users are still using OS X 10.4, so I would call releasing something Java 6-only for Mac extremely risky.
Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-06-19 20:54:05 »

I guess we should all just be glad we can finally code for Java 1.5 on Macs.   Roll Eyes

Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-06-19 21:39:05 »

Yes, this is idiotically complicated and cannot in any way be explained to users on your website. The fact that 1.6 is 64-bit only also complicates life, as it causes for problems for anything using native libraries. For example, Eclipse won't run currently because no 64-bit SWT exists (although this will be fixed in the next version).
I have a Mac with both Java 6 and Eclipse running fine.  I'm not sure how it all worked out, but I've never had trouble with 64-bit natives.

Offline Mr. Gol

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-06-20 10:54:49 »

I have a Mac with both Java 6 and Eclipse running fine.  I'm not sure how it all worked out, but I've never had trouble with 64-bit natives.

That's because you are running Eclipse itself with Java 5. Try setting Java 6 as the preferred JVM in Applications > Utilities > Java Preferences and try again... Eclipse is able to use Java 6 to compile and run your applications, but it cannot run on Java 6 itself. (although this will be fixed next week when the new version is released)
Online princec

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-06-20 14:05:49 »

My stats for the last 2 months on Mac OS (unique downloads installations, all games):

Java versionInstalls
1.52952
1.4223
1.63

Apart from 10% of Mac users still using 1.4 - so still significant enough to unfortunately be stuck with it - I'd like to know where all the 1.6 logs are. It looks very like none of my games run on 1.6 :S Can anyone with 1.6 confirm?

Cas Smiley

Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-06-20 14:52:21 »

Cas, don't forget that that Apple leaves 1.5 as the system default even after 1.6 is installed. I'm guessing that skews the statistics some.

Edit: I just downloaded and tried Titan Attacks with the 64-bit Java 6 on my MBP and it worked great.

Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-06-20 15:49:51 »

That's because you are running Eclipse itself with Java 5. Try setting Java 6 as the preferred JVM in Applications > Utilities > Java Preferences and try again... Eclipse is able to use Java 6 to compile and run your applications, but it cannot run on Java 6 itself. (although this will be fixed next week when the new version is released)
Thanks for the explanation (and how to switch defaults).

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-06-23 03:34:59 »

My stats for the last 2 months on Mac OS (unique downloads installations, all games):

Java versionInstalls
1.52952
1.4223
1.63

Apart from 10% of Mac users still using 1.4 - so still significant enough to unfortunately be stuck with it - I'd like to know where all the 1.6 logs are. It looks very like none of my games run on 1.6 :S Can anyone with 1.6 confirm?

Cas Smiley

Because Java 6 is 64-bit only it requires a 64-bit browser for the JVM to load in the browser process.  That should have changed with this last update - but there were issues and, well it didn't - can't say much because of Apple's disclosure policies... but they did mention on the public dev list that plugin2 got pulled because they couldn't get it working well enough before this update was released.

Offline ewjordan

Junior Member





« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-06-24 05:23:29 »

Anyone else been having sporadic "invalid memory address" errors since this update? (I think the error message is actually slightly different, but I forgot to cut and paste it last time I hit it)  I'm getting them maybe one out of a hundred runs on some analysis stuff I'm doing, and it's happening with different apps and applets, so I don't think it's my fault in any way (I'm not getting an exception, we're talking a full crash, no logs or anything, just an error message and the program shuts down).

That's a Really Bad Thing, especially since the code that causes it is very innocuous, just pure Java number crunching stuff (create an array, fill it with numbers, do some math, print some results).  If Apple has borked memory management in this update, then the problem goes a lot deeper than just an occasional crash, there are probably some serious security holes just begging to be exploited - one of the most important things about Java is the fact that the JVM shouldn't screw this stuff up, and it makes me very nervous to see an implementation that occasionally does.

Perfect example of why it's a real terrible idea for Apple to handle its own JVM implementation...
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-06-24 07:01:28 »

One thing is that Apple reverted to their quartz renderer from Sun's software-only one. This may be the reason for some of the issues (or at least, differences in behavior). To verify, disable quartz renderer -Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=false .

Dmitri
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-06-26 02:32:50 »

There is a lot of discussion on the java-dev list at Apple along the lines of "How broken is your app with this update?"  Apparently a significant number of people are having issues.  Though I don't recall reading about a hard crash like that.  Please report it using Apple's bug reporter.

Online princec

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« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-06-26 14:46:47 »

Great - just what I needed. My only sales pipeline nerfed in a moment by Apple.
I really need OpenJDK for OSX. Who can help me?

Cas Smiley

Offline elias4444

Junior Member





« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-06-26 15:14:39 »

Cas, have you ever considered trying Unity for your games? Seems like it would work just as well.

Offline Eli Delventhal

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Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-06-26 17:26:09 »

Cas, have you ever considered trying Unity for your games? Seems like it would work just as well.

Unity needs to be bought, plus it's totally different than using Java. Sure it's a great engine (I used it at my company for a few months, no complaints here), but I really don't think it should be compared to Java itself. They're completely different. That's like saying to Cas, "Have you ever thought of using the Unreal Engine for your games?"

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-06-26 18:15:22 »

Great - just what I needed. My only sales pipeline nerfed in a moment by Apple.
I really need OpenJDK for OSX. Who can help me?

Cas Smiley

How would that help you though? Will you bundle the runtime with your apps?
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-06-26 21:16:58 »

Great - just what I needed. My only sales pipeline nerfed in a moment by Apple.
I really need OpenJDK for OSX. Who can help me?

Cas Smiley

SoyLatte was the OS X port done by Landon Fuller.. the work done on it has been rolled into the OpenJDK code base as I understand it.

http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/java/SoyLatte_Meets_OpenJDK.20080819.html

I haven't had time to look into it.. of course expecting the update from Apple to be a bit higher quality.  (I'm not currently having any particular issues with it... but their are definitely things that need to be addressed.  It's too bad because at the end of the day users will probably blame Java and not Apple.)

Online princec

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Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


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« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-06-26 22:12:35 »

Yep, I'd bundle it with my games. Or at least, the 2mb or so of it that I use.

Cas Smiley

Offline kappa
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« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-06-30 22:25:04 »

more good news on the apple java applet stuff http://blogs.sun.com/javafx/entry/new_security_warning_for_mac

</sarcasm>
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