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  Will the Java Platform Create The World's Largest App Store?  (Read 42339 times)
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Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #30 - Posted 2009-05-22 20:46:21 »

With a few Javascript lines of code the JRE gets downloaded and installed. That's what I call automatic.

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #31 - Posted 2009-05-23 11:33:43 »

What market are they targetting here?

A. The desktop?
B. The mobile phone?
C. The cloud?
D. All of the above?

I ask because different news site interpret it differently.

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline rdcarvallo

Senior Member


Projects: 5
Exp: 15 years


2D Java games forever!


« Reply #32 - Posted 2009-05-25 07:46:42 »

As I said in another web about this news: If I have not to invest in a Mac and an iPhone, it's already better.
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Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #33 - Posted 2009-05-25 08:13:55 »

What market are they targetting here?

A. The desktop?
B. The mobile phone?
C. The cloud?
D. All of the above?

I ask because different news site interpret it differently.
Well I believe it would be at least desktop and mobile and maybe everything else JavaFX will target.

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #34 - Posted 2009-06-02 21:48:36 »

http://store.java.com

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline irreversible_kev

Junior Member





« Reply #35 - Posted 2009-06-02 21:54:01 »

At the end of the blog:
Super boring

Quote
What's in the Java Store?
The early version of the Java Store includes a sampling of social software applications and games.

Nice Grin
I just wish it was available to the UK now.
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #36 - Posted 2009-06-02 21:58:29 »

I love how Jonathan is using some of Chris'es one-liners(for lack of a better word)

"you should make it trivially easy.... "  Smiley

//edit
(while introducing the java store at java one.)

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline dishmoth
« Reply #37 - Posted 2009-06-03 17:34:21 »

Hmm.  I'm surprised how quiet this thread is following the Store (beta) launch.  I would've thought that a Sun site for uploading games and earning money would attract more discussion.  Smiley  Or is everyone off at JavaOne this week?

Any beta testers want to report back on what the store's like at the moment?  Any word on what sort of annual fee Sun is thinking of charging?

Just curious,
Simon

Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #38 - Posted 2009-06-03 17:47:44 »

The Java store seems a good thing but what turns me down is the requirement to sign your apps with a certificate from Verisign. I don't know how much a certificate costs though.

Here is blog on java.net about certificates: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/wsnyder6/archive/2009/06/java_warehouse_1.html

Maybe another reason why there's isn't much interest right now is that non US residents can't apply to the private beta program, and I think there're more non US java devs here.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #39 - Posted 2009-06-03 18:16:19 »

Call me a cynic but... there aren't actually that many Java applications actually in existence, are there, outside of bespoke internal ones for business? A smattering of games, a few IDEs, and ... er... LimeWire and Vuze. And the majority of those just listed are free...?

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline dishmoth
« Reply #40 - Posted 2009-06-03 18:55:17 »

Call me a cynic but... there aren't actually that many Java applications actually in existence, are there, outside of bespoke internal ones for business? A smattering of games, a few IDEs, and ... er... LimeWire and Vuze. And the majority of those just listed are free...?

Cas Smiley

So the Java Store will launch without any Puppygames games?
Ouch! It really is doomed.  Undecided
Simon

Offline ShannonSmith
« Reply #41 - Posted 2009-06-03 18:56:59 »

I think the prospect of a simple way of monetizing Java Apps will encourage more development. I for one wouldn't mind throwing a simple 99c app on there just to see what happens. I think the Java store has the potential of becoming a default OS agnostic package management system. At JavaOne they were talking about re-writing the OpenOffice GUI in JavaFX so I am assuming they are intending get it on the App Store. If there are a bunch of high quality applications that use it as the preferred deployment method that could really boost the popularity and it could really take off.

Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #42 - Posted 2009-06-03 19:24:55 »

Yes, Java apps are really enterprise oriented right now but I see a great opportunity for Java games though. Again, marketing is crutial as well.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
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Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #43 - Posted 2009-06-03 20:13:32 »

Yes with any luck there'll be Puppygames on there when it (finally) opens. They'll still be $20 though, none of this race-to-the-bottom 99c rubbish.

Cas Smiley

Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #44 - Posted 2009-06-04 00:22:55 »

Quote
All code must be signed with a valid certificate issued by a trusted CA or it must be an application that runs in the sandbox (during the trial period of the Java Warehouse we will not enforce this rule and allow developers to sign their own code)

Its possible for a desktop app to run in a sandbox?
I wish there was a cheap certificate option somewhere, I'm not paying hundreds of dollars for one.

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #45 - Posted 2009-06-04 04:34:48 »

Yes you can create a webstart sandboxed desktop app, and obviously it doesn't need a certificate.

About free certificates, this site tells you how to get a free Thawte Freemail certificate:
http://www.dallaway.com/acad/webstart/

The process of using that cert and signing is so complex that it didn't work for me the last time I tried to update my certificate, even though i spent a few hours messing around with it.

Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #46 - Posted 2009-06-04 04:44:37 »

Quote
Yes you can create a webstart sandboxed desktop app, and obviously it doesn't need a certificate.
Hm true. I guess when I think of desktop apps I think of exes.

Quote
About free certificates, this site tells you how to get a free Thawte Freemail certificate:
http://www.dallaway.com/acad/webstart/

The process of using that cert and signing is so complex that it didn't work for me the last time I tried to update my certificate, even though i spent a few hours messing around with it.
I wish sun could just offer some easy to use free or cheap ones.

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #47 - Posted 2009-06-04 10:25:40 »

Call me a cynic but... there aren't actually that many Java applications actually in existence, are there, outside of bespoke internal ones for business? A smattering of games, a few IDEs, and ... er... LimeWire and Vuze. And the majority of those just listed are free...?

Cas Smiley

Think SAP ORACLE etc. there be plenty  Wink

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #48 - Posted 2009-06-04 11:11:53 »

SAP? Oracle? They've got distribution covered fine thanks, and they're not consumer orientated. This is a consumer application portal in the manner of the Android store or the Apple store. I wonder just how many Java applications actually fit the bill here? (IMHO writing and promoting software and using the fact that it uses Java as a selling point is actually what they now call massive FAIL on the internets)

Cas Smiley

Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #49 - Posted 2009-06-05 06:00:42 »

Yes with any luck there'll be Puppygames on there when it (finally) opens. They'll still be $20 though, none of this race-to-the-bottom 99c rubbish.

Cas Smiley

I don't think you understand the math. Some people become millionaires selling "99c rubbish". It's a tall order for someone to plop down $20, ~$2 is much easier. $20 * 0 = $0 ; $20 * 1000 = $20.000 .

I just don't get it - you get a chance to show your sw to millions of people (we get like 80 million jre downloads MONTHLY, and the store will be pushed with auto update) and it's "boring" to you.  If I were you, I'd be all over this, with your existing games and busily working on new ones.

I think early adopters have a huge opportunity.

Dmitri
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

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Hand over your head.


« Reply #50 - Posted 2009-06-05 07:17:17 »

It's a tall order for someone to plop down $20, ~$2 is much easier. $20 * 0 = $0 ; $20 * 1000 = $20.000.

I think you mean:

$20 * 0 = $0 ; $2 * 1000 = $2.000.

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Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #51 - Posted 2009-06-05 07:27:11 »

I think you mean:

$20 * 0 = $0 ; $2 * 1000 = $2.000.

Indeed =)

Ok, how about $2 * 10 * 1000 - for better dramatic effect!
Offline dishmoth
« Reply #52 - Posted 2009-06-05 08:51:01 »

(we get like 80 million jre downloads MONTHLY, and the store will be pushed with auto update)

I got a phone call from my dad the other day (just a few hours before reading about the Store's beta launch, funnily enough) complaining that something called Java had popped up on his computer and was trying to update itself.  He'd decided it was malware and wanted to know how to uninstall it.

Point being, I hope that the Store will be pushed gently, or a lot of users are going to start uninstalling anything on their computer that has Java in its name.

To add a bit of optimism to this post, I do feel that the store is potentially a very good thing for Java, and those Java developers that make use of it (which probably doesn't mean me since my games offer poor value-for-money even when they're free Grin )

Simon


Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #53 - Posted 2009-06-05 10:14:45 »

I don't think you understand the math. Some people become millionaires selling "99c rubbish". It's a tall order for someone to plop down $20, ~$2 is much easier. $20 * 0 = $0 ; $20 * 1000 = $20.000 .

I just don't get it - you get a chance to show your sw to millions of people (we get like 80 million jre downloads MONTHLY, and the store will be pushed with auto update) and it's "boring" to you.  If I were you, I'd be all over this, with your existing games and busily working on new ones.

I think early adopters have a huge opportunity.

Dmitri

I never said it was boring! And we are all over it - we've got our games up there but some of the daft restrictions/launching stuff are causing problems and they still don't seem to work.

FWIW I don't think you'll be selling too much from the store. Apart from the fact it's pretty quirky, I have a strong feeling your 80 million JRE downloads monthly figure is completely unreliable. That'd be every single person in the UK downloading a JRE every month. I think not.

Besides, there's still no integration with the store yet - what you've got from us is just the usual demo versions of the games. Unfortunately selling demos for 99c isn't going to work - the conversion rate will probably be only 2-3x what it is at $19.95, and you'll be taking a hefty cut, which is likely to leave us with a lot less money in the long run - and a hell of a lot of support, because like it or not, OpenGL still doesn't quite always work out-of-the-box. If we were guaranteed 99% of all installs were going to be successful we could get away without a demo. But as it is, demos are there primarily for us to check that the game runs on a system in the first place.

Cas Smiley

Offline princec

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Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #54 - Posted 2009-06-05 10:17:09 »

Also - our games are basically shite. They're what we can scratch together after work in our spare time. If you want some proper compelling content for the store - hire us - and then we won't have the time restriction and can get on with some serious productions.

Cas Smiley

Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #55 - Posted 2009-06-05 18:48:55 »

I never said it was boring! And we are all over it - we've got our games up there but some of the daft restrictions/launching stuff are causing problems and they still don't seem to work.

FWIW I don't think you'll be selling too much from the store. Apart from the fact it's pretty quirky,

Well, it's not the final UI from what I hear (and hope).

Quote
I have a strong feeling your 80 million JRE downloads monthly figure is completely unreliable. That'd be every single person in the UK downloading a JRE every month. I think not.

Right. The thing is, the world doesn't end with UK =)
But you're right, 80M is when an update is pushed out. Typically it's more like 20M of _new_ installs.

Quote
Besides, there's still no integration with the store yet - what you've got from us is just the usual demo versions of the games. Unfortunately selling demos for 99c isn't going to

Yeah, the whole thing is still being developed. I think the point is that you'd want to have your content to be ready when it's out, so you need to start looking into it early.

The store has a "preview" mode, where I presume the demo version of the application is shown.
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #56 - Posted 2009-06-05 18:49:42 »

Also - our games are basically shite. They're what we can scratch together after work in our spare time. If you want some proper compelling content for the store - hire us - and then we won't have the time restriction and can get on with some serious productions.

Cas Smiley

iPhone proves that people will buy ANYTHING. jFart, anyone?
Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #57 - Posted 2009-06-06 03:51:43 »

iPhone proves that people will buy ANYTHING. jFart, anyone?


I love tell the iFart story to people heh. Maybe I can make a fartFX for mobile Tongue

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #58 - Posted 2009-06-06 07:29:17 »

I love tell the iFart story to people heh. Maybe I can make a fartFX for mobile Tongue
[/quote

I'm sure our marketing/legal people would just looove that name =)
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #59 - Posted 2009-06-06 08:14:39 »

The conditions in which iFart, er, thrives, are very particular and unique though. Its time has been and gone, though there will remain a market for it.

Cas Smiley

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