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  Will the Java Platform Create The World's Largest App Store?  (Read 43119 times)
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Offline DzzD
« Reply #90 - Posted 2009-11-07 23:39:00 »

PS:
to reach the warehouse
https://store.java.com/warehouse/site/Login
as it is open to limited country you can use a US proxy like
http://directproxyserver.com/

then you only use you regular sun forum account

(NB: the simpliest proxy to use is often google translate (translate a page make it proxied) but it is sometime not working as expected)

Offline DzzD
« Reply #91 - Posted 2009-11-08 00:04:11 »

The link to the launcher2.jnlp for the Java Store seems to have been changed on James Goslings blog. Does anyone have the direct link?

you can try this one (below)

Offline woogley
« Reply #92 - Posted 2009-11-08 04:10:47 »

I know I have a bad track record of obvious hate for JavaFX.. but I have to say.. I'm impressed.

I am truly impressed JavaFX can behave as slowly as it does on my 2.6GHz quadcore 6GB RAM/1GB VRAM box. How can the simple action of dragging the window operate at 2 FPS?

Seriously, JavaFX is the inverse of Moore's law. JavaFX's slowness will always be one step ahead of hardware's speed advances.

However, to this app store's credit ... after waiting for 2mins and several "interrupts" .. the app finally loaded all 3 items in the category I picked.

Amazing!

edit: well i just noticed the dragging problem only happens when the terrible ajax-ish loading animation is running. When the animation is not running, the dragging is not AS bad, but it's still pretty pathetic Roll Eyes The entire interface is a slap in the face. The main drop-down takes up to 2 entire seconds to respond. Oh, and clicking on an item inside that drop-down? Yea, it usually takes 3 tries before it acknowledges my click.

Come on, Sun, this interface is a joke! I would get fired from my job if I released this.
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Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #93 - Posted 2009-11-09 00:26:29 »

games are probably the only thing the java store will sell, don't think there are any other killer java apps worth buying.
As with other store, games are going to be a significant portion of the apps, but there will be also social network, utilities, entertainment, art, design,
communication, etc.
Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #94 - Posted 2009-11-09 00:33:56 »

The first launch was horrific - when the images weren't cached yet, according to the Java Console. The UI just hang, the loading animator was frozen. Much text on top of eachtoher.

The second launch, was better, but the moment I clicked [<] and [>] to browse some games, all kinds of nice dialogs popped up, informing be about an interrupted (??) connection to the server. The app was useless after that, nothing worked.

Which version of Windows/Java are you using? I am not seeing this issue and it runs great on my vista machine. Load in 7 sec :-)
Offline Riven
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« Reply #95 - Posted 2009-11-09 07:11:00 »

Which version of Windows/Java are you using? I am not seeing this issue and it runs great on my vista machine. Load in 7 sec :-)

Appearantly, you're from Sun. I'm very tempted to say that it doesn't really matter what OS I'm running, because... well, first, Java is supposed to be platform independant, second the UI is crap on all platforms, and third, you should just start over again. Doing networking on the EDT is unforgivable.


But, to answer your question: Vista 64 bit Home Premium. Quadcore with 4GB RAM and 20mbit connection.

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Offline Riven
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« Reply #96 - Posted 2009-11-09 07:32:25 »

Further... 'load in 7 sec :-)' is nothing to be proud of. The first launch after boot of FireFox is faster than that.

That somebody from Sun registers here, to actually defend this 'product' worries me beyond all else. Isn't it enough that you can't find a single positive feedback on this forum, or well, anywhere? Maybe you have this cluster of test machines in the same datacenter as the hosting servers, and you're enjoying 1ms ping, which obscures any network delay?? I mean... there must be something making everybody at Sun totally oblivious to the technically bad design of this app.

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Offline DzzD
« Reply #97 - Posted 2009-11-09 10:03:50 »

Further... 'load in 7 sec :-)' is nothing to be proud of. The first launch after boot of FireFox is faster than that.
1 or 2 seconds for IE everytime :p



EDIT :
the store cannot be defend, it does not do anything special and it is slow even done in DHTM+javascript  it would be a t least 10 times faster (and really cross-platform), there is something wrong in it, you should better look where is the bottleneck

Offline TheAnalogKid

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« Reply #98 - Posted 2009-11-09 17:15:47 »

If this app is developed in JavaFX then I'm very tempted to say that JavaFX is still immature in terms of end user experience, especially about start-up time. I tried the demos on javafx.com a couple of weeks ago and the end user experience was still terrible! The demos didn't load fast and there was no progress bar or something similar! I'm really worried since they're just demos and are far from big apps.  Ho, and there're still browser integration issues for Chrome.

What's promising I think though is that once loaded, a JavaFX app runs fast from what I experienced.

Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #99 - Posted 2009-11-10 00:16:21 »


But, to answer your question: Vista 64 bit Home Premium. Quadcore with 4GB RAM and 20mbit connection.
Just trying to help - What's your Java version?
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Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #100 - Posted 2009-11-10 00:19:00 »

Maybe you have this cluster of test machines in the same datacenter as the hosting servers, and you're enjoying 1ms ping, which obscures any network delay?

Running from home - like everybody :-)
Offline Riven
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« Reply #101 - Posted 2009-11-10 00:28:36 »

Running from home - like everybody :-)

If I'd write such an app, I'd be running from home too. persecutioncomplex Wink

Anyway... something, like... between u14 and u17...? There are so many JREs installed that I have no clue which browsers uses which version. It's not even like they keep in sync. Oh well... found the courage to launch the app again, so here you go:

Java Web Start 1.6.0_17
Using JRE version 1.6.0_17-b04 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM



I hope the above helps fixing everything

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Offline TheAnalogKid

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Projects: 2



« Reply #102 - Posted 2009-11-10 03:11:48 »

I was finally able to load that app store without that network issue. I'm going to repeat what everybody said, this is dog slow! Mouse over event for buttons takes extremely long time to execute, like 0.5 to 1 sec. Progress bars at start-up are jerky. But bubbles over app icons seem to appear at correct speed though. I know my laptop runs pretty fast; I have a 2 Ghz 7200 core 2 duo with 4 GB of RAM and an NVidia 8600M 256 MB VRAM. Sorry for this long list of specs but I can't understand why this app is slow? And I just upgraded my JRE to Java 6u17. If this is representative of the future app store then I'm very worried at this point!   Shocked

Offline JL235

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« Reply #103 - Posted 2009-11-10 08:40:18 »

I was finally able to load that app store without that network issue.
How did you solve this?

Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #104 - Posted 2009-11-10 14:10:58 »

How did you solve this?
http://store.java.com/developerrelease
Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #105 - Posted 2009-11-10 14:18:47 »

Mouse over event for buttons takes extremely long time to execute, like 0.5 to 1 sec. Progress bars at start-up are jerky. But bubbles over app icons seem to appear at correct speed though.
On the first startup, the app is doing two things installing and running the app. Which mouse over event was slow?

Offline No Mercy

Senior Newbie





« Reply #106 - Posted 2009-11-10 14:26:50 »

If I'd write such an app, I'd be running from home too. persecutioncomplex Wink

Anyway... something, like... between u14 and u17...? There are so many JREs installed that I have no clue which browsers uses which version. It's not even like they keep in sync.

Java Web Start 1.6.0_17
Using JRE version 1.6.0_17-b04 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM


You have the latest JRE installed Wink You can use "shift-1" to see which JRE version the store is using
Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #107 - Posted 2009-11-10 15:17:43 »

Quote from: JL235
How did you solve this?
http://store.java.com/developerrelease
Thanks, but all I could find was:
Quote
Issue: Java Store can not establish connection to the server.

Description: Java Store sometimes can not establish a connection to the Java Store server.

Workaround: Close the Java Store and restart it using the desktop shortcut.
Closing it and trying again does not resolve the issue.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #108 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:05:10 »

somme free time today, so I decided to profle the store a little ....

Tests & Video done on : Intel Core Duo T7500 2.2Ghz / 3GB RAM / ATI HD 3650 512MB / Java 1.6-016-b01 / Window Vista (Aero disabled)

and the result is supprisingly that the Store is theorically not slow !

here are my results/observation (also used VisualVM) :

Memory consumption : 150MB - 200 MB ( could be a lot lower but that's not too bad)

CPU consumption :
   - when doing nothing : 0%
   - when moving an Icon : 20%-30% (of both core => 40%-60% of one, not that good but less than 100% so it should not change speed )

Starting time and crash : from 10s to 15s (only measured after n start and when all stuff are loaded), several network failure that requiere a restart


so....
 it dont use all the memory
 it never use 100% CPU
 it is theorically not slow.... 


Others notices :
 lot of run() method => probably intensivly multihreaded ?
 hang periodically sometimes (every 2/3 seconds)
 delay on information popup are IMO unsynchronized / too slow / not enought reactive

and finally here is a video I  made showing the drag & hang issue :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLMnxPLPVZg&fmt=18

sorry did not find anything that can help, but I tried Smiley

Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #109 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:22:26 »

I know I have a bad track record of obvious hate for JavaFX.. but I have to say.. I'm impressed.

I am truly impressed JavaFX can behave as slowly as it does on my 2.6GHz quadcore 6GB RAM/1GB VRAM box. How can the simple action of dragging the window operate at 2 FPS?

Seriously, JavaFX is the inverse of Moore's law. JavaFX's slowness will always be one step ahead of hardware's speed advances.

However, to this app store's credit ... after waiting for 2mins and several "interrupts" .. the app finally loaded all 3 items in the category I picked.

Amazing!

edit: well i just noticed the dragging problem only happens when the terrible ajax-ish loading animation is running. When the animation is not running, the dragging is not AS bad, but it's still pretty pathetic Roll Eyes The entire interface is a slap in the face. The main drop-down takes up to 2 entire seconds to respond. Oh, and clicking on an item inside that drop-down? Yea, it usually takes 3 tries before it acknowledges my click.

Come on, Sun, this interface is a joke! I would get fired from my job if I released this.

To be honest, the performance on my MacBook Pro is just fine.  Seriously, I don't see the slowdown that you are mentioning at all.  And, I should add, I have the 32-bit MBP running SnowLeopard, so not the fastest in class.

Even so, here is a video I just captured on my MBP (so, running the video capture software and running my apps including the storefront).  Note, I am capturing my second screen, so the store app opened up on my primary display and you can see my pointer leaving the screen to drag it over Smiley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKZ3sm43Nw

(Sorry about the watermark on the screen as well Smiley )

Offline DzzD
« Reply #110 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:25:26 »

is that a fake Wink, but yes seems that it run very well on your computer ... so .. why not on other ??

EDIT : note that I did not show other functionality in the video cause it will for sure open a "network error", you seems to be ble to click everywhere without getting such network error, seem unreal for me

Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #111 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:29:27 »

is that a fake Wink, but yes seems that it run very well on your computer ... so .. why not on other ??

Ahahah! It was funny that you and I both posted videos this morning!

Not a fake at all, you all should know me by now.  The app has worked fine for me from day one. And on a Mac no less!  I am at a loss as to why others are having such issues with the store.  From loading the apps, dragging, pulling up the description windows, etc., all very snappy.

And system spec: 2.16GHz Core Duo, 2GB RAM, latest version of SnowLeopard.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #112 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:52:07 »

Ahahah! It was funny that you and I both posted videos this morning!
afternoon for me ( pretty fun yes, but... for the video... you was 10min late ! ) that "may" explain network latency and error but not those hang when dragging an Icon (maybe a JavaFX/Java/Vista issue only)

Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #113 - Posted 2009-11-10 16:58:06 »

afternoon for me ( pretty fun yes, but... for the video... you was 10min late ! ) that "may" explain network latency and error but not those hang when dragging an Icon (maybe a JavaFX/Java/Vista issue only)

Should not be an issue for the server errors and would ask that you log that at the developer site for the JavaStore.

As for JavaFX/Java/VISTA, perhaps....would be odd to see better performance on OSX over WinX platform, especially for something like this.

Also, I wonder, how many people with network resolution issues are running on Vista?

Offline JL235

JGO Coder


Medals: 10



« Reply #114 - Posted 2009-11-10 17:07:02 »

As for JavaFX/Java/VISTA, perhaps....would be odd to see better performance on OSX over WinX platform, especially for something like this.
Agreed. IMHO I usually find Java works the best and most consistently on Windows.
Also, I wonder, how many people with network resolution issues are running on Vista?
I'm running Vista.

Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #115 - Posted 2009-11-10 17:11:29 »

Here is another video I just made (again, excuse the video recording watermark) of the JavaStore running, installing several apps, all running at the same time, closing them then uninstalling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTM1KqlWiTA

Offline TheAnalogKid

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Projects: 2



« Reply #116 - Posted 2009-11-10 17:15:54 »

I'm running Vista 32 bits. Could it cause some the slowness issues I had? Should not. I want to be clear here. The slowness I'm referring to is about perceived performance. Typical example is the mouse over event for buttons, which changes the button border color to somewhat orange. I noticed like 0.5 sec or less I think but that doesn't mean the app is slow. If it's not slow then I think that that mouse over event gives a bad impression about the app performance. But still, the progress indicator at start-up didn't animate at all, it was really jerky. Again, the animation didn't take a long time (like a couple of secs) but there was no smoothness. To me and for the majority of end users, smoothness of transitions and perceived performance is very important! But the app store doesn't seem to successfully achieve this requirement.

Offline h3ckboy

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« Reply #117 - Posted 2009-11-10 18:08:21 »

well, I couldnt even connect to the server so....

edit: oh wait, it did work the second time, but for the record, if it doesnt work the first, then that is a problem!

edit#2: OH WAIT! it got dced as soon as I tried to go anywhere Tongue

but in their defence.... The dropdown menu did respond within a second(just like is expected of an 8 year olds program)
Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #118 - Posted 2009-11-10 18:15:03 »

well, I couldnt even connect to the server so....

edit: oh wait, it did work the second time, but for the record, if it doesnt work the first, then that is a problem!

edit#2: OH WAIT! it got dced as soon as I tried to go anywhere Tongue

but in their defence.... The dropdown menu did respond within a second(just like is expected of an 8 year olds program)

Well, again, I have not experienced a single issue you are talking about.  Also, can you please let us know what OS/platform you are running on?

Offline TheAnalogKid

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Projects: 2



« Reply #119 - Posted 2009-11-10 18:22:24 »

Same issue here now.

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