Oracle buying Sun

[ChrisM]

It would be real shame if the Java VM dies for the browser. I believe it's the best way forward for integrating "real" applications into the browser, if only they managed to modularize it and improve startup-time.Sadly, in terms for graphics, Flash is king.

Got this one wrong a bit. Java crushes Flash when it comes to graphics capabilities. Even Flash devs will admit that. Flash, however, does have fantastic tools. That's where Flash shines.

[Mr_Light]

i think this link hasn't been posted yet:
http://www.oracle.com/sun/sun-faq.pdf



time will show

Interesting

This I didn't know:

The Sun Solaris operating system is the leading platform for the Oracle database.

Sounds like good news for (open)solaris - I'm still thinking of buying that Toshiba notebook with opensolaris pre-loaded

What will Oracle do with Sun’s hardware business?
Oracle plans to grow the Sun hardware business after the closing,
protecting Sun customers’ investments and ensuring the long-term
viability of Sun products.

I guess they aren't going to sell it to Fujitsu - if you asked me last week I wouldn't have expected Oracle to enter that space.

It's also interesting how vague they are about java in that faq.

[bienator]

i found esp this item interesting:

How is this acquisition expected to impact any existing project, deployment, or services engagements?

It is not expected that this transaction will impact any existing project, deployment or services engagement.

(think about OpenOffice, Solaris, VirtualBox, NetBeans, MySql, JavaFX...)

to good to be true - time will show

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[CommanderKeith]

Does anyone know what Oracle's relationship with microsoft is?

[kappa]

Does anyone know what Oracle's relationship with microsoft is?

they pretty much hate each others guts 

[Markus_Persson]

Got this one wrong a bit. Java crushes Flash when it comes to graphics capabilities. Even Flash devs will admit that. Flash, however, does have fantastic tools. That's where Flash shines.

Well..

Flash is a lot faster and more stable when it comes to alpha blended images, unless you manage to set your java environment up just right with heaps of black voodoo magic that you can't rely on your customers to do.
Plus for rapid prototyping, flash does a lot of things for you so you don't have to worry about it. Doing a simple vector graphics importer/renderer in java is many days of development, and comes for free right out of the box in flash, with an optional bitmap caching button (right in the ide!) for speed.

Flash does suck, however.

The dirty rectangles code is seemingly random, adding/removing objects to the scenegraph can be very slow (especially in the latest version of flash), and code runs painfully slow compared to java or c.

[Cero]

I jsut gotta say oen thing, no "google is evil" off-shoots ok .

google is dangerous.

[cylab]

google is dangerous.

LOL, let's start over again 

[h3ckboy]

*goes and puts head in microwave*

[Cero]

Google is like the autocrat in the digital world in terms of information.

It is actually pretty dangerous.

But little offtopic of course =D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocracy

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[h3ckboy]

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

we have already been through it...

[Cero]

But I didn't participate last time x)

Nah no worries, aint the forum for that

[cylab]

But I didn't participate last time x)

Read it here: http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/ibm-to-buy-sun-for-7-billion/20112/view.html

[Abuse]

i think this link hasn't been posted yet:
http://www.oracle.com/sun/sun-faq.pdf



time will show

Indeed :-

Oracle can now ensure continued innovation and investment in Java technology for the benefit of customers and the Java community

Not the sort of vague assurance I would want to build a business or product upon

[Riven]

Oracle expected to axe jobs -- perhaps 10,000 -- after Sun deal

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131864

"Oracle will rapidly rationalize Sun's cost base," the firm said in a report. "This means general layoffs and a reshaping of cost centers such as services and support."

[Riven]

[sorry, forum duplicated posting after editing again]

[TheAnalogKid]

"This means general layoffs and a reshaping of cost centers such as services and support."

I hope that doesn't mean too many bad news for client side technologies. 

[SimonH]

According to the Guardian;

All round, the deal doesn't sound like bad news for Sun customers: it's better than Sun being bought by IBM, or going bust. However, some could soon find that Oracle's sales droids aren't the sort of pussy cats who'd gravitate towards Sun. Sun boss Jonathan Schwartz has been known as My Little Pony, but Larry is reputedly somewhat closer to Ming the Merciless.

Quick! Call Dan Dare!

[kappa]

Oracle expected to axe jobs -- perhaps 10,000 -- after Sun deal

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131864

"Oracle will rapidly rationalize Sun's cost base," the firm said in a report. "This means general layoffs and a reshaping of cost centers such as services and support."

damn thats 1/3 of the total number of people Sun employs. I hope we don't lose JGO.

[CommanderKeith]

That really really stinks. I hope they won't just be gutting Sun for its valuable (but boring) j2ee stuff.  Making cuts to desktop java right now would be such a waste. It feels like java is getting very close to beating flash with the new plugin and focus on the consumer...

[TheAnalogKid]

How many employees are in cost centers? I guess a lot, considering the number of products/hardware Sun has.

[Riven]

That really really stinks. I hope they won't just be gutting Sun for its valuable (but boring) j2ee stuff.  Making cuts to desktop java right now would be such a waste.

Desktop is not where the money's at. It will be the first to get its budget reduced, I think.

[TheAnalogKid]

Why would Oracle slash in such investments as JavaFX and consumer JRE? I mean, I guess Sun saw great market potential right? RIA technologies are a big market these days. That's why Adobe and Microsoft are investing that much right?

[Orangy Tang]

I wouldn't be surprised if all non-EE development (which means JavaFX, the new applet plugin, modular jre, and merging of client and server vms) to basically halt or slow down to a crawl. Get used to 1.6 ladies and gentlemen, because it's all we're getting on the client side for a long, long time.

[Riven]

Why would Oracle slash in such investments as JavaFX and consumer JRE? I mean, I guess Sun saw great market potential right? RIA technologies are a big market these days. That's why Adobe and Microsoft are investing that much right?

The problem with Sun is that they excel at techinical stuff, and have a very hard time to get the enduser-experience right. JavaFX is nowhere near Flash or Silverlight, in nearly any aspect, even performance. It's simply doomed without serious investments, and a serious look of people not too technically inclined. Additionally, Oracle took over, and they don't seem to give a rats ass about clientside.

[TheAnalogKid]

I agree JavaFX is far from mature but I don't agree it has such weaknesses. Have you looked at the language, the graphics API, the performance numbers, the natural integration with Java? Sure performance isn't at the level of many Java graphics APIs but saying it's slower than Flash or Silverlight, I don't think so? You must know that JavaFX runs in the JRE, which runs in hotspot VM, which highly and aggressively optimize code on the fly. To my knowledge, Flash and Silverlight don't have such advantages.

[Riven]

I've yet to see a JavaFX app that runs smoothly. Seriously, they tend to render a few dozen shapes and completely hog the CPU.

[TheAnalogKid]

That's not what I've seen on CPU usage. On my side it was low. Anyway, this is all due to the technology not being mature I guess.

[zammbi]

Well hopefully the next version 1.5? will fix performance.
I have seen some nice apps that is ok on the cpu though.

The first version of Silverlight was total crap and I still rarely see any SL2 apps out on the net.

[endolf]

I wouldn't be surprised if all non-EE development (which means JavaFX, the new applet plugin, modular jre, and merging of client and server vms) to basically halt or slow down to a crawl. Get used to 1.6 ladies and gentlemen, because it's all we're getting on the client side for a long, long time.

Unfortunately that's my guestimation too. Oracle are known for running a business to maximise profit. They are harsh with cutting bits that are not financially viable. It would not surprise me to see the JDK remain free (as in beer), but the J2EE runtime for commercial deployment become a paid for item, much like their existing DB products. Oracle have declared a distaste for netbeans in the past, so that might go. Java webstart, Applets, JavaFX and Swing are history unless Oracle figure out how to make money at it. J2ME might hang around as I'm sure the handset manufacturers contribute to Oracles profits, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is not much further development.

I hope I'm being overly pessimistic, ultimately only time will tell. There are still regulatory hurdles, which I think will take a few months to get approved, then after that, Oracle will have a good look at it's acquisition. I guess it will be around a year before we start to see the fall out from this.

Endolf