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  4k demo contest?  (Read 22256 times)
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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Posted 2009-04-09 20:45:06 »

I've always been intrigued by some of the visual effect demo contests that are out there, where programmers have to make the best looking visuals (no input interaction) within the confines of a few kilobytes, 64KB for some of the contests out there.

One of the rules for the 4K contest states "Must be a playable game (cannot be a pointless animation)". So, what about a contest in creating a pointless animation?

This might offer some new challenges for many in here, where the goal is not to create a game, but to create some visual animation, one that might have some storyline, in which the viewer goes on a visual journey. Programmers need to study algorithms to figure out how to procedurally generate nice looking visual patterns. This could be a benefit to some.

But I'm not quite sure if this is practical, just want to test the waters here! What you think?



edit:

Ok, here what I've gathered:

Period: June, July and August.
Juding: None. Just community voting that will be ongoing throughout the 3 month period and beyond.
Size: Maximum 4096 bytes (4 KB)
Libraries: No 3rd party libraries, just Java2D and JRE default.
JRE version: 1.5

What else do we need to define?:

Execution style: Applet and/xor Webstart?

Demo rules:
- No user interaction (mouse, keyboard input)
- Maximum of 30 or 60 seconds running
...

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #1 - Posted 2009-04-09 21:05:23 »

I'll all for it!

Much less effort, much greater results.

Maybe 8K, to allow some greater graphics, and as a clear distinction with the 4K contest

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Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #2 - Posted 2009-04-09 21:33:44 »

+1

Yeah, a different size might be best.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #3 - Posted 2009-04-09 21:58:59 »

As a demo contest, would we allow bundling LWGJL OpenGL for free, or should we stick to AWT.

AWT is best for compatibility.
OpenGL is fantastic for a demo.

Hm..

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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2009-04-09 22:05:03 »

As a demo contest, would we allow bundling LWGJL OpenGL for free, or should we stick to AWT.

AWT is best for compatibility.
OpenGL is fantastic for a demo.

Hm..

Not everyone are very adept in OpenGL, so it could put many at an disadvantage, reducing the number of participants.

I do wonder if Java2D is capable, but perhaps that's one of the goal, to find out?

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #5 - Posted 2009-04-09 22:06:11 »

Ofcourse it's most 'fun' to just mess with int[w*h]

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Offline tom
« Reply #6 - Posted 2009-04-09 23:05:39 »

I'm all for a 4k demo competition. Did a couple in assembly 10 years ago. Should limit it to 4k. Anything more is too much work.

Also don't forget the music, so start coding those softsynths Smiley

Offline tom
« Reply #7 - Posted 2009-04-09 23:11:02 »

Btw, this is what we have to compete with Smiley

http://awards.scene.org/nominees.php?cat=10
http://awards.scene.org/archive.php?cat=10&year=2007
http://awards.scene.org/archive.php?cat=10&year=2006
http://awards.scene.org/archive.php?cat=10&year=2005

Offline DzzD
« Reply #8 - Posted 2009-04-09 23:30:58 »

ho yea ! it will remember me my old ASM  Cheesy

Ofcourse it's most 'fun' to just mess with int[w*h]
++1


4k sounds good but 1k 2k 4k 8k ... doesn't make a real difference in the game to code, maybe higer size will requiere more time

I am ready to play => source code

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2009-04-10 00:30:54 »

We'll make it 4K.

I'm thinking about having this sometime in the summer, and shorter period than the 3 months, maybe 1 month would suffice, June or July.

No judges, but user based scoring.

Something a bit different Smiley

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2009-04-10 00:33:17 »


That's just astounding. I look forward to see what can be done in Java.

Too bad this has to be downloaded, and my virus program blocked one of the zip file, warning me about a Trojan... probably just unusual exe code.



Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-04-10 05:35:04 »

We'll make it 4K.
Ok.

I'm thinking about having this sometime in the summer, and shorter period than the 3 months, maybe 1 month would suffice, June or July.
Please make it at least 2 months. Sometimes just reallife kicks in, and free time gets limited.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
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Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 15
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-04-10 08:42:16 »

I suggest we either allow LWJGL/JOGL for maximum sexiness, or make it (unsigned) applet only for maximum exposure.

Play Minecraft!
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-04-10 11:22:55 »

4K => AWT
8K => OpenGL

 Lips Sealed

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Offline tom
« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-04-10 12:04:45 »

I think OpenGL should be allowed but keep the limit at 4k. An OpenGL intro would have the advantage of hardware acceleration. But its alot more verbose api, so the amount of content would be less. I'd vote on LWJGL instead of JOGL since its a less bytes to set up and you can run the whole intro in the main method. You also get OpenAL support as well. The LWJGL version should be fixed and you have to use the files provided by the organizers.

End of August would be a good deadline. Then there would be 6 months between the game and intro competitions.

Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-04-10 12:24:28 »

Darn doesn't help me, I've only done JPCT in terms of 3d...
Do we have to use openGL? ... heh

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-04-10 13:07:45 »

You can easily fake 3D with some matrix operations and your own rasterizer.

Much more fun too.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline woogley
« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-04-10 16:32:03 »

I love this idea. I'd also be open to something like the 25 Lines Contest using some visualization library like Processing or similar
Offline DzzD
« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-04-10 16:42:40 »

would be better to not allow any non-standard library, after all the game is about technic, using opengl can have some inconvenient and will be IMO less fun.

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-04-10 17:08:35 »

would be better to not allow any non-standard library, after all the game is about technic, using opengl can have some inconvenient and will be IMO less fun.

I agree.

The question is, would this proposed demo-contest be about demonstrating Java's capabilities or OpenGL's capabilities? If it's about demonstrating Java's capabilities then only the standard JRE API is allowed, same as in the 4K game contest.

I think it's well worth to see the results of Java2D-only contest before we would decide that it's rubbish and open the door for OpenGL.

For my parts, I'm confident enough we'll get pretty good looking demo's with only the Java2D API. It's enough to take a look at some of the 4K games to realize that programmers are already doing pretty cool stuff visually.


Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline tom
« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-04-10 18:35:26 »

For me the purpose of the competition is to create something cool within the rules. I don't really care about showing off Java, OpenGL or anything else.

I think it would be interesting to see what can be done with OpenGL. Shaders should compress well Smiley And its optional, you can use Java2D if you want instead.

But if it puts people off its ok by me to make the competition Java2D-only.

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-04-10 20:31:44 »

This is a cool idea. I'm in.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline DzzD
« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-04-10 20:34:56 »

about the time it is maybe better to let more than one month (for people who want to participate but are busy the month of the contest)

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-04-10 21:01:36 »

With Java4K (gameplay 4K) we just saw that 2 months is not enough.

Let's keep it 3 months, for all 4K contests.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-04-10 23:03:08 »

moved to top most.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-04-10 23:10:42 »

No 1.6, please, Apple looks like they will never release it for Mac so I'd need to do 1.5.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-04-10 23:52:57 »

Ok, here what I've gathered:

Period: June, July and August.
Juding: None. Just community voting that will be ongoing throughout the 3 month period and beyond.
Size: Maximum 4096 bytes (4 KB)
Libraries: No 3rd party libraries, just Java2D and JRE default.


What else do we need to define?:
JRE version: 1.5 or 1.6?
Execution style: Applet and/xor Webstart?

Demo rules:
- No user interaction (mouse, keyboard input)
- Maximum of 30 or 60 seconds running
...


30 or 60 sec, after initial loading, that is, k?
Java 5 is fine. It's not like we can't live without a few new classes and methods.
And anybody who relies on Java2D performance increase in Java 6, won't get it in any non Sun JVM anyway.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-04-11 05:20:00 »

Ok, here what I've gathered:

Period: June, July and August.
Juding: None. Just community voting that will be ongoing throughout the 3 month period and beyond.
Size: Maximum 4096 bytes (4 KB)
Libraries: No 3rd party libraries, just Java2D and JRE default.
JRE version: 1.5

What else do we need to define?:

Execution style: Applet and/xor Webstart?

Demo rules:
- No user interaction (mouse, keyboard input)
- Maximum of 30 or 60 seconds running
...


Sun JRE or does it have to run on any JRE?

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-04-11 07:01:16 »

I like this idea. However, I don't think it's a good idea to allow voting during the competition period. Just set a fixed voting period (say, 2 or 3 weeks) after the contest. Smiley

Offline pjt33
« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-04-11 07:39:21 »

With Java4K (gameplay 4K) we just saw that 2 months is not enough.
Really? Sure, there were entries submitted in the last month, but how many of those were started in the first month?
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