Forget Java and sun, Objective C and Apple is the future

[JoglHurt]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/fashion/05iphone.html?_r=2&em

[gouessej]

Rather go to the Androïd Market and use Java.

[appel]

UNFAIR!!! 

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[CommanderKeith]

Wow, that is really really something! Good on Ethan Nicholas!!! You know while he worked at Sun he was the driving force behind java's kernel-VM modular downloading feature.

It's such a pity that he's left Sun... but good on him for making $800k with a game!!!

[h3ckboy]

someone mentioned something about there being a way to put java on the Iphone.

cuase then people can make cash with java .

[zammbi]

I hope android goes big when its fully out, I had started learning that. I also hope that JavaFx is able to compile to android later - would save me from porting games.

[gouessej]

someone mentioned something about there being a way to put java on the Iphone.

cuase then people can make cash with java .

Yes you're right, I spoke about XMLVM and someone else spoke about a more reliable solution.

[JoglHurt]

I just don't get it why it's objective c, not c++.. Is c++, which is known to be fast, too heavy for iPhone? 

I am sticking with java cause I'm living in Nokia country.

[SunshineKiller]

I dont know if that iphone app hype is still there. You now have googles phone and the new windows 7 mobile is coming out with their store. But then again i could be wrong.

[appel]

I dont know if that iphone app hype is still there. You now have googles phone and the new windows 7 mobile is coming out with their store. But then again i could be wrong.

Remember ZUNE? 

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[TheAnalogKid]

Sure the App store is a big opportunity to sell games, but you need to have good content right? Putting any game on it doesn't mean you'll have success, unless the market is that crazy and people don't have good judgment and buy anything.

[pjt33]

Sure the App store is a big opportunity to sell games, but you need to have good content right? Putting any game on it doesn't mean you'll have success, unless the market is that crazy and people don't have good judgment and buy anything.

Bearing in mind that you're targetting people who have already spent something insane ($600?) on a phone...

[TheAnalogKid]

Well, you may have a point.

[JoglHurt]

I must say that topic header doesn't express perfectly what I think about this. It is actually indirect reference to subconversation of Thread "Should my next project be in java or C#" started by bienators joke (atleast I hope it was joke) which was something like: "forget java, Malbolge is the future".

[ewjordan]

I just don't get it why it's objective c, not c++.. Is c++, which is known to be fast, too heavy for iPhone? 

C++ works just fine on the iPhone.  You need a bit of Objective C around the "edges," but apart from that plenty of people code to it like it's plain old C++.

[ChrisM]

Well, of course there are devs making a killing. Same with EVERY platform. This was an article about someone who hit the market, right app, right time. Now, if he can follow it up with other games at similar run rates, then he is a dev shop.  Dozens of companies making millions of dollars have done this, and continue to do so, with Java.

The iPhone market is an interesting one in that it is completely targeting a single platform. This most closely reembes the console market, not the mobile market.

[CommanderKeith]

It's still a bit depressing, i mean Ethan N is an absolute java expert who has proved to himself and everyone else that his great talent is better spent at developing on the iPhone in objective c rather than in java...

Hopefully the Google phones take off and then there'll be similar opportunities!

[zammbi]

Will we see a official JavaFX market? I would really hope so...

[JoglHurt]

Yeah, timing is everything and annoyingly JVM seems to arrive always too late. But luckily things will be different with Android. I will be interesting to see will there be something like onLive on mobile phones in future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive

[ChrisM]

It's still a bit depressing, i mean Ethan N is an absolute java expert who has proved to himself and everyone else that his great talent is better spent at developing on the iPhone in objective c rather than in java...

Hopefully the Google phones take off and then there'll be similar opportunities!

The language has zero to do with it.  Apple has built n awesome channel for content, iTunes.  His great talent is not better spent developing in objective C, it is better spent, in this particular case, at developing a game for the iPhone platform.

Think of it this way.  If the iPhone used Java exclusively, and he made this game for the iPhone in Java, he would still only be able to sell it though iTunes for the iPhone and the results (all things being equal) would have been the same.  This is not a discussion really for one language over another.  Apple has a platform with a closed distribution channel.

And it is working great for them...

[Mr_Light]

While I agree with you Mr Melissinos, I'm not sure if that is what is portrayed in the article. the article sends a different message.

[irreversible_kev]

While I agree with you Mr Melissinos, I'm not sure if that is what is portrayed in the article. the article sends a different message.

You speak as if Ethan had a choice to develop for the iPhone in Java or ObjectiveC.

I know people have been speaking about Java-to-ObjectiveC convertors but they sounds fairly annoying.

I guess you're saying he shouldn't touch the iPhone since it's not Java and go for Android because it is Java?

[Mr_Light]

not at all.

If anyone I'm attacking the author of the article. I don't see anything wrong with using other languages - nor with any of the decisions made by Mr Nicholas.

I'm sorry if I gave any impression otherwise.

[ChrisM]

While I agree with you Mr Melissinos, I'm not sure if that is what is portrayed in the article. the article sends a different message.

Replace his employment and tech with Microsoft and C#.  Or Nokia and Symbian.  We are the ones focused on the fact that it is objective C, not the general audience reading the article.  It is not a negative Java article, it is one of a guy who was having trouble making ends meet, found a possible way of making some cash, hit the "app lottery" and won!

"Oh, so Java sucks which is why he developed in objective C!"
"No, there is no Java VM on the iPhone, so he didn't have a choice."
"Oh..."

Given his expertise, do you think he would have chosen objective C over Java if it was available to him on the iPhone?

not at all.

If anyone I'm attacking the author of the article. I don't see anything wrong with using other languages - nor with any of the decisions made by Mr Nicholas.

I'm sorry if I gave any impression otherwise.

I know

[Mr_Light]

Hmm perhaps I am biased and other tech-savy non-programmers don't read like I do as a java programmer.

Given that you replace it with Microsoft and c# -  yes I probably wouldn't care.
But I sure there will be some c# programmers going "hmm".


//edit
[size=8pt]Arg, why do I get the feeling I'm turning into those old, stuck C/C++ programmers I so disliked when I started out with programming.[/size]

[Cero]

one system alone wont be the future

thats the same reason why c# can never be the future and java is being subject in all universities at this time.

[appel]

If you guys are hopelessly hopeless about Java as a platform that enables a lot of people to play your game, just look at how many have played Miners4K (nearly 100,000) and Left 4K Dead (probably tens of thousands by now in just 4 months, not counted on Java4K as most of the clicks bypassed Java4K, but I know this for a fact since Java4K has received 22,000 visitors from mojang.com, and I assume that's only a portion of the players).

These aren't HUGE numbers, but they aren't too shabby considering the limited scope of the audience.

But not all are as talented as Markus

[ryanm]

I think the useful lesson to take away from the iphone is that if you're selling something make it trivially easy for people to give you money.

On the app store it's a couple of taps and a password (is the password even mandatory?) and you're done.

Contrast this with a normal internet transaction:

• Pull out your credit card (thereby reminding you of the distressing multi-page statement tomes that are wedged through your letterbox every month)
• Note with annoyance that the card has developed a stress fracture where you pull it out of your wallet, necessitating interaction with some byzantine phone-maze in bangalore to get a new one.
• Find the correct angle to bring the 16-digit card number into relief so that you can see the thing now that the silvering has rubbed off in your wallet
• Carefully type the number in, flicking your focus from screen to carefully-aligned card to check for errors
• Enter the CCV, and inwardly marvel at this astonishing piece of security technology: A number that is not only different, it's on the back of the card! Ye gods! That'll keep fraudsters at bay for sure!
• Fill in your name and address, being careful to type it exactly as your bank has it. Can you abbreviate? Does case matter? Who knows, but you'll have to repeat this whole rigmarole if you get it wrong! If you're lucky there'll be one of those postcode-lookup thingies, which is great as long as your address is on it. I used to live at 3/6 Coburg St. The dropdown list would go "...3/4, 3/5, 3/7, 3/8..." FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU...
• You get prompted for your "Verified by Visa"^[TM] password in a form that looks nothing like the rest of the page but has nevertheless been plonked right in the middle of it. The sight of this form has inspired hazy memories of violence and hate, but the password eludes you
• Bracing yourself for a full biometric scan, click the "Forgotten your password?" link to confirm your identity
• Get very very angry when the entire confirmation process consists of entering your date of birth
• Enter your password as a sequence of rude words that call into question the ancestry, personal hygiene and sexual predilections of the "Verified by Visa"^[TM] initiative
• After being primly informed that your password must be between 8 and 16 characters with at least 1 numeral and 1 non-alphanumeric character, go and have a bit of a lie down until you can unclench your jaw and blood stops squirting out of your eyes
• Confirm your new extremely profane and poorly spelled password, and then promptly forget it as the full realisation sinks in: To be "Verified by Visa"^[TM], a fraudster must know either a) your carefully vetted password that is given the full protection of modern cryptographic techniques, or b) your date of birth
• Regain consciousness some time later, force your hands to stop crushing invisible trachea, and complete the transaction

Again the point: Every hoop that a customer has to jump through to give you money will give them time and cause to think "Do I really want this? Can I be bothered? Nah, screw it, I'll just get it off a torrent/do without".

[TheAnalogKid]

Yeah, probably true but if the game is really good then people won't be discouraged to follow a longer process in order to have the game. Kinda Wii case here; still really hard to buy one but people are ready to do anything to have one. I was lucky enough to buy one online more than a year ago.

[ChrisM]

I think the useful lesson to take away from the iphone is that if you're selling something make it trivially easy for people to give you money.

This.