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  The main problem with this community  (Read 19056 times)
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Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #90 - Posted 2009-04-05 21:30:49 »

That's the problem... if one doesn't know what the criteria are to go showing people stuff, one should probably go back to doing research on the matter first.

Cas Smiley

Offline pjt33
« Reply #91 - Posted 2009-04-05 21:59:16 »

I almost never look in Showcase because usually it's just full of crap half-finished rubbish
Coming back to this comment, it did occur to me today that the same is true of Kongregate. Check out the "New games" section and it's full of "My first maze game" and "HOWTO on custom cursors". The difference is that it's not a forum, so it organises by things other than date, and the rating system and number of visitors allow it to bury the crap and, dare I say it, showcase the good stuff.
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #92 - Posted 2009-04-06 00:45:22 »

I'm dismayed that Kev has decided to quit the forum - I always felt that he added a lot.  I really hope that he reconsiders.

Personally, I love this community.  Yes, there is a lot of dross out there - I don't see that as a problem, I just don't play it all.  There are a few people who usually have something worthwhile to say, and I tend to watch what they have to say.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline DzzD
« Reply #93 - Posted 2009-04-06 00:54:29 »

I agree - let the Showcase be complete games, and possibly add a couple other forums:
1. Gameplay experiments
2. Works-in-progress

A wiki would be great, since over time a lot of the same questions get asked again and again.

As for attracting artists here - well, I really don't see how that's going to happen. Processing attract artists; maybe JavaFX eventually will.

+1 a WIP section would be good and exist in most forum

Offline SunshineKiller

Junior Member





« Reply #94 - Posted 2009-04-06 01:27:51 »

If we did do a showcase and a wip section, we would have to form a rule or two, or a guidelines post on what determines an completed game, and maybe require a simple template posting guideline, to help present games.

<b>Check out my Development Blog:</b> <a href="http://www.scottscreations.com">Scotts Creations</a> | <b>Games in Development: </b> <a href="http://mechwarfare.scottscreations.com">Mech Warfare</a> | Mech Warfare: Facebook Edition | Game Master
Offline Gudradain
« Reply #95 - Posted 2009-04-06 02:27:25 »

The system to differentiate the complete game of the uncomplete game doesn't have to be perfect. You will always have people posting in the wrong section but having a wip section and a showcase section would still greatly help.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #96 - Posted 2009-04-06 04:37:22 »

The system to differentiate the complete game of the uncomplete game doesn't have to be perfect. You will always have people posting in the wrong section but having a wip section and a showcase section would still greatly help.
I don't want any litigious situation. What would happen if an author puts his game in the section containing complete games and the moderator moves it into the section of incomplete games whereas the author considers his game to be complete?

Offline Gudradain
« Reply #97 - Posted 2009-04-06 06:09:57 »

I don't want any litigious situation. What would happen if an author puts his game in the section containing complete games and the moderator moves it into the section of incomplete games whereas the author considers his game to be complete?

Is it that much of a problem? People will still be able to see your game and some work in progress (WIP) might still be great game too. You can't say that in general it wouldn't help, can you?

It's sure that sometimes great 'complete' game will be put in WIP and horrible game will be in showcase. You can't get around that. Even the best definition of a complete game won't solve that, but I still think a WIP section would be great.

N.B. A failed game section might be the solution to horrible complete game but I don't think it's correct to put a section like that...
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #98 - Posted 2009-04-06 09:12:28 »

If it weren't for JGO I'd probably would never have gotten into game programming. So, hats off for ChrisM and associates Smiley

I can say much the same. Javagaming.org and the 4k competitions in particular is what kept my interest in games development up, which ultimately is one of the main reasons I chose to study computer science (which I've now been doing for almost four years).

I think it's been and still is a great community, and it is by far the forum I've been the most active in. Which implies it's an interesting and entertaining community!

With that said, I'm sure one could make improvements in some areas. You always can. However, I'd like to extend my sincere thanks to everybody who's been shaping and participating in this community. You're great! Smiley

Offline DzzD
« Reply #99 - Posted 2009-04-06 17:13:24 »

I don't want any litigious situation. What would happen if an author puts his game in the section containing complete games and the moderator moves it into the section of incomplete games whereas the author considers his game to be complete?


maybe only moderator should be able to put game in the showcase (getting them from the WIP), so it will make a clean Showcase, when the WIP will become the actual Showcase

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #100 - Posted 2009-04-06 17:15:29 »

What would happen if an author puts his game in the section containing complete games and the moderator moves it into the section of incomplete games whereas the author considers his game to be complete?
This would still be informative to the creator.  Hopefully, he/she would realize that the rest of society does not consider the game to be complete, and then has two choices: a) Screw them!, since they don't know what they're thinking, or b) improve the game with the advice from the WIP.

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #101 - Posted 2009-04-06 17:19:49 »

I know there are alot of categories already.

But if its really bugging people. maybe have an extra category.

keep current showcase as polished app.
and the new category: Bug test request.

then modirators can move topics in the wrong location.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #102 - Posted 2009-04-06 19:41:48 »

How can we get more artists to be involved in Java gaming?
How can we get Java on Xbox 360 and iPhone so that ordinary developers take it seriously?

Cas Smiley

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #103 - Posted 2009-04-06 20:01:04 »

How can we get more artists to be involved in Java gaming?
How can we get Java on Xbox 360 and iPhone so that ordinary developers take it seriously?

Cas Smiley
gonna reply to this post in another thread, the title of this one is really starting to get old.


My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #104 - Posted 2009-04-06 20:14:49 »

Got to say, I'm not sure why the title got changed, the community's ace really. We just need to move the game on from where it's sat for the last 5 years.

Cas Smiley

Offline atomhamster

Senior Newbie





« Reply #105 - Posted 2009-04-06 21:07:07 »

wow. im missing so much. i usually browse through the games showcase, read the online part and then im off. i just found this discussion.


about missing feedback:
lets me honest: some showcases don't show much. they have a jnlp link, a short description and are simply not asking for specific feedback. if graphics are crappy, but intentionally temporary, i want to know that before i post! i don't want to say "improve the visuals" if it's just coders art. i rarely see a description of how complete the game is or what's intended to follow! some people don't like to install, just to see what's happening, if anything. i tend to give feedback on interesting games, which is subjective. i don't like tower-defense that much.

if you want to get better feedback, make sure to offer something and ask for some kind of help. let us know how you reflect your efforts and what you want to achieve.
also, jgo is not a feedback community for games for me. it is a limited audience in the first place (coders of java) and that limits the feedback more. don't expect too much, id say.


about updates on the same game: if there are too many and the differences get blurred or minimal, people won't test again because of "new title image", e.g.. bigger updates should get their own post maybe. close the old thread and re-start the feedback getting with new questions. it's hard to follow through 15 pages of posts and follow the intention of the developer.


ideas:
  • there should definitely be a guide, how to post showcases!
  • encourage to post versions in different posts (with version in title, close old)
  • maybe add a system to give quick-feedback in form of a survey?

the latter idea would be to have each showcase be accompanied with a survey. those that see the screens or test can give feedback, without writing and the developer has to come up with a few votable questions.


i think blogs would be fine, but maybe they could simply be integrated, not stored/created on jgo? like a RSS feed, where developers could register their blogs and jgo would get the latest posts of some of those on a page?


please: don't start a wiki. to make this useful, it would be a lot of work and housekeeping. also don't add more sub-forums. they don't organize everything by themselfs.


princec: i disagree: we don't need to focus on the 90% that's missing. it's fine to have a page with crappy coders art and all. but it should be about the game idea then or the execution. something that's worth commenting. if the shown game is just a pacman clone, i don't want to post lots about it. there are blueprints for those remakes: the originals! my advice: be more realistic maybe. that does not mean you have to say "it's shit i know", but something like: "i would like to have better graphics, but i focus on gameplay" or something like that.

jgo is a java game developer community. it's not an artist community. while it's nice to get more art in the games and better visuals, that's simply not the site to attract art-guys. maybe we should communicate where to find game artists though! or we should be fine with coder art.


i like this community. even though im bickering and don't give feedback  =)
Offline gouessej
« Reply #106 - Posted 2009-04-06 21:11:37 »


maybe only moderator should be able to put game in the showcase (getting them from the WIP), so it will make a clean Showcase, when the WIP will become the actual Showcase
It does not sound good.

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #107 - Posted 2009-04-06 21:18:24 »

It does not sound good.
I agree.
Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #108 - Posted 2009-04-06 21:42:46 »

wow. im missing so much. i usually browse through the games showcase, read the online part and then im off. i just found this discussion.


about missing feedback:
lets me honest: some showcases don't show much. they have a jnlp link, a short description and are simply not asking for specific feedback. if graphics are crappy, but intentionally temporary, i want to know that before i post! i don't want to say "improve the visuals" if it's just coders art. i rarely see a description of how complete the game is or what's intended to follow! some people don't like to install, just to see what's happening, if anything. i tend to give feedback on interesting games, which is subjective. i don't like tower-defense that much.

if you want to get better feedback, make sure to offer something and ask for some kind of help. let us know how you reflect your efforts and what you want to achieve.
also, jgo is not a feedback community for games for me. it is a limited audience in the first place (coders of java) and that limits the feedback more. don't expect too much, id say.


about updates on the same game: if there are too many and the differences get blurred or minimal, people won't test again because of "new title image", e.g.. bigger updates should get their own post maybe. close the old thread and re-start the feedback getting with new questions. it's hard to follow through 15 pages of posts and follow the intention of the developer.


ideas:
  • there should definitely be a guide, how to post showcases!
  • encourage to post versions in different posts (with version in title, close old)
  • maybe add a system to give quick-feedback in form of a survey?

the latter idea would be to have each showcase be accompanied with a survey. those that see the screens or test can give feedback, without writing and the developer has to come up with a few votable questions.


i think blogs would be fine, but maybe they could simply be integrated, not stored/created on jgo? like a RSS feed, where developers could register their blogs and jgo would get the latest posts of some of those on a page?


please: don't start a wiki. to make this useful, it would be a lot of work and housekeeping. also don't add more sub-forums. they don't organize everything by themselfs.


princec: i disagree: we don't need to focus on the 90% that's missing. it's fine to have a page with crappy coders art and all. but it should be about the game idea then or the execution. something that's worth commenting. if the shown game is just a pacman clone, i don't want to post lots about it. there are blueprints for those remakes: the originals! my advice: be more realistic maybe. that does not mean you have to say "it's shit i know", but something like: "i would like to have better graphics, but i focus on gameplay" or something like that.

jgo is a java game developer community. it's not an artist community. while it's nice to get more art in the games and better visuals, that's simply not the site to attract art-guys. maybe we should communicate where to find game artists though! or we should be fine with coder art.


i like this community. even though im bickering and don't give feedback  =)
I really like this idea.
Offline Json

Junior Member


Exp: 7 years



« Reply #109 - Posted 2009-04-14 15:38:21 »

I've not been here that long myself but I've found this community to be very helpful and supportive of each other and even though I've seen some really weird and stupid questions they're always answered in the politest manner.

I'm usually not the person to dive head in and reply to threads when I join a community but I prefer to stay on the edge and read up, after all there is a lot of history on these boards.

Another idea which might already have been mentioned would be to create a wiki at JGO where people can post pages about their game and update them as they release new versions.

Keep up the good spirit everyone!

// Json
Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #110 - Posted 2009-04-14 16:27:35 »

It does not sound good.

+1
Offline Ru5tyNZ

Senior Newbie





« Reply #111 - Posted 2009-04-14 20:46:51 »

It does not sound good.

I think it's quite acceptable - providing the moderators are reasonable (which I'm sure they will be).

Finding solutions to the apparent weaknesses in this community is of the uttermost importance to furthering JGO's success.

I regularly check JGO but do not contribute much. I've found it extremely valuable whilst pursuing game development.

The loss of Kevin is saddening but I'm sure he will return when he is ready.
Offline lhkbob

JGO Knight


Medals: 32



« Reply #112 - Posted 2009-04-14 23:21:38 »

I think it's quite acceptable - providing the moderators are reasonable (which I'm sure they will be).

Finding solutions to the apparent weaknesses in this community is of the uttermost importance to furthering JGO's success.

I regularly check JGO but do not contribute much. I've found it extremely valuable whilst pursuing game development.

The loss of Kevin is saddening but I'm sure he will return when he is ready.

In theory I would agree, but if we went with it, our moderators would have to do even more work and upkeep.  Given that one is looking for help, and the other quit because of too much effort I'd say we need a another approach.

Although more complicated, perhaps we could have a vote system, a game in WIP can be posted with a vote counter to see how many people think its worthy of "completion".  If it reaches high enough, a moderator can easily check and move it over.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #113 - Posted 2009-04-15 00:24:00 »

In theory I would agree, but if we went with it, our moderators would have to do even more work and upkeep.  Given that one is looking for help, and the other quit because of too much effort I'd say we need a another approach.

Although more complicated, perhaps we could have a vote system, a game in WIP can be posted with a vote counter to see how many people think its worthy of "completion".  If it reaches high enough, a moderator can easily check and move it over.
nice idea

Offline Ru5tyNZ

Senior Newbie





« Reply #114 - Posted 2009-04-15 07:12:12 »

In theory I would agree, but if we went with it, our moderators would have to do even more work and upkeep.  Given that one is looking for help, and the other quit because of too much effort I'd say we need a another approach.

Although more complicated, perhaps we could have a vote system, a game in WIP can be posted with a vote counter to see how many people think its worthy of "completion".  If it reaches high enough, a moderator can easily check and move it over.

Sounds like a great idea but how much time would be required to create and integrate such a system?

Would be great if show case games were all presented in a standard format and possibly locked.

1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
Title:
Author:
Description:
Download/Web start:
Discussion/Feedback thread link?:
[Screenshots]


Maybe even change the existing "showcase" section to "work in progress" and some lovely volunteer(s) pull together a revamped showcase section. There are some real gems in there but it's often difficult to find them.

There are some great ideas in this thread keep them coming  Smiley

Quote
It is through cooperation, rather than conflict, that your greatest successes will be derived.
Online princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #115 - Posted 2009-04-15 11:47:36 »

TBH I think Java gaming, (as opposed to just java-gaming.org), needs a big money injection and some serious backing.

Cas Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #116 - Posted 2009-04-15 12:03:47 »

TBH I think Java gaming, (as opposed to just java-gaming.org), needs a big money injection and some serious backing.

Cas Smiley

Yes please!  Grin

Let me see, who's out there with a big pile of money they don't need... hm... the U.S. government never seems to run out. Let's lobby U.S. congress!

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #117 - Posted 2009-04-15 13:24:51 »

Yes please!  Grin

Let me see, who's out there with a big pile of money they don't need... hm... the U.S. government never seems to run out. Let's lobby U.S. congress!

too bad that the U.S  government is completely broke/ in extreme debt.
Offline ryanm

Senior Member


Projects: 1
Exp: 15 years


Used to be bleb


« Reply #118 - Posted 2009-04-15 13:46:39 »

too bad that the U.S  government is completely broke/ in extreme debt.
This has not proved to be an obstacle to further spending.
Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #119 - Posted 2009-04-15 13:54:43 »

This has not proved to be an obstacle to further spending.

so true....
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