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  The main problem with this community  (Read 20195 times)
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Offline CyanPrime
« Posted 2009-04-03 21:23:42 »

I'll be honest, I'm not really feeling the love enough to do this, which is a shame, as I normally love helping out communities. I really feel like me and my games aren't cared about here. I get very little feedback, if any, and most people who do give feed back never check my games out again to see what's different. Maybe if there was a review swap like place where I could go post five reviews for other peoples games, than in return get five back I'd feel more like people even noticed me here, but right now I just don't think that this, or any other java community is worth putting any effort into helping. I think we need to have tighter bonds here and more usefullness before we ask something like this.

Post taken from here.


You'll need to visit that thread to get the context for what I'm saying for some things, but you should be able to get the point without it if you just aren't interested enough to click it.
Offline noblemaster

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:04:38 »

I fully agree with you. There are lots of discouraging post. The problem was brought up before, but nothing has changed . That's the reason I stopped posting here...

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #2 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:12:03 »

That's really sad that it's came up before and nothing was done.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 3
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #3 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:33:52 »

Well, the attitude here is why we just had one of our longest and most valued members delete his account.  KevGlass is no longer a member here at JGO.  Why?  It has devolved from a community of helping each other to too much bickering and fighting.

To be honest, my limited attention I was able to give here is decreasing with my new responsibilities at Sun.  So....

I am going to be looking for someone, or a group, to turn JGO over to run, improve, and buildout.  If there is anyone here that is wants to run JGO as a volunteer, PM me.  After a bit of time, I will put it to a vote in the community and use that to determine how this gets transitioned.

JGO has been here for 8 years now and some remarkable stuff has come out of the community.  As with all growth, it has hit a point in the curve where things need to change and we need others to step up and help.

-Chris

Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 3
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #4 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:39:24 »

That's really sad that it's came up before and nothing was done.

Sorry, but you have not been here long enough to see what went into getting JGO off the ground and the transitions it underwent.  This site generates no revenue, does not accept any advertising, etc.  Jeff and I ran it for ever, I did all of the implementation online and it's not my core job.  I always wanted it to be more than it ultimately became, and the first site iterations showed this (news, articles, demos, etc.)

Part of the frustration is having community members say "it sucks!" "you should do this or that" and offer no answers or assistance, just complaints.  Now, don't get me wrong, I understand.  Those of you on the forums here who have known me for years know the work that has been done thus far.  Just sorry I could not push it further.

As I said in my previous post, I am looking for others to step up and run the site.  This includes making changes, adding features, etc.  PM if you have any interest in helping to helm JGO.  And, if you make demands, please be ready to volunteer to implement.

Offline CyanPrime
« Reply #5 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:42:02 »

KevGlass deleted his account? Man, that really sucks. He helped me out on my website.  Sad
I hope this isn't a trend, or JGO really will end up sucking (or sucking more, depending on who you ask)  Sad

ChrisM, maybe you should try adding a review swap subforum. The topic worked out nicely, and I think it'd be helpful to everyone.
Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 3
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #6 - Posted 2009-04-03 23:45:01 »

KevGlass deleted his account? Man, that really sucks. He helped me out on my website.  Sad
I hope this isn't a trend, or JGO really will end up sucking (or sucking more, depending on who you ask)  Sad

ChrisM, maybe you should try adding a review swap subforum. The topic worked out nicely, and I think it'd be helpful to everyone.

Don't know if it's a trend, but we need to step up as a community to fix things if we want to keep this community growing.  I no longer have the cycles to really run JGO.  For those of you who have not heard, I was just named Sun's Chief Evangelist and Chief Gaming Officer.  So, lots more work and much less time to do it in. 

Keep the PMs coming!

Offline noblemaster

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2009-04-04 00:14:58 »

Let's invite some girls to the forums  Grin

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 68
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2009-04-04 00:32:04 »

If it weren't for JGO I'd probably would never have gotten into game programming. So, hats off for ChrisM and associates Smiley


I've been an "online participant" for 16 years now, long enough for me to know how these things work. I've developed an impenetrable skin against the bickering that seems to be a constant for online communities, which I've had the "pleasure" of managing.

In the end, the bickering doesn't matter. I selectively don't participate in it. Stressing myself about something I don't have to stress myself about is pointless. Take this post as an example, if I were ChrisM I'd probably just ignore it, not my concern. Trying to convince others of something is futile, but good luck with it. Personally, I just do whatever I enjoy and feel like I have fun doing. What others think doesn't really matter to me.


CyanPrime: You're trying to convince people of doing something they might not care about doing. Figuring out how to make them do it without having to convince them is KEY. Until you figure that out, your time is better spent on things that you enjoy.

Hopefully that's convincing enough Wink

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
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Offline brackeen

Junior Devvie





« Reply #9 - Posted 2009-04-04 00:54:03 »

Frankly I don't think java-gaming.org is a bad community at all. Yes sometimes people say thing bluntly or without tact, and people may have strong differing opinions,  but it's nothing like the comments you'll get on other message boards. And anonymous review sites are even worse. Which reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/202/

Anyway, I hope we can keep the community going. Gratz ChrisM on your new position!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #10 - Posted 2009-04-04 01:57:15 »

Its sad that KevGlass deleted his account.
The reason why I come to JGO in the first place was because I didn't like the community over at the Java site. I still think its better. But maybe there needs to be more people here to improve JGO.
I don't see why you don't add a Google add to the bottom of the site?

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline SimonH
« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-04-04 02:18:57 »

I think JGO is one of the best forums going - almost no trolls and solid (albeit sometimes harsh) advice given to people.
I hope kevglass is OK, it's sad when someone leaves without saying goodbye but I'm sure he has his reasons. I'm fussy about who I respect but he gets max respect from me. Good on you Kev - come back when you can!

Does JGO suck? No.

People make games and games make people
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-04-04 02:57:27 »

Don't know if it's a trend, but we need to step up as a community to fix things if we want to keep this community growing.  I no longer have the cycles to really run JGO.  For those of you who have not heard, I was just named Sun's Chief Evangelist and Chief Gaming Officer.  So, lots more work and much less time to do it in. 

Congrats?

I hope you'll still be able to write some blog posts.

on topic fostering a community is simply hard - don't most AAA games have community managers -sometimes even one per locale- these days?

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline Xyle
« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-04-04 03:46:22 »

This is a sad post indeed...

JGO is the first in my list of java/gaming forums, the first I look through and the first I respond to. I do believe there is a very strong community here and definitely a much appreciated one. If I had to pick the 1 forum out of the 8 or so I frequent, JGO is definitely the best. Hopefully the community can and will pull it together to keep it going.


Life is just a game, learn to play!
------------------------------------------
╬-YellzBellz Games!-╬ Cheesy
Offline SunshineKiller

Junior Devvie





« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-04-04 04:21:36 »

im fairly new and I do not think JGO sucks. Sure people say some negative things, or do not check your revision of code and comment on your new release. People are busy and it's hard to check up on every new post and staying with old posts with new versions of a game. I never felt ignored or was told off that I suck. I think JGO is great. Way better than most forums Smiley Sad KevGlass is gone, and congratz on the promotion, thats really awesome.

<b>Check out my Development Blog:</b> <a href="http://www.scottscreations.com">Scotts Creations</a> | <b>Games in Development: </b> <a href="http://mechwarfare.scottscreations.com">Mech Warfare</a> | Mech Warfare: Facebook Edition | Game Master
Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-04-04 06:27:45 »

I just joined a little while ago. and am already senior member. People are so active it isnt like other forums where you wait 4 days for a reply. Or for someone to aska  qeustion.

Life without JGO would be dark and lonesome Sad. what else would I do wiht my time Wink
Offline gouessej
« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-04-04 07:52:51 »

Part of the frustration is having community members say "it sucks!" "you should do this or that" and offer no answers or assistance, just complaints.  Now, don't get me wrong, I understand.  Those of you on the forums here who have known me for years know the work that has been done thus far.  Just sorry I could not push it further.
I agree with you but when I complained about the fact that some people complained but didn't offer any assistance about the previous JGT, you said that they had not to help me, you're not coherent.

I just joined a little while ago. and am already senior member. People are so active it isnt like other forums where you wait 4 days for a reply. Or for someone to aska  qeustion.

Life without JGO would be dark and lonesome Sad. what else would I do wiht my time Wink
I have the same feeling. It is important to get some feedback and some help, it is a nice place. I don't think JGO sucks. I don't think that the JGT sucks even though I disagree with the way it has been done.

Frankly I don't think java-gaming.org is a bad community at all. Yes sometimes people say thing bluntly or without tact, and people may have strong differing opinions,  but it's nothing like the comments you'll get on other message boards. And anonymous review sites are even worse. Which reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/202/
Lol, tact is not my cup of tea but I test almost all Java games here even though I don't have enough time to post more frequently.

Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-04-04 09:16:40 »

JGO rocks! I've never seen a better community.

There are so many people here who are willing to help out. That's tragic about Kev, he helped me learn how to do webstart...

Congrats Chris about the promotion!

EDIT:
One thing that i think might be a problem is the rank system on the forum. It encourages new members to post lots and lots to achieve non-n00b status which is not good... Maybe the rank should depend on the time since you first joined JGO instead of the post-count.

Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-04-04 09:41:55 »

Being a JGO strike force isnt gunna change anyything. people wont worship you.

they will check how good you actually are.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-04-04 09:56:26 »

Javagaming.org most certainly does not suck! It's one of the very few forums I frequent, and very much enjoy seeing what people make and reading discussions on different matters.
When I feel I have something to add, I do, and the java 4k competitions are just amazingly entertaining.

I've met many people on these forums, and I have much respect for many people here. Kev is probably one of the people I respect the most, and least expected to ragequit. If you're reading this kev, I want you to know I consider you a very talented and good person.

Play Minecraft!
Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-04-04 10:20:01 »

JGO is without a doubt the best internet community I've yet come across. Possibly tied with indiegamer.

Cas Smiley

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-04-04 10:46:10 »

I don't think that this community sucks. Maybe it's drying out a little bit, because talented people are leaving for whatever reason (like Flash... Grin ), but apart from that, it's fine. I do think that feedback aside from technical statements is very limited here. This isn't the right place to ask a question about game play. It's the right place to get comments on NullPointerExceptions. I consider myself to be part of that problem, because commenting the 1000th clone of Tetris/Breakout or Pong gameplay wise isn't what i usually do, unless it doesn't work and throws an Exception. It would be great if this could be improved somehow IHMO, but i'm not sure how...

Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-04-04 10:56:30 »

It has nothing to do wiht you that there are some of your games that arent replied to.

Some people jsut are to lazy to try the game.

I am sure I have missed a few really great games.

I know how you feel. when you are kinda talking to a wall.

read the TUER thread. there is like 10 pages of him talking to a wall. People still played the game though. And people commented at times.
Offline pjt33
« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:04:14 »

I agree with you but when I complained about the fact that some people complained but didn't offer any assistance about the previous JGT, you said that they had not to help me, you're not coherent.
Consistent, not coherent. It's a false friend.

One thing that i think might be a problem is the rank system on the forum. It encourages new members to post lots and lots to achieve non-n00b status which is not good... Maybe the rank should depend on the time since you first joined JGO instead of the post-count.
That would jump me up the ranks! I joined about 7 years ago to make one post, and had forgotten. I was quite surprised when I tried to sign up to ask a question in the Java4k 2009 forum and discovered that my username had already been taken.
Offline DzzD
« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:13:07 »

JGO is without a doubt the best internet community I've yet come across. Possibly tied with indiegamer.

Cas Smiley
fully agreed, active and very sympatic community and the right place for everybody to ask for solution when they dont found somewhere else an answer, like the last chance Smiley, really the best I ve meet and the forum-website just run fine.

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:23:22 »

Well, the attitude here is why we just had one of our longest and most valued members delete his account.  KevGlass is no longer a member here at JGO.  Why?  It has devolved from a community of helping each other to too much bickering and fighting.
What the hell? thats INSANE! not KEV!

Quote
To be honest, my limited attention I was able to give here is decreasing with my new responsibilities at Sun.  So....
I am going to be looking for someone, or a group, to turn JGO over to run, improve, and buildout.  If there is anyone here that is wants to run JGO as a volunteer, PM me.  After a bit of time, I will put it to a vote in the community and use that to determine how this gets transitioned.
JGO has been here for 8 years now and some remarkable stuff has come out of the community.  As with all growth, it has hit a point in the curve where things need to change and we need others to step up and help.
For those of you who have not heard, I was just named Sun's Chief Evangelist and Chief Gaming Officer.
Very cool man. I wish you didnt have stop with JGO on such a negative note, with people on the forum complaining. You have done an excelent job. I really wish it was done in a spirit of celebration.


Something personal in regards to my attitude on this forum. I only check three forum, LWJGL JGO, and lastly Dream In Code (just to remind myself how bad most public developer forums are).

JGO is great its offered me alot of help and ways to help developers "1 step behind me" to catch up.


One thing though, There are a few old time members (clearly Kev, but others as well) who I believe dont relise that when it comes to topics, they have the final word. You guys have the experience and know how. so If there ever is a problem or tone, that you feel isnt exceptable. Just say "enough". not with the whole JGO completely. But yeah, i love reading what you guys have to say. even if it means going through 2 pages of noob posts.

THERE IS NO OTHER GOOD JAVA DEVELOPING FORUM!!!

man what a downer. Im upset.

kingaschi I also understand you were met with alot of negativity with JGO some time ago. Yet I really respect that you persevered in delivering a good site.

My Projects
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Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:25:10 »

Oh 1 other thing. CyanPrime please change the name of the Thread out of consideration. I honestly think it served its purpose in raising community awareness.

My Projects
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Offline h3ckboy

JGO Coder


Medals: 5



« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:31:14 »

Oh 1 other thing. CyanPrime please change the name of the Thread out of consideration. I honestly think it served its purpose in raising community awareness.

how do you chang e athreads name? I hav ewondered for quite a while
Offline steveyO
« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:34:16 »

JGO is in my top 3-5 websites I visit when connecting to the net and has been the case for around 5 years or so.
I cant say I agree with the opinion that this site sucks!  I find that most members on here are extremely more knowledgable on gaming than myself (hence my low post count) and generally very helpful and clearly very refreshingly intelligent for the net.

Yes, this is bickering now and again but generally I find this healthy in forming an opinion on whether technology X is better that Y etc..

IMO no change is needed, apart from maybe a "bring back Kev Glass" animated banner or a petition!

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Offline princec

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 434
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-04-04 11:42:27 »

Some people jsut are to lazy to try the game.
...
read the TUER thread. there is like 10 pages of him talking to a wall. People still played the game though. And people commented at times.
It's not laziness, it's just that if we're absolutely honest, they're basically so bad, incomplete, or experimental, it's usually not even worth the time spent looking at them. Occasionally a good one comes along and you can tell it's good because people comment on it a lot. As for the TUER thread, well, that is gouessej talking to a wall, but he seems to like that.

Thing is this is a developers' forum in the end, and although there's lots of people who like to tinker with games programming and design not many people ever really make anything worth looking at because there's not much in the way of artists or sound engineering going on. To begin with all I did here was ask questions. Lots of them Smiley I only started posting about my games when they got good enough to post about, which kinda coincided with Chaz starting on the art.

Cas Smiley

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