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Offline bienator

Senior Member




OutOfCoffeeException


« Reply #30 - Posted 2009-03-13 01:06:01 »

1  
&& detectJava.isPlugin2()

i am not sure if this will work. deploymentToolkit.isPlugin2() returns only true when the deployment plugin is installed and the deployment plugin is AFAIK only available on windows.

for example dragable applets work perfectly on linux despite the missing deployment plugin which would mean 6uN compatible. (don't ask me whats the technical difference between the deployment plugin and plugin2 and why its not the same thing)

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #31 - Posted 2009-03-13 08:19:50 »

Yet another detection script:
http://www.brackeen.com/detectJava/
- Works on Safari+Win (at least on my machine Smiley
- Doesn't require external scripts

wow awesome work, looks like this is probably the best way to detect java.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #32 - Posted 2009-03-13 10:01:00 »

just some more results:
Quote
MSVN Installed:
 IE:
   Java: 1.1
   Complete string found: 1.1
   isPlugin2: false
   Detected from: MSVM
  FF: Not detected


1.1.8_010 Installed:
 - no change


1.2.2_017 Installed:
 IE: Not detected
 FF: (after copying npjava plugins over)
   Java: 1.2
   Complete string found: 1.2.2
   isPlugin2: false
   Detected from: MimeType


1.3.1_20 Installed:
  IE: Still finding MSVM
      Error:
   Not locating the Java 1.3 installation, despite that being the one actually used if an applet is loaded
        Tried copying in npjava plugins

       
  FF:
   Java: 1.3
   Complete string found: 1.3.1_20
   isPlugin2: false
   Detected from: MimeType


1.4.2_14 Installed:
  IE:
   Java: 1.4
   Complete string found: 1.4.2
   isPlugin2: false
   Detected from: ActiveX
   Error: NOT enabled however!

  FF:
   Java: 1.4
   Complete string found: 1.4.2_14
   isPlugin2: false
   Detected from: MimeType


I am not sure when the liveconnect part kicks in - because at one point it did after 3 reloads?

That said, this is a huge improvement!

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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 753
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #33 - Posted 2009-03-13 10:19:13 »

Opera 9.64:

Says: 1.6.0u7 while 1.6.0u12 is running (according to javaconsole).

Detection-type = MimeType

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Offline brackeen

Junior Member





« Reply #34 - Posted 2009-03-13 17:04:38 »

Cool, I updated the script that should fix a few of the problems here. I think it was reporting 1.1 in a few cases where the machine had a higher version.

1  
&& detectJava.isPlugin2()

i am not sure if this will work. deploymentToolkit.isPlugin2() returns only true when the deployment plugin is installed and the deployment plugin is AFAIK only available on windows.

for example dragable applets work perfectly on linux despite the missing deployment plugin which would mean 6uN compatible. (don't ask me whats the technical difference between the deployment plugin and plugin2 and why its not the same thing)
Ah, good to know. But, really I want to detect new plugin features like the animated splash, java_arguments, separate_jvm, etc. I'm assuming isPlugin2() is the best way to detect that?
Offline bienator

Senior Member




OutOfCoffeeException


« Reply #35 - Posted 2009-03-13 17:44:16 »

Cool, I updated the script that should fix a few of the problems here. I think it was reporting 1.1 in a few cases where the machine had a higher version.
Ah, good to know. But, really I want to detect new plugin features like the animated splash, java_arguments, separate_jvm, etc. I'm assuming isPlugin2() is the best way to detect that?
i don't know. But I don't think there are many windows user who explicitly disable the plugin2 and ubuntu should fix plugin2 installation in the next release. Thats why I simply assume that plugin2 is available when 6u10 or later was detected.

Offline trembovetski

Senior Member




If only I knew what I'm talking about!


« Reply #36 - Posted 2009-03-13 17:47:51 »

Quote
Thats why I simply assume that plugin2 is available when 6u10 or later was detected.

I believe plugin2 won't be used on FF pre-2, and IE pre-7. Do you have that logic as well?

BTW, I reported issues with the deployment toolkit java detection to the engineers (and pointed to this thread)..

Dmitri
Offline brackeen

Junior Member





« Reply #37 - Posted 2009-03-14 14:57:12 »

Here's the results for running the script for one day on pulpgames.net (which has two Java 1.4 games). 1266 unique events.
Since it's a game site the users w/o Java are lower than average.
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2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
7  
1.6uN   558   40.11%   
1.6   479   41.71%  
1.5   127   10.39%  
Unknown   56   4.60%
1.4   22   1.60%  
1.1   15   1.00%
1.3   9   0.60%

92% of the users in the sample have Java 1.5 or higher. Sweet! The only surprise to me is that 1.4 usage is as low as it is.

BTW, I reported issues with the deployment toolkit java detection to the engineers (and pointed to this thread)..
The only thing I did that might be useful is a way to detect the Java version on Safari+Win. (Calling java.lang.System.getProperty("java.version") doesn't work). Rather than explain it, here it is:

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getHighestInstalledViaLiveConnect: function() {
        // Call version-specific methods until something breaks.
       // Only known method that works on Safari/Windows
       var version = "0.0";
        document.write('<applet id="javaDetectApplet" code="java.applet.Applet" ' +
            'width="0" height="0" name="Java" ' +
            'style="visibilty: hidden; display: none" ' +
            'mayscript="true"></applet>');
        var a = document.getElementById('javaDetectApplet');
        if (a != null) {
            try {
                a.isEnabled();
                version = "1.1";
            }
            catch (e11) {
                return version;
            }
            try {
                a.getAccessibleContext();
                version = "1.3";
            }
            catch (e13) {
                return version;
            }
            try {
                a.isBackgroundSet();
                version = "1.4";
            }
            catch (e14) {
                return version;
            }
            try {
                a.isPreferredSizeSet();
                version = "1.5";
            }
            catch (e15) {
                return version;
            }
            try {
                a.getBaselineResizeBehavior();
                version = "1.6";
            }
            catch (e16) {
                return version;
            }
        }
        return version;
    },


Offline DzzD
« Reply #38 - Posted 2009-03-14 15:47:02 »

great, I will use your script on my own website soon, is that the final version ?

I wouldn't worry about Java1.4 as you said it is a game website, and I really beleave that Java stats on such websites are sligly different then the reality => more Java and more Java 1.6


related to the way you detect Java on Safari + Win, It maybe a good idea when Java is not detected by JavaScript to use this technic it wont be really annoying for visitors as there are few one that doesn't have Java and if there is no java it wont do anything.

So what about when Java is not detected to write an applet and query the version within it ?

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #39 - Posted 2009-03-14 15:58:05 »

So what about when Java is not detected to write an applet and query the version within it ?

yup did a similar thing here, basically wait 10 seconds for java to responded via live connect, if it doesn't assume it isn't available. Works on all browsers including safari and konqueror.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline brackeen

Junior Member





« Reply #40 - Posted 2009-03-14 16:11:06 »

great, I will use your script on my own website soon, is that the final version ?

I wouldn't worry about Java1.4 as you said it is a game website, and I really beleave that Java stats on such websites are sligly different then the reality => more Java and more Java 1.6


related to the way you detect Java on Safari + Win, It maybe a good idea when Java is not detected by JavaScript to use this technic it wont be really annoying for visitors as there are few one that doesn't have Java and if there is no java it wont do anything.

So what about when Java is not detected to write an applet and query the version within it ?

Yeah, that's the final version. Writing the applet out is a last-ditch effort if all other detection methods fail.

yup did a similar thing here, basically wait 10 seconds for java to responded via live connect, if it doesn't assume it isn't available. Works on all browsers including safari and konqueror.
Yeah, that's a more accurate solution instead of the LiveConnect way I was doing it. I was just trying to do it without any external classes.
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #41 - Posted 2009-03-15 14:42:48 »

Yes make the website slow for everyone who doesn't have java installed  Grin

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 753
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #42 - Posted 2009-03-15 14:52:42 »

Stats from Spanish site, with very non-technically-inclined visitors

Major versions
1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
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7  
hits    share    java_version
538   66%   1.6
158   19%   Unknown
73   9%   1.5
25   3%   1.1
11   1%   1.4
2   0%   1.7


Minor versions:
1  
2  
3  
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hits    share    java_version 
182   22%   1.6.0_11
160   19%   1.6.0
158   19%   Unknown
85   10%   1.6.0_10
53   6%   1.6
38   4%   1.6.0_12
28   3%   1.5.0
25   3%   1.1
18   2%   1.5.0_16
13   1%   1.5
7   0%   1.6.0_03
7   0%   1.5.0_13
7   0%   1.6.0_02
6   0%   1.4.2
5   0%   1.4
5   0%   1.5.0_09
5   0%   1.6.0_07
2   0%   1.7.0
1   0%   1.5.0_10
1   0%   1.5.0_01
1   0%   1.6.0_06

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Offline DzzD
« Reply #43 - Posted 2009-03-15 16:03:50 »

Quote
158   19%   Unknown
lot of users, any idea ? no java ??

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 753
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #44 - Posted 2009-03-15 16:25:25 »

It's Spain, so 19% no Java is not a surprise for me.

Typical for USA is 15% or so. IIRC

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Offline DzzD
« Reply #45 - Posted 2009-03-16 03:14:11 »

arround 20% without java appear to be lot for me ! we are very far of the "everybody have java"

good to know about france : since a cupple of years now, you can pay "gouvernment charge" using internet and you must have java on your desktop to do it (at least it was using an Applets past years ), and you can pay later if you do it using internet rather then sending letter, I think this has probably diffused a lot the Java plugin in france as all workers must pay those charges.

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 753
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #46 - Posted 2009-03-16 10:46:45 »

I think the javascript isn't perfect yet.

There's no mention of 1.2.x or 1.3.x, and 1.1.8 (SUN JVM, not MSVM) also doesn't appear in the stats.

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Offline DzzD
« Reply #47 - Posted 2009-03-16 11:22:54 »

Yes make the website slow for everyone who doesn't have java installed  Grin

I forget to say : no it wont because Applet wont start where there is no Java  Tongue, it will only make slow on computer with Java working but for wich the JS cannot find it. But the most important is that it will give combos that are not detected OS/browser/Java version and we then will be able to patch the JS script.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 343
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #48 - Posted 2009-03-16 12:23:21 »

What about mac visitors?

Cas Smiley

Offline brackeen

Junior Member





« Reply #49 - Posted 2009-03-16 14:42:11 »

I think the javascript isn't perfect yet.

There's no mention of 1.2.x or 1.3.x, and 1.1.8 (SUN JVM, not MSVM) also doesn't appear in the stats.
I picked up a few 1.3 VM hits.
1.2 never worked with the <applet> tag AFAIK.
And for a 1.1 Sun VM, was that the one in Netscape? That would probably show up via the LiveConnect method.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #50 - Posted 2009-03-16 16:41:01 »

I picked up a few 1.3 VM hits.
1.2 never worked with the <applet> tag AFAIK.
And for a 1.1 Sun VM, was that the one in Netscape? That would probably show up via the LiveConnect method.
I was able to get 1.2 working in netscape, not 1.1.8 tho

Offline DzzD
« Reply #51 - Posted 2009-10-25 23:41:32 »

this thread needs an update !

http://www.statowl.com/java.php


nothing really new....

1.6 56.5%
1.5 17.5%
1.4 6%
1.3 0%
other or undetected : 20 % (1.1 / 1.2, IMO, are not detected)

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #52 - Posted 2009-11-25 18:43:54 »

we were just discussing java plugin 2 uptake over at #LWJGL (freenode.net), seems like the situation is pretty good now

http://www.statowl.com/java.php

Java 1.6 uptake is at 62.10%
Java 1.5 is at 15.18%
and Java 1.4 + all jre versions below that are at 4.59%

Java 1.6 has seen a 2% rise month on month

Now that Java also has a semi decent update mechanism, it looks like its happy days for java applet programming.

heres a second source to confirm the above http://riastats.com
Offline DzzD
« Reply #53 - Posted 2009-11-25 18:52:46 »

nice to ear that

some precisions (in case of) :

java 1.6 is still around 54%  (62% if only for client that have Java detected) EDIT : sorry ... forget what I said I may need some rest..

Quote
and Java 1.4 + all jre versions below that are at 4.59%
this does not include version <=1.2 ( that can probably be find in several enterprise (except computer/graphics one) that usually keep computer for a while before changing them)

Quote
Now that Java also has a semi decent update mechanism, it looks like its happy days for java applet programming
I found it very nice, this times this a real improvment for Java good work Sun Wink

Offline DzzD
« Reply #54 - Posted 2009-11-25 19:02:32 »

somethign interresting is to compare (on RIASTAT) win XP (45% 1.6), win Vista (77% 1.6) & win 7 (34% 1.6)

Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #55 - Posted 2009-11-26 00:21:26 »

another really nice feature that'll be coming soon to firefox and no doubt other browsers will follow is plugin check

http://dailyapps.net/2009/11/tool-mozilla-plugin-check/

so double nagging for users, the browser and by the java updater

again this'll keep more users on the latest and greatest plugin Smiley
Offline zammbi

JGO Coder


Medals: 4



« Reply #56 - Posted 2009-11-26 00:56:58 »

Quote
another really nice feature that'll be coming soon to firefox and no doubt other browsers will follow is plugin check

Ah thats great.
I'll see if I can get my Java stats from google stats, once I find the details again...

Current project - Rename and Sort
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #57 - Posted 2009-11-26 14:55:05 »

this does not include version <=1.2 ( that can probably be find in several enterprise (except computer/graphics one) that usually keep computer for a while before changing them)

anything below 1.4 can safely be ignore as they probably total less then 1% and besides the plugin was super horrid on those anyway (well it was horrid until 1.6.0_10), better to consider those computers as not having java then to still try support them in some way.
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 75
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #58 - Posted 2010-05-03 12:35:28 »

Just had a look at the latest java stats (yes I was bored Smiley)

However there is some good news this month, from the latest April 2010 stats the Java Plugin2 is now for the first time the dominant applet plugin and from here on will continue to rise.

Plugin2 is now used by 52% of all Java Installs.

The Java plugin is still installed on about 80% of all computers.

All versions of java below 1.6 are now dying fast and have combined market share of below 15% of all installed java installs. Java 1.5 is 12.69% of that 15%, so aiming for any java version below 1.5 now is pretty insignificant and those versions can probably be ignored.

The rate at which java was loosing market share has also seemed to slow massively compared to what it was last year, only dropped by 0.07% last month. Java was loosing about 0.5% a month late last year. This is probably attributed to the improved java client side experience and the much nicer update process java now has. Judging from the current trend I'm predicting that java will probably now start stabilising at about 80% market share and may even start to rise a little by the end of 2010.
Offline DzzD
« Reply #59 - Posted 2010-05-03 13:22:14 »

first all the following is said really without any offense against you Kapta but...

hum.. hum... I am far to aggree

Java 1.6 => 57%...
Java => 80%

this still make 23% difference ... (even 10% diff would still be significant)

as far as I know it was already the case one year earlier ( nearly same stats last year), IMO : this means that half of computers are updating while another half do not, those stats seems to not change a lot with time

23% is NOT "insignificant ", your claim sounds a little demagocic to me


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