Java-Gaming.org Hi !
Featured games (83)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (539)
Games in Android Showcase (132)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (603)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
  Community Real Time Strategy Spec  (Read 17859 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Posted 2009-01-15 21:32:04 »

Java Community Project: Space Real Time Strategy Specification


Feel free to ask question, or correct any mistakes.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #1 - Posted 2009-01-15 23:50:59 »

Hi bobjob,

Obviously you're not going to share your grand ideas here when interest and dedication haven't been shown or proven, but what's the unique selling point?

Design/story are inter-dependent, under unique selling points... what will this RTS have over existing RTS's already out there or under production by a bigger studio?

One recent RTS I found better than the average collect minerals/build units is Supreme Commander.  It went for macro over micro full of destruction on a grand scale.  I've never tried to play multiplayer, but the campaigns became really easy once you hole up.  I'm sure vs a human player it won't be the case which offers skilled players so many options on how to beat the other player(s).

Of the RTS's I've played over the years.  Bold titles are the ones I would choose to study from.

Spellforce Series - Story driven, game play is okay, heroes are way over powered but once again not the all in one solution.  Could of used better scripting for in game cut scenes and voice acting.

Supreme Commander Series - LOTS! of units, options, variety of strategy.  Simple resource management, but hard to master the perfect balance between energy vs mass.

World at War - Nothing special about this RTS, I don't even remember the story and plot and the resources needed... it had issues with camera.

Warcraft 2 & 3 - cream of the crop in terms of replay value (yay bnet).  Blizzard never disappoints.  Hero units are great but not invincible, micro management over massing units.  Great level editor.

Starcraft Universe - once again, Blizzard delivers another great RTS, but this time micro or macro is possible depending on the map.  Same as WC3 almost but a different theme and game play style.

Age of Empire series - historical / mythical driven, too many resources imo, but well done and well made.

LOTR on the Xbox - I played it all the once, but the control were good for a console, and I was surprised.  I remain neutral on this once since I haven't finished it.

MOO3 - Terrible implementation of the MOO universe... too complex of planetary needs when the best points about MOO was building kick ass ships to take over the galaxy.

Pax Imperia (I forget the spelling) - MOO wannabe... terrible balance in terms of weapons.. all you needed was to tech to smart bombs.  Although I liked their simple planetary/ship design concept.

That's all comes to mind now, I know I've played other's that I liked but can't remember their names or developers.

Jack

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #2 - Posted 2009-01-16 00:02:11 »

gamlessx25

for cutscenes I was thinking maybe just use video files. We could always just take some in game models and subsurf them with some quick action and explosions, at least for the early stages of development (would be extremely easy for an air strike cut scene).

I was wondering if you had a prefrence when it came to modelling? Do you mind rigging skeletons?

Another Idea for the theme would be construct an RTS from the same universe as the space trade game. Mostly spaceship combat.
* simple enough pathing.
* easy to implement effects
* easy effective skybox backdrops
* static models, no need for rigging or many keyframes.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #3 - Posted 2009-01-16 00:09:11 »

dude I was looking at some of your models, there so cool. It also answered my question about the rigging.

Another question though, Do you know how to Tangent map models(Bake normal maps) from high poly to a dot3 texture map?
I am asking as I plan to do alot of work on the 3D side of things I want to make sure the game supports basic shaders.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #4 - Posted 2009-01-16 02:37:16 »

Hey bobjob,

Yeah, I can do normal/displacement maps no problem.  I practiced them a lot during school, but never produced a highly detailed to showcase since all the projects I modeled and rigged for had 1 programmer and that was impossible to implement in a 4 month period. 

I agree with space sci-fi theme, boxes are much easier to model/texture/animate verse characters.  Although Mudbox makes character modeling tons easier now.  I'm working on a demonized black sheep model for my Conquerclub avatar, will put that up as soon as it's done.

Jack

Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 212
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #5 - Posted 2009-01-16 08:21:59 »

Great start bobjob!

Making a really configurable RTS is definitely an interesting project. Is the intention to fix the theme initially and then migrate to something modable, or start with building a configurable system? My opinion is fixing the theme initially and working on getting something working while keeping the modding system in mind but not a priority is going to work better.

Other questions:

  • Will the 3D version support both lightweight software mode and opengl/directx hardware?
  • Multiplayer - I definitely think it's something that makes the project interesting, just because there are so many ways you could approach RTS networking
  • If you're going to use 2D and 3D, is that going to rule out using 3D terrains? Or is there something inbetween like some set of fix elevations?

Kev

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #6 - Posted 2009-01-16 09:34:32 »

Making a really configurable RTS is definitely an interesting project. Is the intention to fix the theme initially and then migrate to something modable, or start with building a configurable system? My opinion is fixing the theme initially and working on getting something working while keeping the modding system in mind but not a priority is going to work better.
There would be no priority on making the development tools stable, or open to the end user at the start, only to speed up development of the game, instead of spending to much time scripting.

As for the theme Im personally swaying alot to a space/scifi (If anyone has other ideas please tell me).
Another bonus in this would be (other than what was said before):
Basic RTS layouts seems to be a baseGird[][] and airGrid[][]. I was thinking if there isnt a base grid defined in the mapeditor, then it could turn into a "heavy weight unit" grid[][], smaller in size maybe baseGrid.length / 3; It means for the space scenes, there could be large carrier ship, or space stations in the lower part, and "leight weight" ship on the heigher grid. Also means faster pathing calculation for big ships instead of taking into account multiple small blocks when pathing. Simple and effective.


Other questions:
  • Will the 3D version support both lightweight software mode and opengl/directx hardware?

3D version will be openGL only, optimised also for slow computers (eg basic lighting, display lists, and single texture mapping).
2D version I highly recommend doing it using openGL, I think there are alot of good slick programmers would be nice if someone could use it to render the 2D version, If someone is confident that a 2D version could be done using software and still rendered fast enough through and applet or webstart, feel free to do so.

  • Multiplayer - I definitely think it's something that makes the project interesting, just because there are so many ways you could approach RTS networking
When the actual development(of the core game) begins. I will highly recommend starting it out as a multiplayer, Ill problably end up programming the networking stuff. I was thinking I may be focusing on 3D/Networking side of things as I already have completed version of code suitable for the project, ill probably end up porting some of that over.

  • If you're going to use 2D and 3D, is that going to rule out using 3D terrains? Or is there something inbetween like some set of fix elevations?
Yeah I was thinking about this. I really dont know a nice way to approach the 2D side of things.
In a space game elevations wont matter to much (but Id really like support a variety height) for impressive tile maps when there used.
A "space scene" 2D would work great, draw the lower scene, then higher scene, turn Depth testing on, and re render the base scene with GREATER, set alpha channels to maybe 0.25f or something like that for an effective visual.
Yet for a version with the tile map on. I could propose the visuals of startcraft 1, But thats a bit demanding for a "simple version". Another option would be to break up the tile map into its height vectors, then at runtime render the high points with lighter colours, and lower points with a darker colour.

But I honestly dont think I would be working on the 2D side of things, so it really comes down to the capabilities of the person who takes the banner for 2D. A simple problem to overcome would be the use of bridges, and again it would just be a  second call to render the base layer with GREATER depth testing on and alpha blending on.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #7 - Posted 2009-01-16 10:47:46 »

Added:
Quote
Developer Interactions
As the roles for this project are simply to allocate, personally, I dont see the need for any advanced communication setup. I personally think its best if emails of all team members were distrubuted amoung the team. I wouldnt mind doing the main administration work of following up on peoples dead lines/progress. Binary builds would be uploaded to a main demo web site, and basic information about the project will be accessible. I think anything more than a basic forum Thread, and "Release" website will only make for an unproductive environment. If anyone has a better idea, say so, this is something that would be best to finalise at the beginning.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #8 - Posted 2009-01-16 11:40:54 »

Some form of direct communication is needed be it video or just voice communication. Just a forum thread or just email will lead to miscommunication and people being frustrated.

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 55



« Reply #9 - Posted 2009-01-16 12:25:30 »

As for multiplayer, it would be great to play a fraction/base as team.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2009-01-16 17:05:21 »

To start, I made an mistake about Pax Imperia, it was an RTS I actually liked!!

The one with the over powered smart bomb was called Ascension.

Pax Imperia 2 is something we should all check out to get an idea of a good space rts.  It's Low poly 3D units moving in a 2.5D space environment.  Plants are always at the bottom right while ship to ship combat revolves around fleet formations and ship design. 

Point defenses are key since missiles and fighter/bombers are available on CVN classed vessels.  But to counter, you load up a BB class ship with long/mid range particle weapons to take slow moving targets out from far away.  I loved this game!  gonna try to find it and play it for the next bit on my one free night on Mondays.

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-01-16 20:32:41 »

Pax Imperia 2 is something we should all check out to get an idea of a good space rts.  It's Low poly 3D units moving in a 2.5D space environment.  Plants are always at the bottom right while ship to ship combat revolves around fleet formations and ship design. 
Ill check out some shots in youtube. Gameless I was thinking a might just throw together a quick mock version, to give a basic idea of the game machanics. How long till you could get a few models ready? maybe even some quick UV mapped arrow heads, for basic fighter crafts.

Some form of direct communication is needed be it video or just voice communication. Just a forum thread or just email will lead to miscommunication and people being frustrated.
So far the participants are few, so there is no need to make the communication more complex.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-01-16 20:50:36 »

I'll take my sketch book along when I do laundry tomorrow.  Simple models with normal maps shouldn't take too long.

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-01-17 12:17:35 »

So far the participants are few, so there is no need to make the communication more complex.
The international high distributed project that I was in for the last year has clearly showed that 'just' using mailing lists, email and some issue tracking system made things pretty dawn helpless. Even using IM here and there did help did'ly squat. Only thing that 'kinda' worked was Skype meetings. And that was for what I considered pretty trivial things.

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-01-18 20:47:20 »

Since I'm only helping on the art side, I just need a deadline date on art assets.  Communication is more vital between the programmers.

As for the game's theme and style, Star Trek Armada came to mind as a great space RTS in the classic RTS format.  Lets see if I can find that and play it for insights on what's good and bad.  Been so long since I played it.

Will be at the computer when MSN is marked busy, chat then bobjob.

Jack

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-01-18 22:18:38 »

Will be at the computer when MSN is marked busy, chat then bobjob.
good to know. Same as me.

A friend started working on some basic ships. will be nice once we got a few basics models to show off.
Im not sure about if they will be the models used in the end (probably will be), becaue in order to keep in it sync with the other game, may have to wait for the decisions.

Just a few things to note for models(at least for the mock version until more programmers come on board):
* Triangulate mesh (convert polygons to triangles)
* export keyframes to Wavefront ".obj"


My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-01-19 23:06:07 »

I am interested in helping with this.  I am a Java programmer for my job.  I haven't completed any games except 4k ones.  I hope I can stick with this one to the end.  My time will vary, but I will put as much as I can.  I have already been added to the Google code site.  Are you going to take advantage of it?

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-01-20 04:50:05 »

I am interested in helping with this.  I am a Java programmer for my job.  I haven't completed any games except 4k ones.  I hope I can stick with this one to the end.  My time will vary, but I will put as much as I can.  I have already been added to the Google code site.  Are you going to take advantage of it?

I just sent Kev a PM in order to regester to the site.
Glad to here more interest in the project.
I wouldnt mind checking out some of your 4k games, do you have a site?

Once I work out how the site works  persecutioncomplex, Ill upload a basic version for starters.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-01-20 13:01:43 »

I just sent Kev a PM in order to regester to the site.
Glad to here more interest in the project.
I wouldnt mind checking out some of your 4k games, do you have a site?

Once I work out how the site works  persecutioncomplex, Ill upload a basic version for starters.

No I don't have one.  You can check them all out at the Java 4K site.

This is my most recent one. http://marber8.freehostia.com/planet.jnlp.  I think it is a personal best for me.

Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-01-20 16:02:31 »


...

Just a few things to note for models(at least for the mock version until more programmers come on board):
* Triangulate mesh (convert polygons to triangles)
* export keyframes to Wavefront ".obj"



Not a problem, just have to switch from Edit Poly to Edit Mesh before exporting.

Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-01-20 23:29:58 »

I just sent Kev a PM in order to regester to the site.
Glad to here more interest in the project.
I wouldnt mind checking out some of your 4k games, do you have a site?

Once I work out how the site works  persecutioncomplex, Ill upload a basic version for starters.


Here's all my 4K games: http://www.java4k.com/index.php?action=games&method=byuser&uid=15

I should also mention that I have a basic level knowledge with LWJGL, jME and Slick.  I have done most of the tutorials for each.  I have also used Blender a little bit and programmed some simple Python scripts in it.  I have done a little bit of JNI work too.

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-01-21 10:29:15 »

I tried the space planet game, really cool. really fun.

I should also mention that I have a basic level knowledge with LWJGL, jME and Slick.  I have done most of the tutorials for each.  I have also used Blender a little bit and programmed some simple Python scripts in it.  I have done a little bit of JNI work too.
good to know. Ill try upload a version soon, so you can choose an area you feel most confident programming in.
 

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-01-21 12:17:36 »

good to know. Ill try upload a version soon, so you can choose an area you feel most confident programming in.

Does that mean we already rushed off to code something, whist not having a direction, a initial first target, etc.. down? Or is this a prototype?

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline gamelessx25

Senior Newbie





« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-01-21 13:04:31 »

bobjob's got a RTS engine already set up, he showed me some screen shots of it over the past weekend which he can port into an space RTS fairly easily.  What we need is now a design doc of what we want to achieve as an RTS.  I been doing some sketching on various ship models.  Nothing too detail yet, just putting down basic geometry to see what'll make an interesting design with low polygons.

If we can somehow tie this into the universe of the space trader game, that would enlist quite a few good writers that are more interested in developing that game atm.

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-01-21 20:41:25 »

Does that mean we already rushed off to code something, whist not having a direction, a initial first target, etc.. down? Or is this a prototype?
Until there is more than 2 programers for a project, I dont see the point in starting from scratch. Im more than happy to, but i would very much like to see progress.

I plan to set up the main code to be more of a utility library. This way people can chop and change parts they want to, but there will always be a working version of a game to test. I think it will be alot more rewarding for everyone involved, unless of corse more programers are interested in joining. I am currently carring most of the responsibilty for this project, and IMO I feel i am approaching it the right way, with the resources I have.

A side note:
I have a friend who works alot with blender, and uses the blender forums. In his opinion he believes there are alot of people willing to help out with projects, even with at least a single model. As there hasnt been much interest in the programming side of the RTS im hoping that wont be the case in other aspects.

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-01-21 22:46:18 »

I copied the project description over to the WiKi page.  Any changes/updates can be done over there.

http://code.google.com/p/mark-562/wiki/rts

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-01-22 14:02:49 »

I copied the project description over to the WiKi page.  Any changes/updates can be done over there.

http://code.google.com/p/mark-562/wiki/rts
cool thanx for that. Ill go over it again, and see if anything needs correcting


Here is a low poly model a friend made, rendered in realtime.
Manta craft v1.

still needs a better texture map. would be so cool to get some pixel artists.

Manta craft v2.


My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 212
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-01-22 14:43:36 »

Quote
Until there is more than 2 programers for a project, I dont see the point in starting from scratch. Im more than happy to, but i would very much like to see progress.

Unfortunately that might cause there to be less programmers interested, adopting large amounts of code doesn't come easily to a lot of folks.

Love the model, art already, awesome Smiley Are you planning to have the space trader universe and this one interact - or have the same theme or something, because that would be very cool.

Kev

Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-01-22 14:59:45 »

Unfortunately that might cause there to be less programmers interested, adopting large amounts of code doesn't come easily to a lot of folks.
ok fair enough, First up ill upload a mock version. hopefully it will stimulate more interest. Then once again ill propose a basic first target.
but if nothing eventuates and still there isnt many programers, ill re-evulate the situation.

Love the model, art already, awesome Smiley Are you planning to have the space trader universe and this one interact - or have the same theme or something, because that would be very cool.
It would be cool if they were in the same unverse, and same series titles.
Im still waiting on the writers for the space trade to do something. Once they do, if there are any key characters mentioned in the history of the unvirse or something of the like, ill adopt there plot into the RTS.



My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Offline bobjob

JGO Knight


Medals: 10
Projects: 4


David Aaron Muhar


« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-01-22 15:01:58 »

CaptainJester how do you feel about things on the programming side?
Would you rather tweek/add/take away from an already stablished game?
Or would you want us to start from scratch, building say a map editor?

My Projects
Games, Webcam chat, Video screencast, PDF tools.

Javagaming.org with chat room
Pages: [1] 2
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

rwatson462 (30 views)
2014-12-15 09:26:44

Mr.CodeIt (23 views)
2014-12-14 19:50:38

BurntPizza (50 views)
2014-12-09 22:41:13

BurntPizza (84 views)
2014-12-08 04:46:31

JscottyBieshaar (45 views)
2014-12-05 12:39:02

SHC (59 views)
2014-12-03 16:27:13

CopyableCougar4 (57 views)
2014-11-29 21:32:03

toopeicgaming1999 (123 views)
2014-11-26 15:22:04

toopeicgaming1999 (113 views)
2014-11-26 15:20:36

toopeicgaming1999 (32 views)
2014-11-26 15:20:08
Resources for WIP games
by kpars
2014-12-18 10:26:14

Understanding relations between setOrigin, setScale and setPosition in libGdx
by mbabuskov
2014-10-09 22:35:00

Definite guide to supporting multiple device resolutions on Android (2014)
by mbabuskov
2014-10-02 22:36:02

List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!