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Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #90 - Posted 2009-01-13 18:42:17 »

If you're thinking of it that way, once again check out Escape Velocity.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #91 - Posted 2009-01-14 12:45:51 »

i played ikariam (http://www.ikariam.org/) for a while last year, and perhaps this project could produce something like that*, except with an interface so people can write bots - the work could be separated into:

- central game server, with rpc/rest/whatever (networked) api
- web or java2d-based interface to that server, for human players
- bots using the api - anyone can write their own bot/ai

i realise i am somewhat late to the party, just chucking an idea out there. Smiley

*ikariam is a real time strategy game, but actions take hours instead of minutes

desperately seeking sanity
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 51
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #92 - Posted 2009-04-03 15:38:08 »

Where is this project at? I might be interested in this, and, of course, already have plenty of ideas, gameplay ideas, and artwork of my own.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline MickeyB

Senior Member




my game will work, my game will work!


« Reply #93 - Posted 2009-04-06 19:44:21 »

Same question, how are things going?

MickeyB

Current Project: http://www22.brinkster.com/mbowles/
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #94 - Posted 2009-04-06 22:12:00 »

All community projects are dead in the water.

As I said earlier, for something like this to work, you've got to start witn a solid base, or it will never work out.

Everybody wants something else, and in the end everybody gets nothing done.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #95 - Posted 2009-04-08 05:45:41 »

All community projects are dead in the water.

As I said earlier, for something like this to work, you've got to start witn a solid base, or it will never work out.

Everybody wants something else, and in the end everybody gets nothing done.

Well Kev was going to lead it all and organize everything but then he just... didn't. Suddenly I was supposed to be the one organizing the Sandbox project and there was no way I had time for that, nor did I ever nominate myself for the position. Tongue

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #96 - Posted 2009-04-08 09:32:06 »

Well Kev was going to lead it all and organize everything but then he just... didn't. Suddenly I was supposed to be the one organizing the Sandbox project and there was no way I had time for that, nor did I ever nominate myself for the position. Tongue

I don't think anyone really volunteered to lead any of the projects, just some people had it slightly thrust upon them. I considered volunteering to do it for Sandbox game but frankly I'm lousy at the non-technical stuff like task management.

I wonder if the community projects were too broad in their scope - in an attempt to be open and attract as many people as possible they became huge and generic. As a result everyone was interested but no one was really enthusiastic and committed. I'm becoming of the opinion that to do a successful community project you need to start with one or two dedicated people with a vision of their own, and only once there's a certain amount of base work completed and something to show can you open it up slowly and allow more people on board.

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline dishmoth
« Reply #97 - Posted 2009-04-08 12:40:47 »

The community project needed someone with the authority (and willingness, and leadership skills) to say "no" to suggestions.  As it was every suggestion became a "yeah, we'll do that too" feature, and in the end I don't think anyone had a clear vision of what the end goal was.

With hindsight, the project splitting into three was the first sign of trouble.

I'm becoming of the opinion that to do a successful community project you need to start with one or two dedicated people with a vision of their own, and only once there's a certain amount of base work completed and something to show can you open it up slowly and allow more people on board.

Agreed.  The initial discussion to see what sort of projects people want to be part of was (and probably still is) valuable.  But it's difficult to see anything actually taking shape unless one or two people "own" the project and put in the initial work.
Simon

Offline Gudradain
« Reply #98 - Posted 2009-04-08 17:30:05 »

I considered volunteering to do it for Sandbox game but frankly I'm lousy at the non-technical stuff like task management.

Anyone around here is specialized in project/task management? How they do it in big company?
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #99 - Posted 2009-04-08 18:02:21 »

Anyone around here is specialized in project/task management? How they do it in big company?

There's no special way of doing it as far as I can understand. It really comes down to incentive. If you're actually working for a job, then that job is your first or second priority (depending on if you're a family man Tongue) out of absolutely everything in your life. If you're doing a project like this, then it'll typically be like 5th, 6th, 7th, or 20th or more on peoples' priority lists. Playing World of Warcraft is often higher, I'm sure.

The incentive level can change depending on certain factors. Like if there's already a foundation for the game that makes it really fun, then the incentive goes up because people think they can join on a cool project and get some of the glory. If there's money or notoriety involved then it goes up, obviously. If you have someone constantly nagging you  and pushing you to do something specific, it goes up.

We started with more or less the bare minimum level of incentive. Everyone talked about a game they wanted to play, but not spend the time to make. Classic problem.

See my work:
OTC Software
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Member





« Reply #100 - Posted 2009-04-08 22:31:47 »

When I was at the last GDC, there were some good points in Satoru Iwata's keynote about how they develop game ideas at Nintendo:

1. First Miyamoto gets an idea for a game by observing things that people find fun, and analyzes them to find out what is fun about them. Quite many of his ideas come from his hobbies (gardening produced Pikmin, getting a pet produced Nintendogs and even Wii Fit came from his hobbies), so Iwata said that he has made Miyamoto sign an NDA for not talking about his hobbies outside work Grin.

2. Then when there is an idea, a small team of maybe just one developer will work for months or years on building a prototype game which concentrates on what makes the game fun. At the same time, multiple prototypes are in development on their own pace (Iwata will never ask how a prototype is progressing, for fear of giving pressure to finish it more quickly). Only after the prototype is fun, the production of a publishable game begins together with a big development team. Then they know that the core concept has been proved to be fun, so they always have something to which to return if the actual game is not anymore fun.

3. During development, hallway usability testing is used much. Miyamoto kidnaps a random Nintendo employee (non-developer) and forces him to play one of the games, while Miyamoto silently sits by and watches what the player does - what is fun and what is frustrating.

I think that by following these ideas, especially the point about first creating a fun prototype, would help a community project like this to succeed.

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #101 - Posted 2009-04-09 06:14:47 »

Yeah, those are great pointers, trouble is that's not very easy at all to do unless you're in a big company that can absorb the cost of messing around with something until it's fun, with no deadline and no constraints. Similarly for a community project you need people willing to devote an unspecified amount of time to get to this point of being fun.

That can be difficult!

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #102 - Posted 2009-04-09 09:10:47 »

Yeah, those are great pointers, trouble is that's not very easy at all to do unless you're in a big company that can absorb the cost of messing around with something until it's fun, with no deadline and no constraints. Similarly for a community project you need people willing to devote an unspecified amount of time to get to this point of being fun.

The way I see it, if you wanted to do the same thing as a hobby/community project then you'd have to do that whole process on your own (or possibly with one other person). Only when you get to the last point ("Mass production stage") have you got the concept and the fun nailed can you ramp up to being a full community project with loads of people.

The 4k competition actually serves as a good game prototyping method, since there's much less focus on graphics and polish and the winners are usually the ones with great gameplay. Similarly, Rescue Squad 2 was originally a one-week competition game that was unexpectedly fun so I've been turning it into a full game (worryingly it's taken an extra two years and it's still not finished...)

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Member





« Reply #103 - Posted 2009-04-09 12:29:50 »

We could do so, that everybody will work on their own little game prototype at their own pace, and then if one of them produces something fun and the community agrees that it is fun, then a community project will be started.

Offline dishmoth
« Reply #104 - Posted 2009-04-09 12:51:51 »

We could do so, that everybody will work on their own little game prototype at their own pace, and then if one of them produces something fun and the community agrees that it is fun, then a community project will be started.

Or pick an existing 4k game as the prototype? (with the author's permission, of course)

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #105 - Posted 2009-04-09 19:35:28 »

We could do so, that everybody will work on their own little game prototype at their own pace, and then if one of them produces something fun and the community agrees that it is fun, then a community project will be started.
That's a good idea. I might have fun messing around with some sort of sandbox game to make something fun as a prototype, then everyone else could add a lot of content to it.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #106 - Posted 2009-04-09 19:54:58 »

Funny that my initial suggestion of working towards a techdemo, as the only option to get something started, is now where we're going Smiley

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #107 - Posted 2009-04-09 19:58:58 »

Funny that my initial suggestion of working towards a techdemo, as the only option to get something started, is now where we're going Smiley
Yeah yeah.
 Tongue


See my work:
OTC Software
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #108 - Posted 2009-04-09 20:03:04 »

Couldn't help myself persecutioncomplex

Anyway, when I finally have some free time (maybe this year..?) I'll try to contribute something here and there.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Gudradain
« Reply #109 - Posted 2009-04-10 00:46:40 »

The prototype phase is definitively something we need to do before we start the mass production, but there is still a problem.

How do you make the transition between the prototype and the mass production phase?
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Member





« Reply #110 - Posted 2009-04-10 10:00:46 »

How do you make the transition between the prototype and the mass production phase?

You let others play your prototype, and if they find it fun, they may be willing to join the project. The code from the prototype is not necessarily reused, probably there will be a clean start (unless it's more like a maintainable tracer bullet than a throwaway prototype). The project will have the prototype's core concept as their focus in gameplay.

Offline Gudradain
« Reply #111 - Posted 2009-04-10 21:54:54 »

You let others play your prototype, and if they find it fun, they may be willing to join the project. The code from the prototype is not necessarily reused, probably there will be a clean start (unless it's more like a maintainable tracer bullet than a throwaway prototype). The project will have the prototype's core concept as their focus in gameplay.

Ok but here is a situation.

We are a couple of months later. Demonpants has worked on his sandbox prototype and now it's very cool. He show it to us and everyone find it fun and decided to make a bigger game based on it.

What now? The bigger game won't just build itself and it's not just about having better graphics.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 798
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #112 - Posted 2009-04-11 11:38:59 »

Create a SVN rep.

Projects in their early stages are always a big mess, that happens to not crash on the dev's machine.

Things will work out, even if it requires to rewrite the whole base.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
Learn how to award medals... and work your way up the social rankings
Offline Gudradain
« Reply #113 - Posted 2009-04-11 19:08:58 »

I always like to have at least a minimal design phase... Don't think it could work if you don't have a plan of what to do.

The problem with a game is that you can't plan everything at the beginning because the goal is to make something fun and what is fun is very subjective. That's why making a prototype first is so important, because it's the only way to find out what is fun.

But after that, you need to have a plan. You can't simply gather everyone around the prototype and tell them ''GO, do some code''. The only way I can see something like that working is if 1 or 2 people do a big chunk of code alone, then other people willing to read through that big chunk of code might understand the direction that the project is trying to take from that code. (That code would probably be different code from the prototype). So it's like someone working alone again.
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Member





« Reply #114 - Posted 2009-04-12 21:43:53 »

What now? The bigger game won't just build itself and it's not just about having better graphics.

After that it's like managing any other software project where the team is distributed, which makes communication much harder than if they would meet every day. Maybe http://producingoss.com/ or some other place has ideas on how to make that happen.

Offline Gudradain
« Reply #115 - Posted 2009-04-13 03:05:57 »

After that it's like managing any other software project where the team is distributed, which makes communication much harder than if they would meet every day. Maybe http://producingoss.com/ or some other place has ideas on how to make that happen.

Thx for the link. I begin to read it and it seems full of good tip  Smiley
Offline makz

Junior Newbie





« Reply #116 - Posted 2010-03-12 12:29:52 »

anything new related to this?
Offline Momoko_Fan

Junior Member


Medals: 2



« Reply #117 - Posted 2010-03-12 15:37:39 »

Wow didn't even know this existed..  Shocked
Kev posted request, people threw in a 4 page worth of suggestions, and then it just stopped as if it never existed, until this day.

As a suggestion to other readers, if you want to make an impressive 3D game, you have jMonkeyEngine 3: HDR, Real-time shadows, advanced bump mapping, per-pixel lighting and more. I want to know a C++ programmer who wouldn't be impressed when Java does that.

EDIT: Lol nevermind, I just noticed the other threads in this forum XD
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