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  A Free movie thats becoming an online sensation  (Read 5252 times)
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Offline Corvinex

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« Posted 2008-12-28 07:04:11 »

Zeitgeist: Addendum

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

You have to watch this awesome documentary. Its really hard to explain, but its basically about the U.S. money system (Monetary System). But it affects the whole world, so everyone needs to watch this. Smiley

Watch the 2008 one, and then the 2007 one if you want.

Please watch and post what you think here. I joined the movement.

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Offline zammbi

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« Reply #1 - Posted 2008-12-28 08:19:30 »

Oh theres a 2008? Cool, I'll watch that tomorrow.
I have watched the 2007 and thought that was really good documentary.

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Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2008-12-28 09:35:02 »

Yeah its even better, they propose a solution. Called The Venus Project, which changes everything for the better.

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #3 - Posted 2008-12-28 20:11:38 »

Yeah its even better, they propose a solution. Called The Venus Project, which changes everything for the better.
In France, there are other videos about this, "L'Argent Dette" (money debt) of Paul Grignon. There are some contradictions in Zeitgeist: Addendum 2008, it criticizes communism but suggests similar solutions like a resource-based economy, a common good for all human beings, no state, no normative deformation, the religion as an obstacle of emancipation, no master, no slave, no guru, no teacher, no pupil, the revolution (pronounced several times). Thinking the technology is the solution is wrong because it depends on how it is used, it is a political problem, it depends on political choices.

Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #4 - Posted 2008-12-29 00:17:13 »

Yes if it politics are still around. The Venus Project proposes having no government either. All choices will be made by computers, based on the resources available. There is no money, so there is no one able to benefit from misinformation because everyone will have everything they need or want.

Please post your thoughts if you've seen the movie Smiley

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Offline tom
« Reply #5 - Posted 2008-12-29 01:40:48 »

A propaganda movie about creating a star trek society.

Btw, here is a link to Paul Grignon's Money As Dept:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+as+dept#

Offline Martin Strand

Junior Member





« Reply #6 - Posted 2008-12-29 02:15:31 »

I didn't know there was a 2008 version, gonna check that out.
If you find this "mumbo jumbo" stuff interesting, also check out some of the talks by David Icke

Money as Debt was really interesting, highly recommended for anybody who's wondering where money comes from or how this sudden "credit crunch" could appear from out of the blue.


I've always felt that goverment brings out all the bad characteristics of humans. The very design of our society encourages fear, submission, isolation and excessive consumption rather than compassion, creativity, unity and spirituality. Here's a lovely quote:

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside-down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroy spirituallity ."
-- Michael Ellner
Offline SwampChicken
« Reply #7 - Posted 2008-12-29 02:16:08 »

I dont like how they side-step the problem of making a transition from monetary to resource based economy? I'm thinking it would need to be subtle & take at least a generation if not more...

Also, if we're all in the venus project, and we all drive Ferrrai F430's because we all want one...(though I don't see how), what happens if someone is beating me over the head and there is no police?

A credit to it for being thought provoking but personally the show left me with more questions than when I started watching...
Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #8 - Posted 2008-12-29 04:45:50 »

It will become clearer how to transition from our current system to the resource based system, once we get enough people to watch the movie. And experts will start planning the next steps.

First things you can do now are promote the movie anyway you can, and start investing in green technology. Like getting solar panels for your house, just in case the current system crashes, and money is worthless.

Lol one way I read on their forums to promote, was write ZeitgeistMovie.com on money. Using money to fight the problem.

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Offline bobjob

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« Reply #9 - Posted 2008-12-29 05:21:44 »

so if there is a resource system, would that mean no more copywrite laws as they are not really resource.


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Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #10 - Posted 2008-12-29 10:48:07 »

Yes that is correct, all knowledge will be free for anyone to use. I think there will still be creator credit given, but everything will be open to be used by everyone.

Imagine all our countries' space programs combined, all knowledge is known by each of them. Can you imagine where we would be already if it was like that. Instead of having it be a competition of who could reach what faster.

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #11 - Posted 2008-12-29 19:20:28 »

It is a political problem and a system that would deny the political nature of the choices for another society is potentially at least as dangerous as the system it would replace because it could lead to another technocracy. During the second world wide war, national-socialists tried to use the science to prove that they weren't wrong. Currently, about several subjects, in European Union, laws are adopted without any democratic control because some people say that it is not OUR problem, we are not experts but everyone is concerned by these laws therefore everyone should have the right to decide. Try to understand that an expert is a human being, nothing more; if you give to a few human beings the power to decide for us, it would lead to another "corpocracy", a kind of new oligarchy, it is worse than democracy on my view.

The first part of the video is quite fine but I give you the advice to read more about scientism because it is exactly the theory defended in this video. A system based on scientism only replaces the current masters by other masters, call them experts.

Do you know nanosolar? Its technology seems very promising.

Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #12 - Posted 2008-12-29 21:09:29 »

Lol, the new system is so far from a political nature that there will be no interference from man to decide much of anything. The rundown is, everyone sees that money is bad. So we change to a society that balances all resources so everyone has access to them, instead of the rich only. It really doesn't have much to do with science, the more important thing is technology. Right now we can all have electric cars not polluting our ecosystem, but due to lack of money and oil companies driving up battery prices. Means only a handful have them.

An expert in our current system is a way to lock up our human potential. If somebody knows a little about everything he will likely not vote, not get a job, not make purchases. Because he knows that the whole system is messed up. And our current society shoves it in your face that you must go to college, get a degree, and work in one field.

Who here would like to go back to college and study and learn about all kinds of other stuff at their own free will? Well we can't thanks to debts we got to pay off, and the cost of time to even finish one degree. We must go back to work in a meaningless job.

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Offline SwampChicken
« Reply #13 - Posted 2008-12-30 02:33:06 »

Interesting views... but in reality, it can never work for a single reason.

Human greed.

The majority of people don't care to "share". Eliminate that trait (genetically?) and a resource economy has a chance to survive.

Also, the red flashing light always goes off in my head when I hear the word "expert". Experience has shown that most of the times these people are anything but... and are usually really bad at seeing the bigger picture. Our last, self procliamed 3D expert at an old company asked us lowly developers after 6 months of employment "Which way do the axis go again?" (he was referring to the X/Y/Z axis)
Offline bobjob

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« Reply #14 - Posted 2008-12-30 05:57:04 »

Interesting views... but in reality, it can never work for a single reason.

Human greed.

A good system can work, But the problem is a Leader. I get that on these forum people seem to be free thinkers but in truth the majority of people are sheep, and need a leader.

So the best system by far is a dictatorship under 1 good leader, but its also the worst system under 1 bad leader. So anyway vote 1 bobjob for world ruler next global election.[


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Offline gouessej
« Reply #15 - Posted 2008-12-30 12:33:02 »

Human greed.
The human greed doesn't determine everything. The human beings can change. In France, before 1789, lots of rich people thought that the peasants were unable to revolt, that it was their human greed to be in a state of "slavery". It is not so simple.

Lol, the new system is so far from a political nature that there will be no interference from man to decide much of anything.
You cannot create a world without politics.

The rundown is, everyone sees that money is bad.
I think that money is bad but some people disagree with us.

So we change to a society that balances all resources so everyone has access to them, instead of the rich only.
Admit that it looks like communism  Grin If everyone has access to all resources, then there are no more rich people, then all social classes disappear : a system without state and without social class is a communist system.

It really doesn't have much to do with science, the more important thing is technology. Right now we can all have electric cars not polluting our ecosystem, but due to lack of money and oil companies driving up battery prices. Means only a handful have them.
Technology or science, the problem is the same, you cannot try to convince people that experts can decide instead of people, it is not democratic.

An expert in our current system is a way to lock up our human potential. If somebody knows a little about everything he will likely not vote, not get a job, not make purchases.
The risk in any system is that there is a confusion between political choices and technical choices. Voting is not an absurd useless thing. In lots of countries, political parties are only the devices used by corporations but there are already some of them that denounce the "corpocracy" and suggest other viable political solutions than the Venus Project on my view.

Because he knows that the whole system is messed up. And our current society shoves it in your face that you must go to college, get a degree, and work in one field.
Who here would like to go back to college and study and learn about all kinds of other stuff at their own free will? Well we can't thanks to debts we got to pay off, and the cost of time to even finish one degree. We must go back to work in a meaningless job.
I agree with you about this aspect, I'm very sad because I have a boring job, I would like to program video games instead of doing this sh.. but building an oligarchy that would give lots of power to some experts and that would rely on machines programmed my human beings (with political ideas) would not solve the problem. Currently, a machine cannot have political ideas but can be programmed to make decisions on political criteria, it might lead to the best and to the worst too, denying the political nature of these decisions exposes the whole world to the threat of machines applying political criteria that are not "good" for everyone.

So the best system by far is a dictatorship under 1 good leader, but its also the worst system under 1 bad leader. So anyway vote 1 bobjob for world ruler next global election.[
The world cannot rely on only a single man. Louise Michel wrote that the power gives vertigo. The power has to be shared to avoid this.

A good system can work, But the problem is a Leader. I get that on these forum people seem to be free thinkers but in truth the majority of people are sheep, and need a leader.
"Le savoir rend libre" = "The knowledge drives free". I'm not a sheep, I fought against racists when I was very young, nobody really asked me to do this, I did it because I was sure that what I was doing was fair. I'm an political activist and I go on fighting because I go on thinking my fight is fair.

Offline Alric

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2008-12-30 13:21:53 »

Come on people, have we learned nothing?
We should know full well by now what happens any time someone proposes a mysteriously named "project" that will bring a new world order. Sooner or later, either James Bond or Doctor Who will have to get involved to expose their megalomania, and it'll all end in tears. Mark my words.

Offline bobjob

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« Reply #17 - Posted 2008-12-30 20:39:17 »

Come on people, have we learned nothing?
We should know full well by now what happens any time someone proposes a mysteriously named "project" that will bring a new world order. Sooner or later, either James Bond or Doctor Who will have to get involved to expose their megalomania, and it'll all end in tears. Mark my words.
FOILED!  Angry

The world cannot rely on only a single man. Louise Michel wrote that the power gives vertigo. The power has to be shared to avoid this.
if you got a religious person as a leader, they wont get an alpha male complex, due to fear of someone higher than them in the power hierarchy

sooooooo In conclusion, and everyone agrees (even gouessej), we need a religious fanatic dictactor to fix the world.

peace out! Cool

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Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #18 - Posted 2008-12-30 21:30:24 »

To be proven wrong is release from ignorance. If someone has a better route to take our society then all the better. But we cannot keep going on with this one. The US is already preparing for the collapse of the current monetary system. Have you all heard of the Amero?

The Amero is the new money that will be apart of the newly combined Canada, US, and Mexico. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1954933468700958565&hl=es

I hope you don't take this video as a complete lie. But the internet is the most free form of expression. Although some people will use it to start bullshit. But we must all do our research and connect the dots. Watch and start preparing for something, even Obama says that this will all get worse before it gets better. How can you be sure this wont happen. Just prepare.

Good luck to us all.

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Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2008-12-30 21:56:57 »

Gouessej, and everyone thats interested, here is an interview with Peter Joseph. The guy who made Zeitgeist.

Gouessej if you listen to the third one, it will clear up some stuff on labeling what this system is.
But really listen to it all.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=3&func=view&catid=7&id=18066

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Offline Jackal von ÖRF

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« Reply #20 - Posted 2008-12-30 22:23:02 »

The rundown is, everyone sees that money is bad.

There is this one book which says "the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things" (1 Ti 6:10). It points the problem to be in the hearts of men, not in money itself - it even says that "money is for a protection" (Ec 7:12). The world would be a much better place if people were following even the tenth command, which goes to the root of this problem: "You must not desire your fellowman’s house. You must not desire your fellowman’s wife, nor his slave man nor his slave girl nor his bull nor his ass nor anything that belongs to your fellowman." (Ex 20:17)

Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #21 - Posted 2008-12-30 22:30:53 »

Right, it is not man's fault that they get greedy. But our society is all about shopping. All commercials on tv are about making you feel like what you have sucks. So you go out and shop for the latest and greatest, so you don't get laughed at by society. Then you have to go back to work and make more money, to spend on stuff that is completely unnecessary.

Money is the root of all evil. Not because its man's fault, its because it was designed that way. If we don't spend our money, then the economy collapses. So the system thrives on people's greed.

Please watch this flash video and you will see what I mean: http://www.storyofstuff.com/

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #22 - Posted 2008-12-30 23:49:22 »

Gouessej, and everyone thats interested, here is an interview with Peter Joseph. The guy who made Zeitgeist.

Gouessej if you listen to the third one, it will clear up some stuff on labeling what this system is.
But really listen to it all.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=3&func=view&catid=7&id=18066
I listened to the part 3. I see the Venus Project as a system that suggest some social progress and some precise elements that directly comes from the communism but mixed with other elements that can lead to an oligarchy. I agree a bit with Alric and I don't want a new order, I want no order at all. Peter Joseph has a vision centered on America and very influenced by the political situation of the USA where two political parties that have almost the same program govern the country successively, in turns. The political situation in other countries is not completely different but it is more complicated even in the western world.

Offline Corvinex

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« Reply #23 - Posted 2008-12-31 00:10:06 »

I agree that the transition from any system to this Resource Based Economy would need some sort of political direction. But the ultimate goal would be to break away from any human political system. And just focus on advancing our species with technology, while computers handle meaningless tasks like figuring out how does this resource get to that person that needs it...

This system would have no order, except for the technology that decides how to get you your morning coffee.

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Offline Eli Delventhal

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« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-01-01 00:29:02 »

You guys should read the sci-fi novel The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin, which is the best novel I have ever read and just so happens to address this exact topic.

One thing that's great about the book is that it doesn't mindlessly promote anarchism as government, but it presents a very realistic and interesting fictional society that is run without government. The problems and benefits of such a society are well addressed, and perhaps the most valuable part of it is the visualization of what an anarchic society, coupled with greed and human fallibility, would have to become.

If you're looking for a good book, pick it up.

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #25 - Posted 2009-01-02 10:31:22 »

it presents a very realistic and interesting fictional society that is run without government.
Realism in politics doesn't exist because realism refers to the reality, something that anybody can objectively observe whereas politics refers to ideology, something that is subjective. Speaking about political realism is often a way of "depolitizing" a vision to impose it easily. There is obviously no subjective objectivity. Therefore, any science-fiction novel that deals with any political system should always be considered as a subjective work and its conclusions are then always questionable (and there is a huge difference between "realistic" and "real"). Maybe the book Demonpants suggested is interesting but don't interpret as an history book, the history has to be written, now. Human greed is an argument often used by right-wing people to "bury" any suggestion of another political system to replace the capitalism.

Offline Eli Delventhal

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« Reply #26 - Posted 2009-01-02 18:23:55 »

Uh, I wasn't suggesting it as any sort of history novel. Merely thought-provoking and full of good ideas. An intelligent interpretation of what a functioning anarchic government might be like, as well as solid comparisons between that culture and a capitalistic one.

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #27 - Posted 2009-01-06 11:18:10 »

Uh, I wasn't suggesting it as any sort of history novel. Merely thought-provoking and full of good ideas. An intelligent interpretation of what a functioning anarchic government might be like, as well as solid comparisons between that culture and a capitalistic one.
But you used the term "realistic", that's why I disagreed.

Offline bobjob

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« Reply #28 - Posted 2009-01-06 11:31:40 »

I finally got around to watching the end of the movie.

I personally dont have anything against this movie, but its just a socialist video, instead of "capatalism" its "The moneytary system" and instead of a socialist society as the solution its a "resource system".

Its got alot of interesting ideas for change, and also alot of observations about problems in the current system, but if someone were really commited to "change" for the better, they would first accel using the current system (eg. obtain money/power)  then force there ideals, but ideas like this will never come about unless someone/something forces it. It only takes 1: hitler, lennon, starlin, julias, napolian. Ideals arn't enough, you need an iron fist. This lesson is best shown in Mortal Kombat 3/quakeworld/Mum(Mom for you Americans).

the movie makes me think of animal farm. Just so you know I cried when the horse got sent off to the glue factory.

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Offline ChrisM

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END OF LINE.


« Reply #29 - Posted 2009-01-06 19:54:17 »

Folks,  I know it's an off topic section, but this is straying really far into the political realm.  There are more appropriate places on the web for this kind of discussion, so I am locking this thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

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